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[FTC]: Robot Capabilities
We're starting to near the last section of build and I've been curious what are the capabilities of other teams robots at this time.
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
By "Hoarding" balls, do you mean 20+, 30+, etc?
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
I think you're missing a few functions the most competitive FTC robots will have, honestly. And I doubt anyone who has them will say anything about them until they win their events with them. :D
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
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Look at video of Aim High FRC robots for inspiration. With one exception (an amazing quick-fire catapult) they all used some version of a baseball pitching machine. Both single-wheel and double-wheel versions worked well. If you want to shoot, it will look like a pitching machine, and mostly the wheels will be top-mounted to minimize blocking. Picking up balls is a pretty easy exercise, as is shooting them. Tying the shooter together with a ball store and picker is the engineering challenge. I predict that a lot of teams will fail at the center mechanism. Check out the Robowranglers (FRC 148) Lunacy robot for some great inspiration on how to solve this problem. Add a baseball pitching machine to the top and Bob's your uncle. You can vary the distance and height of your shooter by either varying the shooter wheel speed or the point of release. In 2006, I preferred the second method, but there's not much question that either can work. A mechanism or strategy that can turn the goal is a valuable thing. I'm not suggesting any particular mechanism, but I have noticed that the penalty for moving the goal in autonomous is pretty small in comparison to the points you can avoid <deleted>. In the middle of writing this paragraph it occurred to me that the GDC is a pretty bright bunch and that they might have noticed that a 5-point penalty isn't enough to dissuade this strategy. In the latest version of the manual the penalty for SG7 has been increased to 40 points. Take note! A relatively minor offense is now the death penalty. Most FTC robots I saw last year were poorly controlled, and I don't think this was bad driving. The drive motors are so powerful in relation to the size of the field that teams built fast robots that were hard to drive. I expect the best robots this year to have great smoothed-and-scaled drive code. With another cluttered field this year with four relatively large robots on it maneuverability will be at a premium, so I expect to see new-generation driving code to be combined with holonomic drive trains in many of the best robots. Our new FTC robot uses a holo drive and it's a revelation compared to last year's machine. The blocking rules may engender some strategies which include "drawing fouls" by shooting balls in such a way as to lead referees to believe that another robot was blocking. The reliance of the rules on having referees divine the intent of drivers will lead to mind games where teams try to convince the referees that the other alliance intended to commit a foul where none was meant. I'm not a big fan of rules that require referees to figure out what teams intended, but it does open up a rich avenue for strategy boffins. Of course, you need a good strategy for acquiring balls. Sucking them up as they come down the ramp seems like a no-brainer to me. The ability to hold zillions of balls looks good, as is the ability to hit the off-field goals from more than minimum distance. Shooting while moving would also be valuable, but I doubt we'll see much of that. Just like last year, winning auto will mean winning the match nearly all the time. The auto bonus is so incredibly huge in the last two FTC games that if you can't score in auto you might as well not play. Conversely, a terrific auto defensive strategy might make you a popular alliance partner. A defensive robot won't get you to Championships, though. Top scoring robots will end up top-ranked after qualifying, and while a great defensive robot will be a valuable alliance partner, it will only get ranked high in qualifying if it is paired with a great scorer. Since only alliance captains go to Champs, I wouldn't waste time building a defensive robot. A great defensive team would be a good partner for the best scorer, but won't go to Worlds. Got to go back to work, but that's my 10-minute analysis. |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
After quickly realizing I don't have a team, might as well add some thoughts to Rick's excellent analysis on what I see as stuff that seems particularly important. Disclaimer that I could be very wrong.
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I would not be surprised to see a swerve chassis of some sort this year. Quote:
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
Think about what it takes to prevent auton. scoring by spinning the bar:
It's definitely a niche strategy that could win in the clutch, but overall it would be very very risky to design for without having already seen the game played by actual teams. I'd put it on par with a Goldman Sachs investment strategy: it's great at the moment for you, but bad for everyone, including you, overall in the longer term. Additionally, playing defense in auto could also lead to a disadvantage at the ball chutes ... though I'd estimate the chances of that are the same chances two robots block each other on the way to getting their far chute in auton. It's just too difficult to tell how it'd play out right now and so it's definitely an option we'll have available. |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
I was personally thinking of getting a close ball chute locked up, then going for the bar (with line tracking or whatever). Partner could secure the far chute. If the alliance only scores their 4-8 preload into the high goal, well, worse things have happened.
Still, this strategy will rarely ever happen. I wouldn't count on it. |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
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I honestly think the 10 point goal is the most important part of the game. Scoring in it is just as valuable as scoring in autonomous, but easier as you have drivers to control it. The goals are also wider so you can shoot 2 or 3 balls wide into the goal, unloading at ridiculous speeds. Just one corner worth of balls plus a doubler and your preload and you break 400 points. 40 point penalty doesn't look so bad now.[/QUOTE] Ok if you go for the spin bar, then by the time you get there the other robot has the 40 points. IF they can get in range and gets them in right away. THEN its like they have 80 points (I don't think its the best way to win) + they only get 40 points if they get all 8 balls in with alto mode UNLESS they get the YELLOW ball in at the end.:D |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
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Remember if a robot makes just as many balls in the 10 point goal as the opponent makes in auto, they've canceled out their advantage. So then if the 10 point shooter ends up grabbing a goal worth of balls and scoring them in the end, they could get as many / more points than a team scoring in the 5 point during auto and the rest in the 10 point goal, assuming same number of obtained balls. Add in doublers and the ten point goal basically has the most potential of all of them. granted, this requires a massive hopper and a very fast shooter, so this strategy only works if you had that... It's an interesting tradeoff to figure out which goal to aim for (or both, then decide at the event), but I think a properly designed 10 point only robot wouldn't NEED to win auto to do super well. However, the event winners will probably be 5 point auto scorers, 10 point teleop scorers... |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
Chris, are you thinking that you're able to score into the outer goals during auto? It's my understanding that no one is allowed to score into the outer goals until the last 30 seconds of teleop.
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
I'm thinking ball for ball, a ball scored in 5 point auto is the same as a ball scored in the 10 point goal.
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
yes but even if they did'nt get any of the 8 balls in the 5 point goll and they don't get the 40 points and you move the spin bar then your partner and you need to save your 8 balls then when you spin it then you have -40 and they have 0 and the 8 balls are on the floor i can't see how that will help (but its not my team so do whatever you fell like) + by doing that in auto mode i think the judgs won't like that and if other teams see you doing that they might not won't you as a partner.
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Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
well, they will not get 40 extra points in autonomous, and if you or your opponent pick up even 1 ball, it'd be a net gain for you.
That being said, this strategy will almost never appear. It might happen once in eliminations. It's something to consider but it's not only beneficial solely to teams that are facing opponents that always score in auto... if the opponents catch on and don't fire in auto, they can just not fire. |
Re: [FTC]: Robot Capabilities
ok blue (you) did the spin bar now 8 of reds balls are on the floor its the end of auto mode blue has -40 points and red has 0 points so how can that help, think about it
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