What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIRST?
 

As students, and perhaps mentors, graduate, leave, or move on from FIRST, what happens to your attitude towards Gracious Professionalism? Towards competing like crazy and working together at the same time? Towards building community and partnerships?

The world is out there and reality is out there, too. I think there is plenty of room for GP to be a part of that reality, helping to build a stronger world.

What do you think?

Jane

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I would disagree Jane, the real world doesn't care about being GP it cares about being profitable. Being completely blunt about it companies do not sponsor FIRST out of the goodness of their heart, they sponsor FIRST because they get something out of it. Individuals are a different story, some people do it because they want to help. Others do it merely because it is something to keep them from going crazy at work.

My general attitude towards GP was pretty well crushed once I got into the work world. The more I see the more I realize that the world isn't at all like everyone says it is. Professionalism in some work places is a joke at best, I can't tell you how many times I have literally smacked my head against a wall because a customer sends an email,
(by the way, the solution to this problem is usually that THEY did something stupid such as unplug their computer)

I guess what I am trying to say is that FIRST makes us excited to be engineers and get out there and do some good, then the real world gets a hold of us and hits us with the rock of reality until we realized that in the end our life will be an endless series of meetings, changing requirements, changing deadlines, and dealing with our darling customers (since this is the internet and you cannot hear the sarcasm I must assure that it is there, always remember, your customer is an idiot)

It would be great if the real world were more like FIRST, competitors helping each other out, but it won't happen. No, it isn't just unlikely, it plain out WON'T EVER happen. Additionally, if it did happen we, the consumers, would be hurt. Capitalism only works because competition forces companies to innovate and drives prices lower, if companies all work together and help each other they have no reason to innovate or undercut each others prices. The basis of our modern economy is built on cutthroat tactics and being jerks to each other.

Sorry for the rant but frankly students should know that the real world is nothing like FIRST.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I treat people the way I wish to be treated for the most part (there are times when a swift kick in the butt is the most effective means to get the job done). I was that way before I joined FIRST. I will be that way when I leave FIRST (if that ever happens). Life isn't just about what you do or don't do or what does or does not happen to you but also how you choose to respond to the things going on around you.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

That's not the whole story. There are many examples of companies with "multiple bottom lines" where profit is only one of the goals. Ben & Jerry's comes to mind immediately. There are also many examples of groups being set up to promote cooperation, where profit is an explicit non-goal -- the entire concept of a not-for-profit organization, for example.

It won't necessarily happen on its own, or due to Adam Smith's "invisible hand". But when people in power have experience with the global optimum that can be achieved when selfish local maxima are recognized as not being the best possible outcome, it can -- and does -- happen.

FIRST aims to change that. People tend to act to meet expectations. Telling them it is an impossible target is counterproductive.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Boy Andrew, you must have had some bad experiences.

The goal of FIRST is to CHANGE the society that we are in. If you thought that when you reached the real world that everything would be roses then we mislead you. What FIRST wants is that you will be prepared and shown a different way to deal with issues and start to implement were you can. Fill the bucket 1 drop at a time. Will it be easy? NOPE!!! Will you get discouraged? YEP!!! Can you make a difference? Well that one is up to you.

As for working together in the real world and showing GP, yes it is there and can be done. With my job I work with different suppliers and different competition. In both cases things that I have learned in FIRST have allowed me to approach things differently and every time I have gotten better results than those that met with confrontation. The end result every time should be that you (your company) look good without tearing the others down. By doing this GP wins out. The result may not be that you win or get your way BUT people see a positive win-win type of person that they will want representing them.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I believe the "real world" is roughly 20% more "jadedness-inducing" than you allow it to be. The obvious solution is to only allow the real world to have negative jade induction coefficients.

I will admit that it takes a lot of effort to stay positive, and that I do not always succeed. It is amazing how some people/groups public and private faces differ. However, it is even more amazing and reinvigorating to meet the rare person that is GP without trying to be. I met many people while helping with the new control system that I owe my sanity to.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

There are days when I come home from work and am absolutely depressed by how jaded, profit-oriented, and sometimes even dishonest life in real world industry can be. Most businesses (but certainly not all, as Alan pointed out) have a single objective - to make money and stay in business.

Still, I have to challenge the assertion that GP and capitalism are mutually exclusive. Indeed, "greedy" local optimization of profit is often detrimental to the long term sustainability of a business. I cite the following experiences I've had working for a large defense contractor:

1. Many (as a matter of fact, almost all) of our projects are orchestrated by teams of multiple different companies working together. Nobody sells a complete fighter jet package to the US Government. One company makes the avionics, one does the fuselage, one does the engine, etc. Simply put, your competitor one week may be your teammate the next. In this way, the real world is much like FIRST. And if your company is a pain in the butt to deal with, word will get around.

2. The Internet, Digg, Reddit, Twitter, Consumerist, etc., are increasing the visibility of corporate actions to ordinary citizens. Every time a large company changes a policy that screws its customers, people now hear about it. Likewise, truly charitable acts by companies get a lot more publicity now than they have in the past.

3. Technology is a *very* competitive field. There are tons of engineers out there, but the very best ones are in high demand. Again, word gets around. Jobs where people work 60 hours a week in meeting rooms, filling out paperwork, and dealing with mind-numbing minutiae won't attract the very best, at least not for long. Google is a good example - through their revolutionary work culture, they have managed to lure talent away from the warehouses filled with cubicles, despite somewhat smaller paychecks.

It sounds like Andrew works at a place that has fallen into the trap of greedy profit mongering over all else. But more and more work places - mine, fortunately, included - have realized that there is so much more. Yes, you will all have to sit through boring meetings, and there are some people at every workplace who are about as un-GP as you can get, but if you are able to see past these things and control the things that you can control (i.e. your own attitude towards work), then most people will find that our world is one that you can live in.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I think this is actually a good example of why gracious professionalism is so important. The way frustrating situations like these are handled can speak volumes about a person, and can have a profound effect on how interactions with said person are handled in the future. If your interactions in "the real world" are always both gracious and professional, you will eventually make a name for yourself as a respectable person who should be treated accordingly. If the people you are interacting with don't catch on and lack professionalism, they will not come to be known as reputable individuals/companies, and this reputation will begin to affect them as well.

I am still fairly young, so I am often initially greeted by disbelief and disdain from people in "the real world". I am organizing MIT's Career Fair, which entails a lot of interactions with companies in the business world, so this has come up a lot recently. Student-run career fairs, especially of the size of MIT's Career Fair, are virtually nonexistent, so people tend not to take us seriously at first. Coupled with the anonymity of the internet, I get a lot of demands, complaints, and reactions with an attitude along the lines of "pfft, you're 18, I've been working in HR since before you were born, what could you possibly know?"

I get dozens of emails daily from people who seem to be unable to read, count, follow basic instructions, or work with standard modern office technology, and it is incredibly frustrating. Sometimes I feel like tearing my hair out, but I always reply politely and professionally and help people work through the issues they've encountered. After seeing my responses and demeanor, the attitude of the other party towards me typically changes to be much more respectful, which helps our interactions significantly. Similarly, when company representatives initially treat me with respect and understanding, I am much more likely to grant them favors. It works the other way, too- most companies do not turn a blind eye towards blatantly rude and unprofessional staff. We worked with a VP of HR earlier this summer who constantly acted childish and unprofessional, so we eventually moved our negotiations directly to the CEO. When he found out about her behavior through some of her emails and phone calls, she was fired.

I think most people do care about gracious professionalism in the workplace, though they may not call it by that name. It is a valuable force which can lead to better interactions and relationships with partners and competitors alike, and most people do seem to recognize that, at least in my experience.

Jane, thank you for another interesting topic to reflect on.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Just follow the mantra of the future.

"Be excellent to everyone"

There's a reason the future depicted in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure is a nice place. I have found in my life that if you treat people with respect, they will be more likely to respect you and help you. There's a reason customer service reps speak calmly and call you m'am and sir on the phone; they want to do thier job the best they can.

Act with respect toward everyone in your goings on, even if others do not do the same. At the very least, I've found that most people are very uncomfortable being agressive to a laid-back person.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I'd estimate that 90% of what I do is not gracious at all, but rather more awkward than anything. Got a puppy in June ... I had an idea but really didn't understand what I was getting into, and still haven't had a full night's sleep since I got him. Started a new project in January ... it's been one tumble after another at work and it's a miracle I've even solved a single problem. I'm starting my Master's degree in 2 weeks, yet have no clue how I'm going to manage it all. So I've been many things this year, but gracious hasn't been at the forefront. It's been downright awkward, hard, and confusing at points. Professionalism occurs only when necessary (I'm a pretty mellow guy...).

It is the other 10% of the time that things truly shine, and is when I've learned to embrace the one quote I'll never forget: "You cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that created it". In the real world it seems that companies who forget that eventually go under; go figure they also usually lack any sort of public grace or professionalism. Just stay out of the way so you don't get dragged down too.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I think that this is exactly what we're all supposed to be doing. If we aren't producing students and adults who have the courage to live the ideals set forth by our founders in the larger world, then we have failed. No matter how cool the robots are.

Andrew, you are right. That's why we must produce the folks who will act with grace and integrity, despite the total lack of it in others. If we don't send forward the folks who are courageous enough to do the right thing in the face of adversity, perhaps no one else will.

my .02.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

It's easy to think FIRST simply teaches Gracious Professionalism. However, I think it is important to recognize that FIRST has gone out of its way to design a competition that Rewards GP. FIRST introduced alliances so that even if you happen to care a lot about winning, it's still in your best interest to help others. FIRST has made clear to everyone that its highest honor goes to the team that most effectively spreads interest in math and science in its community. FIRST has created a situation where the incentives of the competition align with the ideals of GP. I think this is the difference many try to grapple with when they leave FIRST and go into the real world. Society at large does not reward GP-like behavior as much, and sometimes, it can feel like a burden. The incentives to get ahead may not align with their idealism.
FIRST definitely has a positive influence on nearly all who are involved. It does a great deal to help kids see the value in maintaining your integrity. However, if you really want to talk seriously about changing the world, you can't avoid considering what incentives the system provides. Some may be able to maintain GP in an apparent zero-sum environment, but many will not. We are all human after all.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Okay, my turn to ramble. Seriously though, I believe this story is worth the read to anyone that is interested in exploring the ideas of this thread.

I have been in the customer service business for 4 years as a cashier and 2 years as a tutor. This is not engineering. I know that. But I deal with the same type of customers as everyone else. I have people who want to take their dog in the grocery store, the person that can't read a sign, and others that simply like to be rude to the cashier.

I have grown a reputation at the store over the years. I have customers that specifically come through my line. I am also the cashier that the managers like to send annoying customers to. Because I am good with them. I am always polite and respectful to the customer. I make polite conversation and always make sure I charge the fair price. If I know a way they can save some money, I suggest it and even run to switch their items. I make sure every customer that needs help to their car gets it. And always make sure the carryout(some may know them as bag boys) is doing their job properly. I would like to believe I have worked every day at that store graciously and with utmost professionalism. The customers know this and are always sure to tell me that they appreciate it. The other day I had a customer call the store to compliment my work. I have 7 days left at that work. And I'm going to really miss the place. I can honestly say every memory I have of the place is positive and I wish I could work there for years to come.

The moral of this story: A healthy respect for the customer, dedication to your job, and a positive outlook can make even the most trivial and monotonous job into a wonderful experience.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Andrew is right, competition is the lubrication that keeps our economy and industries moving forward. If you remove this lubrication, the system will seize up and become stagnant. Do competitive practices in the business world preclude graciously professional behaviour? In my mind absolutely not. A few years ago I had the opportunity to listen to FIRST Chairman John Abele give a speech to a group of corporate executives on the topic of competitive business practices. John said: (I'm paraphrasing this from memory) "There are two ways to compete in this world, you can drag your competitors down, or you can rise above them. Which is better for the world in the long run?". It is this attitude that I carry with me in my dealings in the work world. I am always going to be a ferocious competitor, but that doesn't mean I'm going to behave in shady or underhanded manners. I make it my mission to always aim to rise above competitors as opposed to partaking in acts that are not gracious or professional in an effort to drag my competitors down. It may sound trite, but I know that at the end of the day I sleep better knowing that I've maintained my integrity.

In my mind John Abele is the best role model we have in FIRST. He has proven that being successful in the ultra-competive business world and being a gracious professional are not mutually exclusive. If we each took a page out of his book, we could go a long way in making the world a more palatable, yet a still progressive and productive place.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Being fresh out of FIRST, I feel that GP has helped me a lot since I got to college. In interviews I always try to stress the concept and how I can use it to my advantage while doing the job. I personally say that this has helped me get two small jobs on campus: dorm desk attendant, and dodge ball ref.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

GP works both ways. If you are the customer, being a GP to the person helping you will make it easier for them to do their job.


Its up to us to set the example. Dean's told us several times that "the world is a mess". FIRST is one powerful force working to overcome that mess. But, just like the FIRST contests, it is challenging (not always easy).

Just don't give up! The FIRST vision of the future is better than just doing more of the same. Look what (as Woodie Flowers called it) "greedy selfishness" got us -- a world-wide recession.

So when someone displays behavior below what we would call GP, rise above it and display your GP to them. You'll be doing your part to change the world for the better. Plus if you do, you'll never regret your own behavior.

KHall, mentor
Team 2171
Crown Point Robodogs.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Amen. I've had the privilege of sharing a meal and a short walk with Mr. Abele at the 2006 (I think) Philly Regional judges dinner. He's perhaps the most amazing person I have ever met. I had never been face to face in a one-on-one manner with him before, but he was able to recall the work of my old team, 103 from when we were honored with the CA in 2003 and other things about me, personally, from my work as a Senior Mentor at that time. Somehow, in his busy life, he was able to take the time to get to know this information in a fair amount of detail and recall it on a moment's notice, which made me realize how much he must know about many others as well. I'm 100 percent positive it was that attention to detail, and to individual people, that has set him apart in all that he's done. A remarkable human being and an example we should all aspire to emulate - no matter how many naysayers surround us every day.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Is it possible to spotlight an entire thread?

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Here's a few thoughts that were behind the question -

For a few years now, I've been concerned about the cynicism of young mentors who have been through the FIRST program. I am concerned (to a lesser degree) - by the cynicism in college age students in general - but when one attaches the label, mentor, to their name, then I naturally begin to think about how cynicism, bitterness, and even ugly attitudes can affect the younger students that they mentor or say that they do. Not all college students or college mentors are cynical, bitter, or ugly but there are enough that I have had concerns. So I've wondered what happened to the attitude towards GP. Was it never there or did it disappear over time or as the students became mentors?

FRC, FTC, and FLL offer opportunities for students to work with adults in areas of problem solving, working towards mutual goals, developing strategies for working together as a team, and producing a product. All of these areas in which students are mentored can be and are applied in real world environments. What is different is the added expectation that is called Gracious Professionalism. It can be a very real expectation that can become a very real part of the team make-up, philosophy, reputation, and commitment. As students grow up through that, literally and figuratively, it can help shape their outlook and their perspectives and help them design the path they will choose to walk, follow, or create in their career and in their life. By designing their path mindfully - they bring opportunity for Gracious Professionalism to enter into areas, places, environments where it has not been seen or noticed before. Young people love to have heroes, idols, and rock stars in their lives and they admire college mentors. There's a lot of power there that can influence, affect, impact, change, and encourage. In positive or negative ways. College age students are busy creating and determining their path and that's fine and dandy. When they add the word, mentor, to that, there is a responsibility that goes with it. What I've ended up with in my thinking is that it only takes the light of one candle to illuminate darkness, simply by entering that space. When many lights are added, the space glows and shines brightly. There's nothing false or fake about that.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I have had to opportunity to talk to John one on one two or three times. Not only is he a FIRST guy, he is a 1st class guy. A fine gentleman indeed. We could all take a page from his book !!! John is proof that you can be a fine gentleman and a fine businessman at the same time.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I honestly see this statement as a bit surprising. I guess I've just had a completely different experience with college. As a college student, I would like to be able to speak on behalf of a good percent of us. We aren't cynical or bitter or ugly. We are beat down daily by a massive work load. We survive on less money then most think possible. Every test is trying and the bills can be an aweful blow. But my experience is that in hardship, is when the human spirit really shines. I like to think of a song they sing at MIT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecQ2zJqrFw

It's a cheery tune from some tortured souls. I honestly can't say I've met a cynical college student. We just have too much fun and are too busy for cynicism.

Jane, I certainly don't doubt things may be different in the area you've seen. I just can't see this being as widespread as your post would suggest. I just would like to ask teams to give college students a trial run and not dismiss them as being cynical. Some may be, but the vast majority aren't. And we can certainly add a bit to the team dynamic. At least, I'd like to think we can.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Yup.

And college mentors do certainly add a bit to the team dynamic.

What I'm wondering about is the disconnect that does happen with some college mentors. Here's the deal - if high school students (and younger) are exposed to the talents, ideas, hands-on applications of engineers and other technical and professional mentors and they are inspired by what they observe, participate in, experience in FIRST - then how does a disconnect happen to the point where Gracious Professionalism is no longer part of their attitude when approaching real life problems and situations? If there is a disconnect then what is causing it and why? Is its potential impact not valid or just temporarily put on hold while college happens? Because if college mentors dismiss it or diss it, then I think there is a disconnect somewhere, even if it is just a few.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I think part of the disconnect can occur on days when the college student is having a particularly rough day/week (Midterms and Finals come to mind) Another portion could be a very pessimistic view of their future, in engineering many people who have a decade of experience cannot get a job right now, what chance do I have?

Personally I make a point not to let my personal pessimism and cynicism show to a student until I trust that they know me well enough to see I am having a bad day.

As for what can be done to correct a disconnect, should it be discovered in college age students? The simple approach would be to remind engineers that it isn't always just the high schoolers who occasionally need inspiration, college students and fellow mentors often need just as much inspiration from time to time.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Thanks for the insight, Andrew. I, personally, have felt that one of the groups that is overlooked but that continues to need support and mentoring, is the college age group. The idea that high school students are to be inspired and encouraged to move into careers in science and technology is a great idea but what happens after they graduate? Are they totally on their own now? What is the plan? Is there one? Do they just strike out on their own, loaded up with information, know-how, experience/experiences that many high school graduates lack, but still need guidance and training in how to apply all of that? Not everyone does need support or encouragement but it would seem to me that there is a gap of some kind: well, we got you through elementary school, middle school, and high school - and hey, guess what - the real world is out there - go forth. When in actuality - college age students need the support and encouragement and even perhaps some how-to's in how to apply what they've gained and learned while participating in FIRST as they transition to adulthood and real world demands.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I can vouch for Andrew when he says he doesn't let any cynicism and pessimism transfer over to a student. There are times when we talk as friends and joke around about things like this, but then the most important times are when he says "I'm telling you this as a mentor," no matter what it is, those moments mean a lot.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

GP is a great concept that needs to be taught to the students. You can not expect them to just pick it up through the season. We had a student that talked negative and like most young kids they think its cool to be negative, adults also do the negative thing. We had to teach the student how to be gracious and professional. When ever the student started to speak negative we would correct him/her. By the end of the season this student had a whole different positive attitude that was great to work with. If you are a naturally negative person you have to work at GP and learn it but it can be done and it will reward you more than you think. If you’re a collage student going into a negative work atmosphere you will have to work extra hard using GP and do your job to the best of your ability. Doing so will make you stand out in the crowd and help elevate you above the others. Not all work places are cut throat, and if they are they usually will not last.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

As a business owner and FIRST support/coach/mentor/college student (and anything else you want to throw into the mix!) GP is extremely import in many different aspects.

1. As a business owner for the past 17 years, I will tell you I am in business for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only. To make money. Pure and simple. That may be tough for some to understand but if you aren't making money then there is no job. I enjoy having competition, it is a game. Who will win the contract, it is the thrill of the game! if I'm not making money, you don't have a job!

2. I deal with pain in the butt customers on a daily basis. In my head I tell myself 'poor planning on your part doesn't make for an emergency on my part". However if I was to say that I would be out of business. I grit my teeth and put a smile on my face and tell the customer "not a problem, we can take of anything'!

3. As a coach/mentor to 2 FIRST Teams, it is my job to teach kids (and some parents) that GP is of the utmost importance. Nothing will get built without it. We may not like the person we have to work with but you will put the perverbal smile on your face and deal with it. I had 2 girls who came from different areas in life. 1 decided to be somewhat aggressive verbally only because the other was made safety captain. She decided she wasn't going to follow the safety rules. Before all was said and done the 2 became very good friends. We had to teach her that this is how to be GP.

4. Oh college students, I have a new found sympathy for you! Having to work, have a ton of homework placed on you and oh those mid terms and finals! Yes you deserve kudos and a huge pat on the back. At age 46 I decided it was time for me to go to college for the first time. I graduated in just a few months but now I am looking towards getting a master's. You have to use GP just to get by. Those professors aren't going to give you the time of the day without it. If I was to approach a professor with an attitude i am sure it is somehow going to reflect on my grade.

Don't give up on others. I believe in killing grumps with a smile!

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

What is it?

This is something you do not learn. This value is in all of us and some bring it out gradually, some hide it and most it's always apparent. Parents encourage it, Faculty advisors request it and mentors have a means to provide it and inspire it. It is not just how you talk to somebody, it is how you listen to them, and it’s not just how you treat them and its how you like to be treated at the worst time of your life. In my team, I expect it! Team’s talk to each other negatively about another and talk to other’s who are friendly with that team positively, this is not gracious. When you hear things and you allow others to do this, this is not gracious. Just because they cannot hear, what you have said; does not mean that you are gracious. If you speak negatively about another or some team and it is about facts. Would this be a violation of Gracious Professionalism? I do not think it would be if it only about the facts, it is only when you add innuendos and opinions, then this becomes un-gracious

I have witness teams speak negatively about themselves and other teams while they were in the shadows. What they stated had been un-Gracious. In these events I try to speak up you never know who is watching or listening. Some of the teams speaking negatively who were doing the talking have won the most prestigious awards in FIRST and they were not acting in the spirit of Gracious Professionalism. This just tells me that FIRST is losing its roots.

I remember the days when all teams were gracious and we all help each other.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Posting a rant about how Gracious Professionalism will never find its way into "the real world" on a public forum visited by hundreds, if not thousands of high school FIRSTers hardly seems in line with preventing the transfer of any cynicism and pessimism into students.


That said, preventing the transfer of any cynicism and pessimism seems an awful lot like censoring, and no one likes to be censored. Healthy debate is always good, and that seems to be what we have here.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

You would prefer I had lied and said that the real world was full of roses and bunnies and rainbows? I could do that but I felt it was more important to let the students know the real world doesn't want GP, it wants profit. GP can't be gently put into the real world. I believe my posts accurately reflects my views of the real world. Additionally it helped spur discussion, without someone taking an opposite side this discussion would quickly have ended.

As a mentor I do try my best, I am only human, we all fail sometimes, my rant was partially fueled by my frustrations at school and work, working in this sort of economy as a CoOp is not a pleasant experience. As such many of us are quite stressed and more and more people are cynical about our futures. I believe it is in our best interests not to hide our views of reality from our students, to do that would be dishonest and against our goals. Only by presenting the cold hard stuff of reality can we be sure our students are adequately informed to choose engineering as a major.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I wanted to throw in an opinion I've had for a long time about "gracious professionalism" and how its viewed on here by many as "a way to live by" and other 'fluffy' things like that. It bothers me when people criticize others for not being "gp" about something based on how they view what "gp" is.

I don't view gracious professionalism itself as something to live by or to consider in everyday life. I believe in friendly competition, yes, but I find it amusing when another person is judged by his/her peers for what they are doing. Funny thing is who I'll be quoting on this.


I preferred the days before I joined FIRST because I didn't know the muddled, eschewed, and obfuscated meanings and perceptions of this concept people call Gracious Professionalism. I like being gracious, I like being professional, but when it comes to how I act in the real world, I prefer to just consider myself an ethical and moral person. These two words, same as gracious professionalism, have their own and different meaning for me than others may perceive them.

So one thing I would like to ask of the posters on here: Do you find yourself judging the ethics or morals of another person or peer? If so, I view that as you judging someone's "level" of gracious professionalism.

And Mr. Rizzo, I respectfully disagree. I do not believe FIRST is growing apart from its roots. I do believe it is growing though, its growing in a way that's accepted by the mindsets of OUR generation. The way I perceive FIRST to be is a great organization that is successfully completing the IRST part of its name; however, nowhere in that name are the letters G and P. Perhaps when we teach our students about GP, we should help them understand what it is by using simple, well known, and well lived terms such as moral fiber, respect, ethics, and sportsmanship. I don't see a need for students to try to understand the term GP because it gets convoluted and changed by every person who hears about it, thus, there's nothing definitive to teach them.

(This is all my view, not my teams)

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

It doesn't have to be convoluted.

From the FIRST website:

http://www.usfirst.org/who/content.aspx?id=36

Let's not fight, please. Discuss yes, fight no. Please. :)

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

My point was how it gets convoluted and defined differently by many people, even on these forums, and then they judge others or comments of others based on their own definition.

And I was not starting a fight, I kept my post calm (doesn't transfer in text?):D

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

DISCLAIMER: I dissected this post and numbered them because I want to highlight a few points and discuss them individually. They are not in the context that they were wrote in originally, however I will be speaking with regards to the original post. The quote above is only to show which points I am referring to. If you want to read their context be sure to refer to the post it was quoted from.

Now, onto my discussion.

On point number one, GP isn't being put gently into the real world. The approach FIRST uses is a bit more forceful then that. If they thought it was something to be gentle with, they would have made it a suggestion rather then a basis for awards.

Secondly, thanks for presenting a more bitter view then most. Without it, we would not be able to discuss. It's kind of like the one hand clapping. If only one side talks, there isn't a conversation.

Third point. As I've read this post, I've noticed alot of people use the phrase "only human". This is a common thought that I've heard many times that I honestly don't agree with. This can be used for any short fall without many people objecting. I just don't see any of us as "only human". I know I'm human. And with that comes a great amount of ability. Look at the things we have accomplished and try and say they are "only human". Perhaps if the word "only" were removed it would be more fitting. We are human. No more or less then Isaac Newton or Mohatma Ghandi. If we fall short of the greatness they achieved, it has more to do with who we are then what we are. I aspire to no such greatness, I just go out and do my best. I will blame my failures on my ill preparations, my lack of dedication, or my circumstances. But I will never use the term "I'm only human" because it seems to belittle what it means to be human and the things a human can achieve. I am in no way trying to single out Andrew on this, but am saying this to all who have used this phrase or thought it. Think about it before you use it again, for it is mighty strong words to be used as an excuse.

Fourth point. (sorry for the rant on three, just been thinking about that one for a while) I would like to suggest the power of placebo. People tend to see what they expect to see. If you tell people how terrible things are ALL the time, the world will seem terrible to them. If you tell them how great things are ALL the time, they might believe you and the world might seem great. However, in the second instance it is more likely they will see a few bad things and be disappointed and feel betrayed. I would like to suggest we present the world as mostly positive and discuss the negative sides when they actually present themselves. With this approach, maybe they will actually see the good and the bad. Afterall, it is our job to inform. That means a unbiased view of the world. Show them the fun of engineering and the hardship that goes with it. This is the only way to truly inform. If you try to give a biased view in either positive or negative light, you are doing a disservice to the students.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I recall discussing the attitude of several new employees at work, "Oh, he's still young and not disallusioned yet. He'll learn." And yes, we all learn, and we all become somewhat disillusioned. But that's because for the most part we we have too high of an illusion in the first place. Most of us aren't going to "change the world".

That sounds cynical, but it really isn't. I prefer realistic. And I would submit that most people who do end up being in a position to change the world don't start out that way, and don't start out trying to be that way.

But being disallusioned by the world doesn't mean we have to be disallusioned about ourselves. We do what we can in our part of the world. Who knows, maybe your little assignment will turn out to be something that, taken together with a lot of other little assignments, will change the world. All along the way you can act in a professional manner, getting your job done, meeting your deadlines, producing your own quality work. And if you can be gracious about it, not complaining about your workload, not carping at the faults of others, then you will have achieved your own GP.

Now, to go off on a tangent - Shouldn't FIRST's own website show the (tm) symbol for "Gracious Professionalism" and "Coopertition"?

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

"It has been my experience that most folks are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." - Abraham Lincoln

The world is a terrible, terrible place. One can hardly read the news without finding innumerable stories of suffering, human and otherwise, often at the hands of other humans. It's a dog-eat-dog world, only the strong survive, the things that come to those who wait were left by those who got there first.

The world is a wonderful, wonderful place. One can hardly step outside without being inspired and awed by the natural beauty that surrounds us all. It is full of compassion, goodwill, and altruism.

Both arguments are certainly valid, and they are certainly not mutually exclusive. This is a complicated world, made more complicated by the existence of multiple complicated societies from many perspectives - geographical, racial, religious, business, socioeconomic...

The glass is both half full and half empty.

Where does that leave us? Nowhere in the FIRST Values does it discuss changing society, changing the outlook of others, making the world a better place. What it does say is one can "enjoy the satisfaction of knowing one has acted with integrity and sensitivity."

Pessimism and optimism are both contagious. If FIRST alumni saturate the marketplace and the world, and bring GP to the masses, great. If not, that's fine too. But every person who practices gracious professionalism daily and at every level can enjoy that satisfaction, and going back to Mr. Lincoln, would go a long way toward happiness.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

If Gracious Professionalism is not understood, valued, and introduced to others as FIRST alumni venture forth in achieving their educational and career goals, working through hard and difficult times as they move forward - then what's the point? Business attitudes remain status quo, real world problem solving remains status quo, and the FIRST competition becomes like every other competition. A competition. There is no reason for teams to share, engineers to share, the Chairman's Award to be prized and coveted.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

To tell the truth, there is a bit of GP at my work. Admittedly, I work in a place where a) we can be under a lot of stress and b) we're always interacting with the public. We have to at least act like we like to see the customers.

I've been seeing a lot of references made to point of view affecting life, and I'd like to offer this story:
The old man was on to something--how you see things goes with you, and affects everything. That's why first impressions (and good reputations) are so important. If you have the right attitude, you can get a better perspective on life.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

There seems to be a common misperception here, that GP does not exist in the business world. I'm surprised that no one has brought this up yet, but what about all of the numerous engineering societies in existence (SAE, IEEE, and SME just to name a few)? An integral part of their mission is for engineers to come together and share knowledge about common issues or develop standards, with the full blessing of their respective companies. If you would like to see this in action, plan on attending the SAE World Congress in Detoit next April.

Scott

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Hello all, definitely have a few cents to put in here:

I have worked in retail for ~4 years now, and faced a wide variety of customers from an equally wide variety of cultural backgrounds. This is not to forget I was in robotics as a student for 4, and more or less an adviser/local team volunteer while I was hitting the books the first year of college; helping a recall campaign (spearheaded by someone who underestimated the uphill battle they were getting into looking back on it, thought passion would work just fine) in the district for the second.

Professionalism in any form is an exploitable tool. If that statement does not say "I am a natural cynic" let me lay out what formulates this, based off of real examples:

1.) Team X's sponsor (with $$$) wants Y event to go Z way. Team X's coach gets this memo. The Z way is a bit counter-productive to the ultimate goal of some experience A being granted to X's members. Coach, being the professional he/she is, has some options.
a.) Play along with this full steam. Experience A is only accomplished by the students who are literally starving for it or find a backroute.
b.) Negotiate (with caution, often requires persistence/gut and knowledge of when to back down). Experience A has a better chance of being accessible to all members. Members, and overall team, are happier (hopefully) than they would have been.

2.) Customer comes up to counter or me, wants B done. B requires C. One of many things can occur here, a few listed below.
a.) C was at one time never required. I may have, or may not know this simply by being employed for D years (notice how they either move experienced people... maybe let go of them. Then of course there is new employment. This, as far as I can tell, is a great (not necessarily good) mechanism). In either case, customer is a little uncomfortable about this, and may either go along or find an alternative option.
b.) Customer had made a phone call regarding step C. Customer service personnel on the phone, disregarding what it says both on slip or site E regarding step C says do action F in store to the customer before they arrive, which I and practically all of management are unequipped to do EFFICIENTLY (I mean, we can do it, but it will take a while to figure it out, since we RARELY ever do this, and no one has had good training on how to override C). Outcome varies.
c.) C just might require a bit of time. Considering all of the retail world promises fast service, there is a bit of an undercurrent of 'instant gratification' that eats away happy points I'll call it. I do what I need to do as quick as humanely possible, and pray the customer leaves satisfied, regardless of time consumed.

3.) Customer comes up to counter, I end up asking "How's it going?" twice or three times, instead of just once. I try to engage in some short conversation other than the usual pitching. Both things: somewhat to no avail. I fully understand that I am there to do business, work, my job, be a cog for the retail machine. But this is a human machine I constantly think to myself, where is the social aspect to this? Where is the life in it, the spirit that drives it? Somedays I just wish I could tell the customer to "BREATHE" for once without much risk. "You made it, you will get what you need to done. Just relax and let me handle it. I know this machine well."

Looking at just this (only a part btw), it is easy to build up layers of cynicism and get a bit depressed over it. The key though, at least from my perspective at this point in life, is to realize that in all likelihood, fighting these issues will not acquire the desirable goal, and progress in these areas is a bit of a myth in the short term. You must deal with this, and crack a smile somehow. Thank you Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Craig Ferguson (It's a Great Day For America Everybody!!!), the Wait Wait Don't Tell Me cast, Jay Leno, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, MetaFilter, Dilbert, XKCD, faith in God, and many many more for giving the tools to do this on a regular basis. Only then will cynicism die (Courage the Cowardly Dog comes to mind...).

Admittedly, cynicism consumed me for a short while as I drilled through community college and still managed to crank out A grades on 18, 19, and 15+Lots of reading credit hour loads. This summer, I have been working hard to develop an attitude that can deal with this residual cynicism, to a good bit of success. I still have some facts and cynical myths to sort out, but this battle is becoming close to done and over with. Slowly but surely the tin foil hat is coming off and being put in a melting pot.

Slowly, but surely, the world is looking a bit better. Slowly, but surely, I am developing a drive that can carry me and eventually those I come into contact with to do good great things. Slowly, but surely, Gracious Professionalism is coming back into view, with the disconnect being casted away along with the cynicism and events that led to it pass away.

Slowly, but surely, so long as I do not lose focus and will, the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi becomes functional and meaningful, and somewhat of a definition of GP.

Jane, I hope I was not too long winded, and I hope I gave you an answer to your question: my attitude towards Gracious Professional is a progressing development encapsulated here. Peace. :cool:

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Gary, I thought about this one for a while... and at first the very first part rang very true. I've heard it many times as well. Maybe even uttered it once or twice. I've seen the political ways of this world, I've even seen the political ploys of FIRST... we all feel disallusioned at one point or another.

But Im also a big proponent of that this world is what you make of it. Are there days where I can't get myself to feel the world is positive? Yup. But overall, I hope that I am making this world all that I can.

Now for the part "most of us aren't going to change the world". I've said it before and said it again... when I graduated high school, my goal in starting 229 was just simply "to inspire just one student the way I had been inspired". 11 years and two teams later, I'm in awe of how many kids 229 and 1511 have inspired. And I will be a little selfish here... YUP - I did that! My one little goal, pushing past the "college mentors dont know enough", is what founded 229 and then 1511. I would like to think that this "changed the world" even just a little, for the better. I could ramble on about individual student stories, but many of those are in other threads. I think we have to WANT to change the world and BELIEVE that we can change the world for anything to work.

Are we going to completely change the culture overnight? NO. Are we going to make businessess not be greedy? NO. Will things someday not revolve around money and have pretty pink roses everywhere? Heck no.

But to go back to the original topic... my answer to the solution is in the way I run my team. I dont disallusion them. I dont pretend that everything is and should be GP all the time. I often tell them the cold hard facts. I tell them about the politics inherant in corporate culture, politics in FIRST, politics in the school system etc. I try to shield them from having to deal with it, but I let them see the reality. I hope by doing that they will have realistic expectations of the world and realize that if they really WANT to see a change, it is COMPLETELY up to them.

But the idea for change HAS to be realistic. Plain and simple companies have to make profit. But several companies have shown us that they can have fun doing it and create a great culture where their employees can be open and honest, and can help create the culture (which usually adhere's to GP). Is every engineering business like that?? HECK NO. Are 50% of them like that?? I Highly doubt it. But its up to us to start the wave... if an entire generation comes in, believing that they can make money AND be graciously professional, and they do NOT allow themselves to become jaded and cynical, pushing past all the current politics.. eventually, when they become managers, they will be able to instill that culture... and we will have succeeded.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

No! I would say you did the right thing! I was trying to say that I think preventing pessimism from creeping into students would be a pointless endeavor.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I believe that the effectiveness of what we call GP (it goes by other names outside of FRC) cannot be judged early in one's life. It's a much longer-term investment, yet offers surprisingly high returns. Just like 401(k) plans, the important thing is to keep making contributions even when it seems there's no reward for it.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

GP is something used by people to shut up others or to do un-GP things themselves. If you are an $@#$@#$@# you either a.) are enough of one and become successful (Jim Cramer model) b.) people call you out and don't trust you, and you are your own worst enemy.

GP isn't a lie nor is it the truth, GP is a handy slogan and montra that has turned into a religion, and it shouldn't be. If you are wondering and worrying about GP, then something is wrong. (note xkcd comic, replace voting machine and antivirus with FIRST and GP)

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

No offense, and not to argue... but this post seems to represent EXACTLY what Jane was talking about... From your profile Joe, you are likely just past college (or maybe a grad student?)... but it seems to be exactly what Jane was asking or concerned about in her initial post.

Can you ellaborate on what causes you to believe this? What about GP has caused you to be so jaded?

Personally I will agree that *sometimes* GP is taken to an extreme, but I have to say that is a severe minority of the time... overall I think it was a very intriguing way for FIRST to start to try to change the culture, and when used correctly and not overdone, it is a great slogan... not something to worship or throw in people's faces, but a great way to explain how FIRST is different and more of what its about.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I don't necessarily think something is wrong if I'm wondering about Gracious Professionalism, Joe. It doesn't bother me a bit that I enjoy thinking about the goals and mission of FIRST as I understand them to be. Gracious Professionalism is a part of that. Developing professional partnerships on a global basis yet treating each other with kindness and grace, even while being competitive - I see nothing wrong with wonder-ing about that, being inspired by that, and thinking about the efforts that FIRST teams put into inspiring students and the general public/communities. But as students graduate, move on, leave FIRST (or seem to), does anything stick? That's what I'm wondering about in this thread.
--
Happy Birthday, Joe.

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

Oooo please. You can have gracious professionalism which then in turn helps you profit. I had a pump that was being repaired for $2,000. It is an expensive pump at that. The person repairing the pump noticed that something unusual happened to it. A person traveled all the way to our laboratory to help us figure out what damaged the pump. Did the company have to do that? No. Did they earn my trust and appreciation for helping correct a problem that no one knew existed? Yes. I probably ended up scaring the guy because I was really happy to know of a problem involving a million dollar instrument that I was not aware of. Will I shop there again for my pumping needs? Yes. Will I know that they have my best interests? Yes.
Bah.... That is only because you gave up. The world is a big place. Huge in fact. Its easy to change the world in some way. Will you end up becoming famous? Hell no.

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Corollary - And make sure you don't invest all your 401(k) contributions in only your "employer's company" (i.e. team). Spread a decent amount of those contributions around to other "companies" you feel can yield big returns one day.

This is true on both literal and figurative levels. ;)

Re: What Happens To Your Attitude Towards Gracious Professionalism When You Leave FIR
 

I'm GP diversified. Are you?