Re: Game trends
 

Of the 10 past games, six of the games have included objects or field elements in which robots must navigate over or under. 2002, 2005, 2008, and 2009 are the only ones that didn't. I'm not sure you would say this is a trend, but I would be surprised to see yet another flat field in 2010. Start designing those 12" wheels!!!

Re: Game trends
 

Sorry. Also, the comparison I was making was regarding moving fast.

Re: Game trends
 

What is the HDPE?

Re: Game trends
 

I would disagree, one problem with navigating over/under things is that said thing has to be robust (read as probably heavy) and large (read as, heavy++). There are exceptions but in the interests of keeping field costs down I would doubt us having any massive field elements.

Additionally, going over Tetras was a real problem in 2005, I saw quite a few teams try to drive around the field and end up immobile due to getting caught up on a Tetra (either the large goal ones or the small game piece ones)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_polyethylene

Also, breaking my own rule not to say stupid stuff but, yay, 900 posts. Interesting fact, in 100 posts the number of digits in my post count will equal my mental age.

Re: Game trends
 

I might have to disagree, it seems like FLL, FTC and Jr. FLL have all included a general theme the last 2 years, so my guess is that it would continue. The theme isn't really a "game element/trend" I guess it is more of a way for FIRST to say they are trying to inspire kids into solving "real world" problems. Also, it seems like the game pieces have centered around FIRST's logo.

2009:circle (orbit ball)
2008:circle (giant ball)
2007:circle (inflatable ring)
2006:circle (NERF ball)
2005:triangle
2004:circle
2003:square(i think)
2002:circle(also scoring receptacle design was recycled as trailers in 2009)
2001:circle
2000:circle

You get my point. So, my guess is this year will incorporate a circle, square, or triangle.

Re: Game trends
 

The logo theory has been debunked repeatedly in as far as I recall.

As for the theme, there has always been a theme to FLL, remember, we are dealing with 8yr olds who have no attention span so the FLL game tends to be very story oriented to hold attention.

Re: Game trends
 

Keep in mind that FLL also has a research part to it. The themes aren't just to keep the kids interested, but to give them something to research.

Re: Game trends
 

If we pay attention to everything that Dean and Woodie and Dave talk about when they are directing their attention to the potential and the impact that FLL, FTC, and FRC can make on changing the culture, it becomes very clear that trends run much more deeply than the playing surface or the game element or the slope of the ramp or its absence.

If you want an opportunity to gain some terrific insight into that vision and that commitment, attend an FLL event. Volunteer at the competition. Talk to the teams. Talking to their mentors is awesome and inspiring but if you talk to the students, you gain a very clear understanding of their grasp of what Dr.Flowers and Dean Kamen are saying. When you get that, then you understand FRC a little more fully. And then - you can begin to think about trends in a little different way.

Jane

Re: Game trends
 

I am so tired of circle game pieces, I really want to see a ramp and rectangle game, sort of like 2003.

Re: Game trends
 

I agree totally. I would also like to see a team on team battle much like this year, where robotics was more like a sporting event, instead of each team trying to complete more of the task than the other. Personally i would like that better.

Back on topic, it would be interesting to see a large change in a common rule this year, like a drastic change in the maximum size of the robot just to switch things up, its almost like we're in a rut here with the same size bots and the ball thing. Maybe I'm wrong but that would be neat. Also, there isn't really a color trend, i was thinking about that earlier...

Re: Game trends
 

Aren't we already past 3 years? 2007-2009 had no ramps. I guess 2007 did if you count the one's people put on their robots, but even then we are at two years.

Re: Game trends
 

Or a game with multi-shaped game pieces? Like filling bins with balls, then putting those bins somewhere? We haven't seen that yet..

Re: Game trends
 

I would not be surprised if that ended up being the objective of the game this year. In another thread, a game hint consisted of boxes and cans, which could mean multi-shaped game pieces. However, there is no portion of the hint that gives out a possibility of a putting pieces in bins (that doesn't mean we should give up on that idea though). ;)

Re: Game trends
 

FIRST games don't follow trends, although there are a few randomly repeating themes. However, there are some general "constants" and apparent trends in the overall FIRST program.

Randomly Repeating Themes:
- Spherical vs. non-spherical game piece (with emphasis on FRC logo shapes)
- Single game piece handling (2008, 2007, 2005, etc.) vs. Bulk handling (2009, 2006, etc.)
- "Flat" floor (2009, 2008, 2005, etc.) vs. "Climbing required" (2007, 2006, 2004, etc.)
- Expanding robot envelope (2008, 2007, 2005, etc.) vs. fixed robot envelope (2009, 2006, etc.)
- An unusual feature thrown in to keep us off balance (2009 floor/wheels, 2008 "hybrid" period, etc., etc., etc.)

General Constants (but never assume anything...)
- 27' x 54' field (the basic field perimeter structure is re-used each year)
- 3 vs. 3 matches (drivers stations are part of the basic field structure)
- Max robot starting size about 28x38x60 in, 120 lb. (fit through standard door, fit existing crates, 2 students can carry, etc.)
- Autonomous period, teleoperated period, end game (usually involves a different task)
- A game that works for both rookie and veteran teams
- A camera that tracks a target light/color to assist in acquiring the game piece
- Achieving the basic game task quickly while being defended is the key to victory (duh!)
- No water games!

Apparent FIRST Trends:
- Cost reduction via re-use of parts, smaller venues (set up by volunteers), self-transport of robots, etc.
- Increased "value" for the money (more matches per event, more events per team, fewer teams per event)
- Summary: Michigan District format.

Re: Game trends
 

217 had a shooter that launched over robots. 1114 later replace their shooter to do this (based on 217's design, I presume) and seemed to use the feature more frequently than 217. I've only seen 217 shoot over robots when it had a Supercell. 1114 used their shooter even when they weren't being held against a wall, while 217 seemed to prefer driving around until they could push the opponent from the side and fire down.

Part of that might have been since 217's shooter was on the front of their robot, another robot that incurred under 217's intake could block their over-the-top shooter (2775 did this in an IRI mentor match). 1114's shooter was located farther from the front of their robot, so they could more easily shoot over the top of other robots.

I have this gut feeling that I know far, far more about the functionality and scoring style of other team's robots than I ever should know.