Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Ignoring the big red text because it just irritates me to have someone make a post using text THAT irritating despite the fact that we currently know next to nothing. If you credit Autodesk Visualization for helping you find your passion why do you need to have a major company tell you what you can and cannot do. If Autodesk removes the award no one says you have to stop doing animations. Heck, talk to your regional coordinator, it may not be an official award but I am sure that they would be willing to show animations when possible. Go back to team voting on the submissions. No one is stopping you from doing it it just makes a little more work (ok a lot) to give an award.



And also, chill out until we know something more. As a former animator myself I am mildly bothered by this but I have a feeling that it will all work out.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

I disagree with the whole "let's wait and see" mentality. Let's make it known, now, in a polite and professional fashion that the AVA was an important part of FIRST for many people. Maybe it's still around in some form, who knows? But if we let FIRST know it's value NOW, it will help encourage FIRST and Autodesk to continue to keep the award around in their plans and hopefully help it be a part of the upcoming Awards section of the manual.
If it still exists, they may roll their eyes at us and continue. If it doesn't, they'll take notice with time still left to change it.


I was a member of a team where the animation took a very prominant role. It was one of the largest, if not the largest, group of students working on an individual sub-team/project year after year. It was a source of team pride, a powerful promotional tool, and an additional avenue of learning about aspects not directly related to engineering/the robot (such as storyboards, film composition, computer networking, etc.) that wouldn't have been opened if not for the format of the competition. If it changes, even if 3ds max is still incorporated, it may lose a great deal of the other ANIMATION related qualities. Maybe those aren't important to some of you, but to many in FIRST, they are critical. There's a difference between learning to make a 3d model and learning to make a 30-second short film.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Sean, I agree that AVA is a very important part of FIRST. It does attract a group we might not otherwise inspire and it does show students there are different opportunities. I will never say that it is not important or should be eliminated. Nor will I ever tell a student that they should stop working on an animation (even if there is no award) because we need them to build something. It sucks to hear a mentor say that what you are working hard on is something "no one really cares about". I imagine it would suck much harder to hear FIRST come out and say that but I highly doubt that is what they are going to do.

I say we should let FIRST explain their change before we fly off the handle. Expressing a concern about this topic is great, it shows enthusiasm and passion, neither of which are a bad thing when expressed respectfully. Making posts in all caps with a half dozen exclamation points after each sentence is flying off the handle. It does not show passion or enthusiasm it shows ignorance and immaturity. Now, are the concerns voiced valid? I worry they are. This does not mean that we should assume that FIRST is removing our beloved competition. FIRST has usually been pretty good about improvements (they try to be at least). I trust FIRST because they do have a good cause and some brilliant people helping them towards that cause. I am not saying don't express concern, nor am I saying not to question the great and mighty FIRST. Just relax a bit, we know very little about this right now and for all we know it could be a really awesome change.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

I would like to have a clearer understanding of the reasoning behind the retirement of the awards. Further, I would like to have an understanding of why the AVA has not been able to gain a strong foothold in the FRC competition yet it has continued to make an impact on teams and on individuals.

We don't have enough information or know enough about the new award to be able to understand how this will impact the absence of the other two awards. To defend the AVA, at this point, would be to do so without knowing what's coming up in 2010. If we were to begin some form of writing campaign in defense of the AVA, it would, indeed, have to be done mindfully in a professional and polite fashion.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Although there is quite a bit of overlap, Inventor & Autocad are primarily design tools, 3ds Max & Maya are visualization tools.

Maybe the challenge this year will be to design some type device or product (that will help humanity of course), and create a commercial to "market" it. You could do it all in 3ds Max, or if you had a strong CAD team, they could be more involved in the design while the visualization team was working on a creative marketing ideas. Of course both teams would have to work well together to have a chance at winning.

Hmmm... very different teams with diverse skill sets learning how to work together to deliver a winning product? Sounds like they're preparing you for life in the "real world". For example check out this Prius ad. I'm sure CAD software was used to design the car and a creative visualization team was hired to develop the commercial.

But I'm just speculating. Looking forward to the next clue from Autodesk.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

The two awards were nice to have, no doubt, but do we REALLY need an award to motivate groups to do top notch work with any software if the AVA should entirely "go away"? There are many ways 3DS Max projects can be part of the FIRST experience without the award. I bet animation strong programs could make one heck of an animated movie to sell their program and utilize locally. If fact, I think you could do your team's entire Chairman's Award video using Max if you really wanted to.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Wow - I didn't mean to start a panic! I probably should have titled this thread "Major changes in the Autodesk Visualization Award"

We don't know what changes are coming but I'm sure students using 3ds Max will be able to compete for the new award.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Express your concerns.

Now.

Loudly (but respectfully).

Timing is everything.

Just be aware that not every one of these decisions emanate solely or directly from FIRST Headquarters in Manchester. They may be merely the funnel through which information flows from multiple sources. So, should you choose to make your concerns known, you might consider doing so in a manner that is clear, concise, and able to stand alone with no additional supporting information - as that is likely how it may have to be forwarded to the appropriate people.

-dave




...

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

It might be helpful to start a new thread that outlines what we want to do. I'm not sure we would want to hijack this thread for that purpose.

Jane


Edit: ok, I'll start the new thread. I'll think about it for a little while this evening and then start it. In the opening post, I will include the link that Sean included in his post. I'll post a couple of suggestions and if anyone wants to add suggestions, cool. If someone starts a thread before I get finished thinking about it - that's cool, too.

Here's the new thread.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

>>Or maybe we should wait for details before flying off the handle? Yes BB said there would be a restructuring but that was all. Wait until the Awards section comes out and THEN make a call for the reasoning.<<

Hi All,

Andrew has the right idea here. There are changes coming, but nothing is cast in stone yet, so it would be premature to speculate too much.

You will be able to compete with Inventor, Max, or Maya.

Now, having said that, please don't hound me for details, but stay tuned to www.autodesk.com/first for announcements.

Thanks for your patience.

P.S. I will be trying to monitor this site this year to help with 3ds Max related topics. I don't use Maya or Inventor, though.

Later
Ted

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Hi All,

Just adding onto Ted's posting. I will also be monitoring the site this year and will provide help on Inventor related topics.

Phil

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

My team's experience has been that the Autodesk Visualization Award provides a fantastic, creative outlet for team members that are uninterested in or intimidated by more technical work.

I hope that, whatever changes come, some consideration is given to the success that the program has had in the past by engaging students' creative goals and technology simultaneously.

I love CAD work, but it's not for everyone and I'd hate to see that, by eliminating the awards recognizing these unique skills, y'all ascribe higher value to one over the other.

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

>>but it's not for everyone and I'd hate to see that, by eliminating the awards recognizing these unique skills, y'all ascribe higher value to one over the other<<

That's what keeps me coming back every year, Madison. This opens up the process to those who use the other half of the brain (can't remember which is which!!!!).

This is "communication" of ideas rather than hands-on technical stuff and it appeals to a group of people usually that would not feel comfortable getting involved with robots, per se. It's actually tougher to do because it's so subjective, but it doesn't matter how good something is if you can't get the word out.

A prize should not be the goal, although there's no doubt that's certainly an incentive to try and I hope everyone keeps it in perspective.

Thanks for your input.

Ted

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

Phil and Ted in the same CD thread (I'm not trying to rhyme, I'm really not :)). Welcome guys, and thanks for being here.

(and on a side note let me publicly state that working on the Autodesk VEX curriculum project with Phil awhile back was one of the coolest things ever. He's soooo darn good it's mind-blowing)

Re: No more Autodesk Visualization Award?
 

>>Welcome guys, and thanks for being here<<

Thanks much, Rich.

Ted