Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

I couldn't help but contest that statement in official CD-style. While this statement is sometimes true, there are many examples (1114, 111, 67, and the list goes on) of teams who continue to succeed year after year. They did something that was right and I think ALL teams have a lesson to learn from this. These teams have identified what they do "right" year after year in order to succeed. Of course, FIRST is very varied and not all teams are able to get all the "success factors" right every year. But, they can learn from things they did right.

Lessons can include:
"While driving the robot around at the end of build season, we figured that we can accomplish *these* tasks best by doing *so and so*. " Playing your robots strengths can work for you year after year.

"Having a solid storyboard and plan was a major factor in us winning the animation award". This factor can help increase your chance for success year after year.

"Booking hotel rooms early in the season for X regional helped us save X amount of dollars".

While I think your statement is sometimes correct, I would argue that past performance and results can sometimes be an indication of future results. It depends on whether you learn from it and continue to do what you need to do in order to succeed.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

Yes, but to imply that's a reason not to be proud of past accomplishments (or, more frankly, not use them to your advantage where you can, such as showing them off to sponsors) is even more ridiculous.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

as I browse the thread, this appears in the little quoter section at the top.

"Gracious Professionalism at its finest - Competing like CRAZY on the field, then working together like professionals off the field to make these events the best they can be for everyone involved. - Stu Bloom"

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

There are differences between pride and hubris, I think, and feel personally that lauding your achievements to people that have not demonstrated any interest in them is distinctly the latter.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

Can you think of a situation where someone reading your shirt would think "They are proud of winning award X? What a bunch of jerks!" The only ones I can think of are along the lines of "Why is my sponsor logo smaller than / obscured by award X?"


When I read the title, I was about to knee jerk reply about "against GP", but saw that people more eloquent than I already handled it. Thanks!

I'm going to have to jump on this bandwagon, hopefully it isn't full yet.

I really hate to nitpick, but "indicative" is a poor choice for a word in that sentence. Perhaps you intended "is not a guarantee of" instead? "Indicative" is loose, like suggestion: Today's weather is a pretty good indicator for tomorrow's weather, but it is by no means perfect. To Dancin, although we can not predict the future with certainty, throwing away data is counterproductive. Engineers make best-faith decisions everyday in the face of these uncertainties.

The reason I push this point is that past performance truly is a valuable indicator of future results, and more importantly, that knowledge of past performance can effect* future results. It can help with sponsors, help freshman feel the "We Can Do It" vibe, etc.






* go-go-gadget nounform-effect!

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

I'll make a few comments on the several subjects that have come up here. Please forgive my long reply.

FIRST (and other competitive robotics programs) are built on the sport model. We compete. We award the best competitors. We celebrate human accomplishments in something that in and of itself produces nothing. The preparation for competition and the actual tournament provides competitors (and spectators to some extent) a way to improve themselves. This personal growth is the product of all sport.

The primary difference between sport as it is often practiced and FIRST is that sometimes sport takes war as it's model ("crush your opponent!") while most engineering competitions have embraced Dr. Flower's Gracious Professionalism as their model for competition.

We need to put both of these ideals together. FRC is competitive robotics, not a robotics exhibition. We celebrate our accomplishments and compete for that recognition.

I'm all in favor of celebrating our accomplishments! List those awards.

A list of awards and the year you won them gives new team members a sense of pride - they are part of the team that has achieved to that level. (I remember when I was rowing in college, there was a great photo on the boathouse wall of the Henley '54 & '55 crews from the one time the school had traveled to England and won the most prestigious collegiate rowing event in the world. Every time I walked passed it, I felt motivated by the accomplishments of that crew - even though it happened over 10 years before I was born.)

I take pride in the accomplishments of my team, and of all the awards that we have received, I count the Johnson & Johnson Gracious Professionalism award the most important. That we have received this award 7 times in the past 7 years tells everyone what kind of team we are. It is also hopefully an indication of what kind of team we will continue to be.

-Joseph Vanderway
Coach, Robodox

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

I've read many people talk about offending other teams with their awards. Many find this preposterous because the word chosen was "offend". I definitely agree that nobody will be offended by a list of awards. I would rather inject a different word, "intimidated". I've seen many freshmen* go to their first regional and they get mighty intimidated. Sure, the size of the competition certainly has an effect. But something else that might play a role is realizing the success of their opponents. Thoughts such as, "Look at them, they won the championships last year...we don't have a chance" is a common thought when presented with such displays of pride. Perhaps this isn't a real issue, but I've reassured many students that we all have the same chance as the big teams. I'm not saying that pride is a bad thing. A teacher of mine once told me, "Even the strongest armor needs polished sometimes". Just try to not polish it to the point that its blinding.

*I choose to use this term for new member of the team...not necessarily to the school.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

The mark of a good captain is one in which his/her crew genuinely believes that no matter how hairy a storm or battle gets, they will emerge victorious. Doubt and intimidation about success often proves a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Confidence cannot come from rhetoric alone. It must come at least partially from first-hand experience. Team building exercises, Vex competitions, and attending FRC off-season competitions are all great ways to boost confidence of new members.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

I wonder if we have overwhelmed our OP with all of our posts and opinions. It is her very first post here in CD and it has managed to start quite a discussion. Hopefully, some of the posts have answered her question and have provided some insight into all of the areas that folks have introduced into the thread. :yikes:

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

I think Molten has a good point here:
But in many robotics competitions like FIRST, this can be turned into "Look at them, they won the championships last year... and we might get to be their alliance partners!"

If those champions are a team that has embraced Gracious Professionalism, they will welcome, assist, support and cheer for that new team and those new team members.

-Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

How about "Look at them, they won the championships last year, I bet they'll help us with our busted lifter / code / wiring"?

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

If possible, it's what all good teams should do.

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

If she managed to start such a provocative yet civil thread on her first post, she sounds like somebody who should post more often! We need more like her.

ChrisH

Re: Gracious Professionalism or NOT?
 

What about teams (most of them) that hang their championship/chairman's banners in their pits? I don't think that really targets any different of an audience then T-shirts, and it seems to be generally accepted...
If you're thinking about students wearing the T-shirts in general, say at school, I don't see a problem with that. If I hadn't been in FIRST, I still would have been interested in learning that a team associated with my school had won something