Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Due to the bad economy and major budget shortfalls, the DOE, State, and our Union agreed to furloughs that essentially creates at least 1 day/week off (due to holiday or furlough) for the remainder of our school year.

Our teachers need to now ratify the contract in order for it to take place.

We were told that the school needs to shut down on the furlough days and that no robotics activity can take place. My concern is during the 6 week construction period, where our team meets every single day.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Sorry to hear that. There are, however lots of teams that meet less than every day. We meet twice per week and once on the weekend during build. OUr robots certainly aren't as advanced as many, but we do indeed get by pretty well with our schedule. Good luck, these changes/obstacles are never easy.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

The solution would have to be either working offsite, appealing to the School Board to get keys to the shop, or working a few days a week. All of them are doable, none of them especially ideal.

Perhaps find a team whose shop is open on the furlough days and do some fabrication there?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Ok, I am more concerned about how the students get a proper education when the rest of the world is going to more school hours instead of less.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Can you provide a link to a news article?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

EDIT: I had originally thought that they would add the hours onto the other four days, thus saving on overhead (HVAC, power, staff) costs slightly, but according to this article it looks like they are eliminating 17 school days all together.

I now fully echo Raul's concern...

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

<made irrelevant>
Well, that depends, if you extend the day so classes are 25% longer you get the same amount of instructional time, if you tack on 15 minutes to a 60 minute period over the 4 days you recoup the lost day.
</irrelevant>

However, I have a feeling there are many places schools could cut costs short of cutting class time and also echo Raul's concern.

My hunch for why they are doing this is so they dont have to run the school one more day. After experiencing the heat in Hawaii I can assume that cooling is a huge cost. Based on this assumption (which is purely speculation and can in no way be taken as fact) it would make no sense to allow teams to meet during those days off because it defeats the whole point. Best bet is to develop a new work schedule based around fewer meeting days. Many teams do not meet everyday and it works ok for them.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Jared,
Yes, they chose 17 days because it amounts to those weeks that have no holidays/other things going on.........that would cause students to miss school.
It was either this or massive layoffs and I am a firm believer that massive layoffs would have hurt the schools even more.

Society is willing to spend more money to fix prisons and pay out welfare checks, instead of putting/keeping money in education which is the backbone of our country. Go figure.:mad:

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

One benefit to the 4 day week is that buses operate 20% less. Busing is very expensive to districts.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

I had exactly the same thought process and, thus, now echo Raul and Jared.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Glenn,
I wonder how a Friday is any different than a weekend day? Didn't you previously work on weekends? And isn't a Friday under this scenario just one more weekend day?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Are they possibly going to give kids more homework to do on the days that they have off? If not, how are they getting away with this.

However, there definitely is stuff that you could do out of the shop during build season.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

You know, at when I first read the title of the article, I couldn't help but think that you guys were really lucky (I mean what kid doesn't want an extended weekend). But after you guys reinserted reality to the mix that attitude has sort of deflated. I agree totally with Raul. Especially for those involved in AP classes losing half a month of school will be a massive pain (not to mention a tremendous disadvantage on the tests).
As for the issue of a limited build schedule I'm a tad curious. Does this no activity directive also carry over to include the weekends as well? If it's just one weekday it shouldn't be to difficult to adapt to, but a weekday and the whole weekend might make things a tad more more interesting. Best of luck either way.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Joe,
At first, that's what I thought.........just like a weekend day.
But later, was told otherwise by our admin, but they are not 100% sure.

I wonder if its because of cutting other costs, such as electricity. Our athletic director also said that they were talking about rescheduling football games also that fell on a furlough day.

I guess it remains to be seen.

AP teachers have been in great discussion the past several days. Based on our school schedule, kids will lose out of 40% of AP instruction time per week. Ouch!

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

I had the same thoughts as Rich et al.....

This reminds me a little of what we in Ontario called "Rae days", after the Ontario premier who, in 1993, introduced something similar for most provincial workers. It did not enjoy the support of the major public service workers' unions, and was unpopular among my teachers at the time (presumably because their pay was being cut despite their collective bargaining agreement).

(What happened to the premier, Bob Rae? His party was soundly defeated in the next provincial election, mostly because of the unpopularity of this program.)

As implemented in the Scarborough public schools, Rae days were a bit different from what's apparently being proposed in Hawaii. Many of the unpaid days were concatenated on to the March break (and similar things), rather than cancelling two of every five Fridays.

How long is the Hawaii school year, anyway? Around 180 instructional days per annum?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Wow that's pretty drastic.

Is there a chance of reconsideration, Glenn? Or has this been finalized?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Here in British Columbia some northern districts went to a four day school week a few years ago, however that was a move to cut HEATING and bussing costs as opposed to cutting COOLING and bussing costs. They did it, however, by increasing the length of the school day on the four days they are running.

From what I understand, they are not in any particular hurry to switch back, and are actually kind of liking it.

Province-wide we have also had job actions (typically strikes, but also lock-outs) that have shut schools for more than a week, most recently a two-week shut down about three or four years back. There has been very little evidence that student learning was harmed by a one-time system shutdown such as this.

So I wouldn't be too worried about the effect on this year's students' education, assuming they make up for the missed time with a bit of extra homework (and that the school schedule can spread the lost time equally across classes). How it works out if the schedule is cut for a longer period of time... that I don't know.

What I do know is that the quantity of time a student spends in school is far less important than the quality of the time that they spend in school. If, by sacrificing quantity, the system is preserving quality, it is probably a fair trade.

As for your build time, over the past few years we have been trying to embrace the idea that while FIRST is an exciting and valuable part of life, it is just that... a part of life. We work hard on our robot Monday through Thursday... from 3:00 to 9:00 typically, but try to take Friday, Saturday and Sunday off when possible.... although towards the end of the build we have been known to work through the weekend, too.

To do this we have had to concentrate on simplifying our designs and, as we focus on thinking more and building less, we have found that our machines have performed at least as well as we did in our "build till you drop" past.

Good luck... you may find this works out great!

Jason

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

My guess is that the teachers will pass this. The alternative that has been discussed, is a straight pay cut. The school budget and teachers are already stretched. I would suspect some teachers are going to use their time to find work.
I just want to add that it doesnt help morale for teachers as everyone is already struggling in this bad economy. Personally, I have a part-time job, and plan on working more to make up for the 7.94% furlough cut.
I dont teach AP Physics anymore, but if I did, I probably would have afterschool sessions on the days we have school.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

I'm hoping the kids also take it on themselves to prepare for the AP test as most do. Its not too bad with the proper resources.

Anyhow, best of luck with the rest of the year. I really hope everything works out for you and 359.

See you in NJ? :rolleyes:

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

I wish team 359 luck in finding a way to make this work, though i do offer a word of caution. This weekend i was lucky enough to attend a meeting about the furlow/contract ideas. The problems that they brought up with working on the furlow days is that it would be a violation of labor laws. Problems could be created because between the union and the department of education. I did get to ask if it was possible for teachers to volunteer time (thinking about how crazy FRC season can get) however the response was that if teachers are volunteering time for a job they usually do, then department of education would be obligated to pay them. This of course leads to other problems with labor laws and such. However, teachers can volunteer (without pay) for a job that they do not usually do.

I'm not sure if any of that sheds light on ways that Hawaii public school teams can find ways to work on potential furlow days, but i do wish team 359 as well as the other teams the best of luck.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Football games on Mondays?
http://www.kitv.com/sports/21051051/detail.html

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Glenn,
Isn't there some federal limits on attendance days that have to be met? I hate to ask the question but is there going to be an impact on school trips like competitions where students will be out for a few days? I agree it is better to be working but it is a hard decision for your union to make.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

Apparently it's decided by the states. This was never passed.
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc111/s804_is.xml
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-804

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

School hours/days are indeed determined by the state, however most school districts wish their schools to be accredited by independent agencies like the Northwest Accreditation agency to lend enough validity to their programs so colleges feel that kids from participating districts are meeting certain standards. One of the standards is seat time for kids and the reduction described by Glenn comes nowhere near the hours criteria of any agency I know of. Hard to imagine a whole state ignoring accreditation but desperate times bring desperate measures...

If your state does allow exceptions for volunteer work on your long weekends you should be ok, right Glenn?

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

HI Guys,

418 has always worked Monday thru Thursday and Saturday Mornings as our only work time. I beieve that that day off gives both the students and mentors a good break and we therefore work more efficiently (though I know this is subject for debate).

You guys have a tremendous program and lots of talent. I think you will grow from this situation and emerge even stronger. Hang loose.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

We were under the assumption that you could work outside the doe. As for minimum no. of instruction days/hours, there isn't any.

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Well, teachers overwhelmingly voted to ratify, so we're off to alternating (or so) Fridays off. While I don't think it will affect the build season (frees up more time actually for the students), I am concerned about taking students out of school more than necessary (mainland regional) if they're already missing 17 days of instruction as it is...

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Didn't Hawaii provide funding assistance for teams? What's the status of that now?

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Glen,

You are always welcome at Sacred Hearts on your off days. I will even waive the "no boy" rule. I realize this offer is hollow since we have 1/8th the equipment and space as you and it would mean trucking your team and robot to the other side of the island, but if you need some space we can always find it here at the Academy.

Re: Hawaii public schools go to 4 day school week
 

That's a good question. Through our Act 111, it supported an array of expenses for the various robotics programs/competitions the last couple of years.
I am assuming that hasn't changed since VEX kits were purchased for schools that are participating through that funding already.

As for covering registration fees for the hawaii regional, 368 or the UH College of Engineering could probably shed more light on that question. I know that we had funding, but I'm not sure how much is left for this and future FRC seasons.
Hawaii teams are depending on that to overcome the registration hurdle.

The concern that FRC students will miss lots of school in addition to 17 less days is a good one.