Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WA!!!
 

Simply put, this is a valid concern, and a well written post. Just a terribly worded title. Don't jump on a guy for his choice of title, just read the post and make your comments. I believe he has a very valid concern and it does raise a few issues. I know of another volunteer who was overworked, under appreciated who ended up leaving FIRST because of it.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

As a follow up and lengthier explanation:

The above letter was passed around the offices in Manchester and resulted in the FIRST Volunteer Coordinator (Dennis Howland) calling me and having an hour long productive discussion. I reinforced my VIMS concerns and thankfully, a new version of VIMS is tentatively scheduled to be rolled out that should address some of my concerns. I also reinforced my support for the volunteer passport system (Yay!).

Dennis confirmed to me that the final decision at the Regional level lies with the volunteer coordinator, and that regional board members are not supposed to have any influence over the decision making process. This is not the case in Michigan, however. We agreed on this and agreed to work with the MI people to resolve this issue. Unfortunately, I just had a prearranged conversation with the MI Volunteer Coordinator who informed me that the Michigan board was refusing to talk with me, refused to tell me what vile, despicable act I performed to deserve being blacklisted, and was further restricting my volunteering to Robot Inspector only.

He further told me that the reason I was being restricted was because the Michigan board has set up new "qualifications" in order to be permitted to volunteer in Michigan. My refereeing, DJing, announcing, and MCing experience were apparently not enough to "qualify" me to be permitted to volunteer in Michigan. This is the part that is completely unacceptable. When power-mad bureaucrats are choosing who is allowed to volunteer and who isn't, and nobody is willing to stand up for the volunteers, somebody has to spread the word.

I have no illusions about what I'm doing. I'm perfectly aware that by posting this information on Chief Delphi, I'm pretty much signing my death warrant as far as volunteering in Michigan is concerned. But if getting the information out forces National FIRST to crack down on this insanity and Michigan is forced to permit volunteers that don't suck up to their power structure, then I'm willing to martyr myself for that end.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WA!!!
 

Not against FIRST. Against the corrupt Michigan FIRST group. It's like the difference between Al Qaida and Al Qaida in Iraq. Same name, same goals, different organization.

Clearly you didn't read through my letter. I explain in it that I find their humility and respect admirable for not speaking up, but I am not that humble.

MI VC is gutless, MI has no regional director anymore, just the Board which refuses to talk with me, Michigan has no oversight from HQ AFAIK. So I went to the top. Thank you for your comment on my tone. I aimed to keep emotion out of what is already a tangled, messy situation.

As for the title, I should've scaled back on the rhetoric and went with "This is UNACCEPTABLE!" instead. But it did catch some attention, and the only bad press is no press at all.

Thank you for not having an opinion on this matter. Graciously.:rolleyes:

Actually, I wrote it in March, sent it in August, and continue to stand by practically every word in it. Both rtfgnow and Formerly Famous are partially correct on my motives.

Everyone else, if CD isn't the appropriate place for FIRST related discussions that affect a large percentage of us, then where is? Frankly, what I'm asking CD is - what the heck is a person in our situation to do? If anyone has any better ideas on what I should have done (other than going to hell), I'd love to hear them.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

I chuckled at the highlighted contradiction in pronouns a little :rolleyes: :p Also: This. Is. Sparta! (ok ok I'm only here for comic relief)

On a serious note: (I'm not going to comment on if Swando's post belongs in the public domain or not.)

What I am wondering is if FIRST as a whole, or Regional Directors/VCs, should be allowed to pass judgement on something like this. A bad call from the past really doesn't seem like it deems a blacklisted volunteer.

My question is: Unless there's a significant negative effect of a certain person volunteering, is it really, oh hell I'll say the word, "fair" for FIRST to publish someone on a blacklist based on trivial impetus?

Also, I'm curious how you came to this conclusion, Craig. Care to elaborate?

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WA!!!
 

I, as someone who had, has, and will continue to have high hopes for the success of FIRST in Michigan and across the globe must say that I hope you realize that not everyone in Michigan is "corrupt" some of us truly care.

Sorry Dan but I would hope that personal attacks were beneath you. Regardless of whether the VC is actually gutless you shouldn't say it. Having doubts, disagreements, or concerns is fine but insults undermine your credibility and add nothing to your argument.
As someone who has seen Dan at several events and talked to him about similar things I don't think he wants war against FIRST or that he wants FiM to fail. I think (and he can correct me if I am wrong) that he wants it to succeed thinks openness is a requirement. I remember parts of this letter from a discussion in Atlanta. I don't think Dan is angry, he sees a wrong and is trying to right it. Plus, if there is a problem we shouldn't just ignore it. If someone who has been involved in FIRST as long as Dan sees a problem and it eats away at him for 8 months and he goes so far as to write a letter to FIRST HQ and have a phone conversation he is clearly not just complaining.

If FIRST HQ sees fit to respond to this we shouldn't just disregard it. CD is a place for discussion. This isn't internal team politics, this is stuff that affects every last one of us. If it isn't good to discuss it and get word out I want to know why.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WA!!!
 

For the first part of the quote: How is that really scaling back? Any time you have all caps and an exclamation point, that isn't really scaled back. Perhaps simply, "I Kept Quiet for too Long" would convey the same point without the un-needed yelling.

For the second part: I really don't care. Sorry to say it, but I'm not really concerned about your personal vendetta with FIRST(or whatever you want to call it). I'm more concerned about having a peaceful place I can give and take advice. Someplace that I can go to socialize and get away from the hostilities of the modern day. CD is kind of an escape for me from the every day hustle and bustle. Realize, I am not saying to not pursue it. I'm just saying that there simply might not be a place for such a public outcry. At least not currently. My suggestion would be for you(or anyone) to make one if you(or they) see it as necessary. I really suggest against public announcements such as this. They are generally used to create group hostility to support one's cause without the group having enough knowledge to really be hostile. So, I guess my advice would be to deal with it yourself and move on.

This is my last post in this thread. I've already given more time into this then I really should have. If someone has questions for me personally, please direct them to me via PM. I have no plans to follow this thread any further, however I do feel obligated to explain any part of this post if there is sincere confusion.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WA!!!
 

I read this thread and your letter. I think all of us can agree that FIRST is not perfect and from what it seems like, you have been treated quite unfairly. It happens to the bulk of us and what you posted is still personal. At least, you put in some effort to help make the volunteering process better in your opinion.

That's about the best you can do.

After giving FIRST HQ and Michigan FIRST your two cents, there is not a lot you can do to control their actions.

You can't force them into giving you a position you want if they refuse to give it to you. If you are confident in your skill set, then maybe you should move on to another regional district or any other activities (maybe beyodn FIRST). I'd rather go where I am welcome.

In my dealings, I always remember this one phrase - "The value of a bar of gold is always going to remain the same".

Good luck.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

The only thing I want to say to all this is ...

"FIRST isn't what it used to be anymore. It makes me upset and it makes me question many things."

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

Ditto to that- Volunteers are people who should be treasured- not used as commodities.

When the FIRST world finally realizes they are a volunteer organization and not a mega-corporation with paid labor we will all be better off.

WC :cool:

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

I can understand the need to keep a list of people who are and who are not allowed to volunteer for certain duties. I think everyone who has been a member of a FIRST team can confirm that certain people simply shouldn't be doing certain jobs (even if they don't realize it).

However, the creating, maintaining, and auditing of that list is absolutely critical. Obviously it needs to be kept secret: telling a worthwhile volunteer that, for instance, they simply don't have skills to be an electrical robot inspector can be very hurtful to the individual.

Dan seems to have approached all the avenues of communication. Now, feeling that he'd run out of options, he went for the nuclear option. I can understand that and sympathize with it.

I certainly hope that Dan's airing of this 'dirty laundry' results in a positive reviewing of Michigan First policy and a formalizing of the system for 'blacklisting' people. Unfortunately, and much more commonly, an action like this results in a circling of the political wagons and the immediate commencement of damage control.

FIRST In Michigan is a new organization, and is certain to have some growing pains. So far they've done an outstanding job of laying out and trying something new: reactions have been incredibly positive. I sincerely hope they continue that postive growth by taking this as a postive cry for help that they can help to resolve.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

Dan,
I am sorry you have kept this to yourself for so long. Several of the people above are taking that immediate, knee jerk reaction to bringing such a subject before the masses. I have to agree but only to a point.
I have known Dan for a long time now. It seems like only yesterday but it must be close to ten years now, when I first met him as a student. Dan, is a quiet individual who has worked tirelessly for First in any position needed and many times filled in when others were absent or failed to achieve their goals. First runs on the experience of it's volunteers and the outstanding work they perform. Although I am not aware of all of Dan's abilities, I would not hesitate to have him as a Robot Inspector. I know he would be fair, helpful and would act with GP in performing his tasks. Good luck in your quest, Dan.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

Point 1.

From what I understood his email was not about not being able to do the job he wanted. Yes. He was mad about that. But by looking at this email as a whole is covers that fact that, yes, he was unable to do his job. Why? Because of something that happened that he saw no problem with at the time. He was then blacklisted. And not told. (Personally, I think a person has a right to be told when they have been blacklisted) This hurt his chances of volunteering at all. So overall, He is not crying about not getting the spot he wanted. But instead addressing the simple problem he was faced with. He was blacklisted, not allowed to work where he desired due to being blacklisted, not told until AFTER someone and changed where he said he wanted to. And on top of that, lied to.

That is just what I got out of his letter. I didn't hear crying as I read it but a calm voice with passion behind it. Could you please explain to me how you came to your conclusion?


Point 2.

On the note of FIRST isn't ours, if not the teams, then whose is it? If not for those who help run it, how could it be here? Who exactly does it belong to?

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

I feel like this is honestly a situation that could happen to anyone. If this was based off of a team-related issue, I would agree that it does not belong on Chief Delphi. However, this is a FIRST-related issue that, theoretically, could affect anyone. I do not believe that Dan posted this to gain sympathy or to necessarily rally us against FiM/FIRST, but to make us citizens of the CD community- the dedicated students, mentors, sponsors, volunteers- aware of a situation that probably DOES affect a handful of people across the globe.

Also - after reading this thread, I do not believe that Dan was trying to bash FiM, or that his actions in regards to whom he contacted were out of line. Dan, would I be correct in saying that, had FiM not existed and the same events were to occur with the Volunteer Coordinator and Regional Director not getting back to you, that your position and actions would remain the same?

Many people tend to jump the gun when making decisions, which is what happened here. It is very hard to judge the outcome of a situation without ALL of the background information, and sometimes there are not enough hours in a day (or several days) to get all of the information and talk to all sources.

The only part of this that I just cannot understand is why anyone would make decisions such as this without informing all parties involved.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

I wasn't going to step in, and I still won't involve myself with any of Dan's statements, because I'm unaware of any details, BUT...

After working as an understudy to the Boston VC last year (I'll be a co-VC in '10), I just would like to say that not all VCs treat their volunteers as commodities. One very unfortunate isolated incident doesn't mean that ALL volunteers are treated as such, or that all VCs are the same. I happen to have a wonderful appreciation of the time our volunteers put in to the regional- I've been a volunteer -for FLL, FTC, FRC, FIRSTPlace, you name it- for many years myself, so I understand the commitment.

I'm sorry this happened, but I certainly hope that this doesn't scare people away from volunteering. Volunteers are the only reason FIRST events run at all. One bad apple -if that's what this is- shouldn't have to spoil the bunch.

Re: I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!
 

But one should be very careful what actions they use to attempt to correct it, and be wary of the consequences they may have.