[BB]: Kits and Bags
 

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...h-more-to.html

This is going to be interesting. Keep an eye or so on the blog today, as more info could be coming out at any time.

[BB]: KOP info
 

There is a comparison of what Veterans will receive versus rookies on Bill's Blog.

[quote[You can find information on the 2010 Veteran and Rookie Kits of Parts on our website. Follow the link from the site.[/quote]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Very interesting. I wonder if someone can do some back of the envelope math to figure out the dollar value of the parts veterans will not receive this year?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Also, what about those teams that were out of the picture last year, but are coming back this year. They get the rookie KOP as far as controller is concerned. Are there different categories beside just rookie and veteran?
A second year team may be at the greatest disadvantage.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Why not just have an order list for all the parts and we pay the base cost for the regional. It seems like less and less of a savings to teams, but I'll wait to see the math on it.

I wonder if veteran teams can pay rookie cost and get the "good" kit...

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Please refer to: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...ran-teams.html

Short answer: Veterans who didn't compete last year will get the rookie kit at the rookie price.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I'd be interested in seeing a better cost breakdown, but my quick calc shows that the cost is about $1400 difference between the rookie kit and the veteran kit. I'd just as soon buy the rookie kit and have all the parts that I need rather than trying to order them À la carte and get zocked on shipping from lots of vendors.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

It will be interesting to see how the cost accounting section of the manual is going to be worded now. There will almost certainly have to be some extra words in there to deal with the discrepancies between kits.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I'm not really sure how to feel about this, obviously less money is a good thing. But there are some components missing there that we would definitely have to order more of to supplement the lack of them in the kit which seems a little backwards to me.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I got a similar number, What annoys me is how much they publicized "we are decreasing the cost of registration"

From my standpoint the cost to teams actually went UP. For a $1000 decrease in registration teams (who want to keep a functioning robot) will now have to shell out $1400. That seems like an increase in cost.

Not to mention that while I am thankful many grants exist and are the lifeline for many teams, they mostly cover registration. So for example any team who was banking on a nasa grant* for their initial registration will now have to come up with 1400 more cash to cover the differences.

*this is not a stab at the grant process just an illustration on how this will effect many teams. We all appreciate that the grants exist and should never bite the hand that feeds, or any of another 100 or so sayings that could apply to this situation.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

You only have to pay that extra $1400 if you choose not to pull last year's parts from last year's robot. For $1000 less than you paid for the 2009 registration, your veteran team will have everything that a 2010 rookie will. You just received some of it in the previous year's Kit of Parts instead of the current year's one.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I got $2105. See attached.

For those who came up with the $1400-range estimates, where are the differences between your tally and mine?

My number also doesn't account for any shipping charges.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

In my opinion a second year team should go and still get the rookie kit in order to better stock their inventory, the veteran package is for the benefit of "the veterans" who have seen the same wheel, servo, speed controller, ect. year after year and still have well stocked parts they could use.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

The question is not whether a given team should get the extra inventory by way of the rookie kit, it is whether they can. If they are not allowed to, then the above is a moot point.

Personally, I think FIRST should have three kit options:
Rookie = Veteran + Control
Veteran = the standard hardware kit, minus the control system
Control = the control system

This way, anyone could opt to get an extra control system from one place, regardless of experience, instead of having to go around to 3-4 different vendors to piece it together or register as a rookie. But a veteran team without the money for another system can simply opt to do the Veteran kit, while one with enough to get three extra control systems could buy them (and hopefully give at least one of them to a nearby team who couldn't get an extra).

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

You didn't care about the two 20 cent standoffs?:)

Just for yuks I took a look at the cost of shipping & handling for the 2 standoffs. Shipping them alone- as part of a larger order there wouldn't be any shipping cost, of course, but where's the fun in that?

For $.40 in parts, it'd cost $9.00 to have them shipped.

Okay, okay, local parts supply will have them too ....:p

P.S.
Remember too that plastic pneumatic fittings were not included in the KOP last year which I think makes it much harder on the rookies to even try pneumatics.

If you wanted to do a full accounting I noticed that there will be some additional costs for parts not mentioned, but that obviously won't be included in the kit either. Such as the pressure relief valve ($27.20) and the cRIO power connectors (not included BTW in our team's cRIO order).

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Keep in mind none of the super veteran teams get a second cRIO, the most expensive item in the kit, and other control system parts, so they're just as unwell stocked. Stuff like the compressor, etc. makes more sense though (I think my team hasn't used an onboard compressor yet...)

I figure this is better than them having to raise costs, which would get many of the same complaints without any opportunity for anyone who doesn't need all the parts to cut funding. So it might not be a savings, but it's still alright in my opinion.

Consider this: If your team didn't use an onboard compressor even one year in its history and you feel you need one now, that's most of the difference right there. With that and the battery charger, even if my team bought everything else removed from the KoP they'd still come up a few dollars short.

Note: Above based on the $1400 estimate; $2000+ is significantly more upsetting for me.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

This is the route we are most likely going to take. We need the chargers, Jags (yuk!), the battery, and the extra goodies that we haven't been able to stockpile. We also understand the need for the extra cRio to get the programmers up to speed ASAP.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Interesting to see the Victors still on the list, but WOW we are getting shorted a lot more than I thought. No charger, only one battery, only two jaguar speed controls. Seems all hopes of restoring/preserving old robots are really out the window now. Oh well, maybe there will be some new and exciting stuff in the kit.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I'm trying to leave a comment on Bill's Blog that is more substantive than, "you lie," but that's pretty well how I feel about how this "price reduction" has been handled.

FIRST really ought to own up to and explain the increased costs and challenges of operating in an economy that very nearly imploded or hire a better public relations person. They've done a poor job of making these changes seem like they're a good thing.

Is there anyone around here that can speak to how these changes will make the 2010 season significantly better for their team or region? I'm sure many, if not all, of the teams that are going to shell out the extra $2000 required for all of these omitted parts would HAPPILY pay an extra $1000 for registration and give the remaining $1000 to a team in need.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Some of this makes me wonder what Eric's been up to, because it hints at what is different in the 2010 electronics.

I'm not complaining, but I find it odd that lacking a new cRIO, veteran's still receive (1) Analog Bumper. I assume that means the design has been changed?

Obviously, we're receiving other critical parts of the electrical system (Power Distribution Panel - LEDs added back on maybe?), and the Digital Sidecar (what's new here?).

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I was cutting people some slack as to not make the tally even worse. :p

Don't forget about the SMC solenoid valves. Can you even buy such things online? SMC doesn't have an online store. You'd have to contact an SMC rep, right?

These aren't supplied to ANY teams, correct? So they wouldn't belong on a additional veteran cost tally.

As January approaches, I hope FIRST will compile and release a complete document listing full manufacturer part numbers and ordering sources for all control system items not included in the veteran KOP. I think they can and will do better than the document they just released. It would be great if they also threw in information on all the pneumatic components that were left out of last year's kit.

Not being one to wait around for that to drop out of the sky, I've got a lot of links documented at http://controlsystem.neofra.com/2009...l-system-parts. This is where I went to compile much of the pricing I included in the spreadsheet I posted earlier. I'll do my best to refresh and add to the information on this site as I receive updates.

If anyone has any ordering sources for pneumatic items such as those Mark mentioned, or any other "important" electrical or pneumatic items that aren't included in the veteran kit (or at all), please PM me with information, and I will update the website.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

The issue isnt that it isn't a price reduction for SOME people. The issue is that it is being sold as a wonderful thing for all teams when in reality it is only beneficial for a subset of teams. While this is a good thing for those teams it is a pain for teams that arent benefited by it. Additionally it allows FIRST to come out and say, "See look, we are saving you money, we are such great guys" Which is an incorrect statement and implies things that arent true, some of us have major issues with incorrect implications.

EDIT: Also, I suppose some people might be peeved that they arent saving money too.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

This sounds like a concern that should be addressed directly to FIRST, Travis. It's valid.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

That's why I'm curious to see how many teams this really affects. At first glance, this appears to penalize a great majority of teams -- in terms of cost or function -- for the benefit of comparably few. Maybe that's not true.

If 100 teams would have dropped out in 2010 were it not for the reduced registration fee and 101+ teams spend an extra $2000 to maintain their status quo, there's money wasted. Again, I can't speak for everyone, but my team would be happier giving $1000 to any other FIRST team than to a for-profit business.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I hate to use the word "lie" but the spin from FIRST might make us all very dizzy.

I understand cutting out something like the compressor (we have 8 and many teams never use them.) I understand (but don't like) not including a second cRio for veteran teams.

Cutting back on things like batteries and speed controllers is just wrong. These things are more like consumables that permanent control parts. How many of you are going to trust old batteries? How many of you have blown up speed controllers?

Don't make things more expensive for me and then tell me you cut my costs. That sounds way to much like congress.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I've been up to my day job so Dean doesn't fire me ;)

I know my opinion doesn't count in this thread because I am sometimes considered to be on the wrong side of the fence. Therefore, I won't offer it.

However, I will offer my mom's opinion. She is a high school chem teacher that coaches a 2 year team (last year was their rookie season). They don't have much of a budget, and the economy reduced it further. The price break was very important to their ability to compete again this year. Her response "Costs increased, but they made parts optional. Great, I didn't want to buy them anyway."

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I will agree that the reduction in registration fee makes the initial fund raising hurdle much more achievable for many teams. A lot of teams don't try to compete well, they just try to compete period. They will scavenge and re-use whatever they have an not buy a single piece more. This change benefits them.

Another way to look at this change is that it's somewhat of a payment deferment plan. Instead of having to pay $6000 to FIRST by the beginning of December, you can afford to be a little slower about your fund raising efforts, and take another month or so to get the extra thousand (to buy the things that didn't come with it).

It's not all bad.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Except that sometimes money for registrations and money for robot parts can come from two different sources and aren't necessarily interchangable.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

So does this mean we will have less arguments about what parts can be legally reused from year to year, components vs COTS? Or more? Remember the battery cable floo-fla last year?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Well it's not a "lie", it's more like "spin". The problem with spin is that 90+% of us are engineers and at some point we turn the spin off and look at the facts. I've seen the FIRST Spin Machine (tm) in action over the FTC change, with the "better, faster, stronger, real robot parts".

And we are seeing the FIRST Spin Machine again. They would have been much better off saying: "Hey, FRC is expensive, we know that and we have an idea:

• Rookie teams get all the KoP parts for their entry fee
• Veteran Teams can get a reduced KoP at a reduced price and buy extra stuff they need (which may save them money)
• Or Veteran Teams can get the full kit for an extra $1500

and to help out the Rookie teams in these tough times Dean is going to cough up $1500 for each rookie team to help them out."

At which point the entire discussion is how smart FIRST is and how cool Dean is and this is why we do FRC.

Instead of the discussion we are now having.

Spin, spin, spin, good for drive trains, not so much for people.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I'm wondering if they're going to go ahead and play 'stupid' and assume veteran teams can't do simple math.

I'm pretty disappointed to see a lot of the stuff we won't be getting. Even the Axis camera..? (I'm gonna go ahead and assume we can use other types of USB cameras though)

No Victors..?'

1 battery..? (Not to mention a huge pile of batteries from the 08 season were from a bad batch that we had to throw out with leaking cells)

No compressor..? (Hoping we can just buy a 10 dollar one from HF)

Thanks FIRST, you're the best. :) (Reminisces about the trusty old IFI days)

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

The two items I mentioned (the pressure relief valve ($27.20) and the cRIO power connectors) will be in the rookie KOP, but not in the veterans the way I read between the lines, because they are only used on devices that veterans won't be getting but rookies will.

The SMC solenoids can be ordered online, but probably have to be from a product catalog to get the specifics we need, mostly because of the 12v coils, rather than the more common 24v coils. That might mean a phone order from an on-line distributor.
E.g., we can order 12v SMC solenoids from a catalog--example: SMC Pneumatic Solenoid
2008's double solenoid was a: SY3240-6H-S (This translates to SY3000 series, 2-position single action, base mounting, 12VDC, L-type plug connector, surge suppressor)
The single-action solenoid was a: SY3140-6H-S
Each SMC solenoid also requires a base: SY3000-27-1T

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I may be mistaken, but going back prior to the 2000 season, wasn't the control system essentially "loaned" to teams, to be returned to FIRST at the end of competition season? E.g. teams would put a deposit down, use the controls for competition, then return them for a refund of the deposit. I believe there was an option to purchase the controls, but it was a few thousand dollars, and my old team couldn't afford to keep them in 1998 or 1999.

I know after 2000 the controls were included in the kit for keeps, as I still have the robot complete with controls, and they have been standard each year since. Granted, times have changed, and many teams like to maintain older robots for demos, shows, off-season competitions, etc, but I've always considered a new control system each year to be a luxury, not a necessity.

By making the kit more modular, it will ultimately lower the veteran entry price in the long term. From a practical standpoint, how many teams would actively use more than 2 or 3 control combos at any given time? One would go into the current competition robot, a second or third may go into a practice and/or demo robot. If a team purchases an additional control system for this coming season, and needs no more than 2 functional systems, the additional cost this season would be offset by the savings in subsequent seasonal registration fees, where they would otherwise be "forced" to purchase unnecessary hardware.

While I certainly hear the argument that the value of the missing hardware isn't properly represented by the cost savings, the idea of modularizing the kit is a step in the right direction for long term cost savings.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Many teams take pride in keeping all of their robots functioning, and for many years FIRST's methods allowed this with no hassle.

No way to cut it, the combination of decisions made has been stupid, and it upsets me. The fact that the spin they put on these statements is so intense makes it even more upsetting.

Yeah, I "should look on the brightside", but I'd also like to point out how stupid this really is.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

(I've been keeping away from CD for the past year due to the pressures of graduate school applications/interviews/start of grad school as well as trying to keep the Pittsburgh teams and regional running last year, but I figured I can maybe add something to this discussion)

I can't vouch for this year specifically, but I know that in the past, many of the parts that have been distributed in the KOP came from donations from various companies or were purchased by FIRST at a cost that was discounted by the particular vendor. In these cases, FIRST has often been limited to the quantity of each part they have access to to provide to teams via constraints from those companies. Considering that the value of the KOP has often times vastly outweighs the actual registration costs (you get access to one competition along with the KOP through registration, too) FIRST teams usually end up with a pretty decent deal. Pricey, yes, but a good deal. One should perhaps consider that in this economic climate, many vendors and companies are likely decreasing their ability to contribute parts or discounts to FIRST to place in the KOP and FIRST itself doesn't necessarily have the funds to acquire these parts for the teams. So, in order to cut back costs, doesn't it seem slightly reasonable to ask teams that already have these parts to utilize the old parts instead of supplying them with new ones? Not all teams need to get new or replacement parts - reusing and recycling are fantastic things too! For those who need particular parts (but likely not all) you will be able to selectively purchase what you truly need without dishing out extra funds that can be used for other necessities. While I can understand everyone's gripes and frustration towards the situation, I think we also need to look at the other side of this too...

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I heartily agree: FIRST needs to stop the spin. Especially in situations like this where the cold hard evidence is going to be right in front of the person who has to spend 10 times what a component is worth in shipping just to get it.

Unlike many, I think the tiered pricing can be a good thing: as long as FIRST allows people to choose what kit they want. They do listen to posts here on occasion, so a loud-and-clear "Let us choose the kit we want" should do it.

Finally, I don't think we should do an apples-to-apples comparison between last years Kit of parts and this year. An intel classmate PC costs between $450 and $500. Replacing the driver station last year cost $162. That's a roughly $300 swing in cost by itself. We don't yet know what the other components cost - the driver station breakout board is likely to cost around $30-40 as well. So even the upper limit of $2100 difference I've seen thrown around may be mitigated to some degree by the cost of the new components we'll be getting.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

FYI, the rest of the post has arrived. Same place.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Here at FIRST airlines, we would like to generously thank you for choosing to fly with us today with our new, lower priced flights!

We are sorry to announce that due to space limitations, all carry on luggage must be checked for the low price of $50 per bag.

Unfortunately, space is crowded on this flight so we genuinely hope you enjoy eating your knees for lunch.

Speaking of snacks, the current recession has put us in a bind, but we would still like to thank you for your $5000 ticket by offering you six ounces of juice, soda, or water and ten Goldfish crackers.



Additional snacks and beverages can be purchased throughout this eight hour flight for the now lowered price of $20 per drink, and $1 per Goldfish cracker.

For your entertainment throughout the flight, Wifi can be purchased for $1 per second.

And unfortunately, due to both overbooked airspace around this airport and lack of viable alternative high-speed transportation, the captain is estimating we are going to spend three hours taxiing on the tarmac before we takeoff.

Last, but not least, in the highly unlikely situation that we were unable to purchase enough fuel to make it through the entire flight, there are parachutes located underneath every seat. In case of an emergency, please make sure your own parachute is fastened before kindly assisting others.

Thank you, please enjoy your flight, and have a wonderful day!

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Cory, you didn't really read my post, did you? The intent is that FIRST offers the kits. Rookie kits are the same as Veteran + Control, including pricewise. I didn't say anything about this ending after one year, either, or only being good for one control kit. You see what I'm saying?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

It was my understanding that you could get a discounted cRIO from NI last year as well; if you did, you can get a new discounted cRIO this year. I believe this will continue.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to artdutra04 again."

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

My understanding is that you get one single discounted cRIO. -ever-. Not yearly. Maybe I misinterpreted that statement when it was released.

[edit]My bad. It is once yearly.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

From this page:
http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/206678

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Do we have that high a percentage of engineers involved in FRC? Wow.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

The cost of the driver station and wireless router were NOT included in the $2100 calculation, due to the anticipated replacement with the Classmate PC and related "stuff".

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Given the mountains of components we have gotten over the years in our KOP but never used, if FIRST needs to save money in a big way I'd rather the KOP just included donated items and a link to a well-documented website with items to buy separately. AndyMark would run such a thing, I'll bet. That would make sense to teams, of course, only if the registration fee dropped a lot more.

Since rookies wouldn't know what to order to get started, there would need to be a starter kit with a kit frame, motors, transmissions, etc. that would be enough to build a box on wheels. Perhaps there could be another kit available with a grab bag of interesting parts, like the current KOP, available for teams who want to buy one.

Personally, and for the sake of the planet, I'd rather just pay for what we need if the result was a much lower registration fee.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I have 2 questions...

Will veteran teams have the choice of paying the rookie fee and receiving the extra parts? If so when does that request have to be made????? Certainly that would have to be a choice made quickly in order for FIRST to have the necessary parts in hand.

If a part is NOT included in the veteran kit of parts... (ie the camera) Can a team utilize any camera that they want to use? The camera is a good example of something that a team should be able to choose for themselves... especially if it is not included in the first place...

It would seem to me that the rules about OTS parts should be loosened up considerably.... just the bare minimum types of parts should be detailed.
In looking at the process over the past few years... I can see this has already started... (ie pneumatic cylinders from last year...)

Batteries, control system, motors, these need to stay the same for everyone and they need to be provided...or spec'd

I really only have a big issue about the batteries....
1 battery for a veteran team....
I know the "new batteries" we have changed to do NOT have the ability to stay viable like our old batteries did... and they are prone to break down...you can see many threads on this issue...

I have to agree with many... I feel like we have been told we have been "given" this big reduction in cost for teams.... but in reality we will have to pay more to get the same thing....

It's like buying that new car and getting a great price but now you need to pay for the 3rd and 4th tire and the second wind shield wiper....just take them off your old car....

I don't have an answer.... but I like to get the straight scoop...
just tell us the way it has to be.... don't white wash it...

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Excellent Question Madison. I am going to take a stab at it.

One thing we should all keep in mind is that realistically we are all playing with donated money (some more than others). Some teams work really hard and sell things to fund their teams (or pay out of pocket), but then still go to a Regional that is not funded by registration fees, but by corporate sponsors directly through the Regional or indirectly subsidized through donations to FIRST.

My guess is where this "helps" most of us is it allows for the FRC to continue on in a reasonable fashion. Unlike other "fairness" rules and attempts that often have backfired, I think this was probably a legitimate compromise of trying to balance the FRC Budget. I know some folks are going to quote surplus budgets, but let's remember they are looking into the long term. If heating costs go up, and your paycheck goes down, do you continue to keep the house at 75F in December (and then freeze in Feb. when you run out of money), or do you drop the thermostat down to 68 and throw on a sweater?

(I understand that this is one of those government economics answers that would be excessively difficult to prove, but it is my gut feeling).

One of the great opportunities of a down economy are that for most of us, it helps us re-look at "needs" vs. "wants". While some "wants" have always been obvious (wanting to fly to Hawaii regional vs. driving to Detroit), others are less obvious. Your robot and thus your team "needs a control system". Teams "want to leave the old bot in tact".

Opportunities for this could be figuring out a design that is more transportable and more plug and play. I saw an interesting controls system "board" designed for OCCRA. The kids called it the "Brain Bucket". It was a plastic tub that had the IFI controller, and all the power electronics except the battery mounted to the bottom and sides. I think they re-used the "brain bucket" for years, and with about 50% of the wiring already done, it made wiring up a simple robot super quick and easy.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I hear what you’re saying about the sustainability of FIRST, their surplus budget, and teams weighing their “wants” vs. “needs”. The two teams I mentor may want to do FIRST, but they don’t need to. They have no surplus budget. Which way do you think they will eventually go?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Travis:

Thanks for taking the time to tally the cost difference. I believe you may have overlooked a critical (and reasonably expensive item). The Power Distribution module is of course required to provide the 24V to the cRIO, and it costs almost $200. This raises your hard tally to $2300. As you state, you did not include shipping, which I'm sure would be another hundred or two. We are almost up to $2500.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I didn't see the PD listed in the comparison chart. To me, this indicates that veterans will be receiving one in their KoP. Is this the conclusion that others have reached?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

Isn't there a limit to how much you can spend on a bot? If you choose to not use last years parts/electronics , do you have to figure that cost into the bom or what ever it is called?

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

There was a limit to how much you could spend on parts for you robot in addition to the KOP, any and every rule is subject to change. There may or may not be a similar restriction this year.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that a restriction will still be in place and that all teams will be able to use the parts available in the rookie KOP without accounting for their cost on the BOM.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I hate to fan flames, but I thought of another context to think about this in. It involves a couple of assumptions that probably aren't true, so please view it more as an exercise than a model of reality.

Assumptions:

1. The contents of the veteran KoP is the result of an optimization problem. Solution goodness is only measured by average cost to teams.(Probably not true).
2. For a given part, only X% of teams will make use of it in a given year.
3. For a given part, it only costs Y% as much to include it in the KoP as it does for a team to purchase it separately.

Conclusions:

1. Parts that are included in the KoP but not used by a team is the equivalent of that team subsidizing teams that do use them.
2. Conversely, not including a part in the KoP can be considered as subsidizing the other fraction of the teams.
3. The optimal solution (for the given assumption) is to include a part only when X>Y.

We, the community, can only make assumptions as to what X and Y are for the various parts. FRC HQ knows Y and has decent estimates of X.

What should the optimization strategy be? Lowest average? Lowest Median? Lowest competitive option? Lowest option that doesn't force recycling?

How do we account for the fact that money is actually a non-linear quantity? (Saving a low budget team 1000$ is different than saving a big budget team 1000$. Lowering the minimum cost may be the difference between competing or not competing to some very poor teams).

What other hidden costs are there? (Not having a part be in the KoP also costs time. Donated money can behave oddly.)

How do we work into account the terrible condition of the economy (and therefore our donors)?

Although my exercise is crude, I do hope it gives a useful strawman perspective.

Re: [BB]: KOP info
 

I just wanted to say thank you to the poster who compiled price lists. I had to create a document tonight estimating the value of the 2010 parts on a 2009 robot. You saved me quite a bit of work.