Chief Delphi - Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79310)

JesseK

16-12-2009 09:10

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Keep in mind that not all discussion will take place in the main wave. If a subset of people have an idea, then they can start a new wave to discuss the idea and invite the appropriate people. As the discussion intensifies, people who have done something before (such as swerve, etc) could be invited for their input.

This is where the wave bots would come in, so that pieces of the main wave are copied into the new wave.

Polls could be placed in the main wave as well in order to gauge initial thoughts from a larger perspective.

Renee Becker-Blau

16-12-2009 14:24

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

1. clowdude (Wiifi, FRC2470)
2. j3ffr3ym (Jeff_801, FRC801)
3. rharo.jr (robodude03, FRC399)
4. burmeister.twosevennine (Burmeister #279, FRC279)
5. demosthenes2k8 (demosthenes2k8, FRC166)
6. njsmith04401 (Nate Smite, FRC000)
7. rtfgnow (rtfgnow, FRC79)
8. failbolt (Karibou, FRC1189)
9. wikichris (Chris is me, FRC1714)
10. boydean (Boydean, FRC2430)
11. brendan.w.browne (BrendanB, FRC1519)
12. aticris (JesseK, FRC1885)
13. rcthekid1323 (rc_cola1323, FRC1323)
14. edwardspartan (EdwardP, FRC971)
15. fang.eugene (pikat, FRC604)
16. nickeyre1 (NickE, FRC254)
17. 4apage (big1boom, FRC2022)
18. jtkellertx(James Tonthat, FRC1477)
19. kpmcgurk(Mcgurky, FRC1716)
20. JDTemple1 (AcesJames, FRC176)
21. 1986titans (1986tians, FRC 1986)
22. mikewadsten (hyperdude, FRC 2503)
23. IndySAM.frc829 (IndySam, FRC 829)
24. Jonathan (Jon236,FRC236)
25. 360skier (360skier, FRC1334)
26. mark.kramarczyk (kramarczyk, FRC1189 & FRC3096)
27. etotheix (iCurtis, FRC1276)
28. jonathannorris (Jonathan Norris, FRC2809)
29. cbolinger (Oris, FRC2337)
30. NorviewsVeteran (NorviewsVeteran, FRC&FTC 1793)
31. Gregadeaux (Greg, FRC 930)
32. francis.orourke (Francis-134, FRC 190)
33. keehun (keehun, FRC 2502)
34. AlexMcDuffMiller (MasterAlex, FRC 2175)
35. rsisk101 (rsisk, FRC2493)
36. MRL2222 (mikeleslie, FRC1189)
37. iAcre (Arcre, FRC 2504)
38. borna.emami(BornaE, FRC39)
39. alancop (n/a, FRC1716)
40. oliarshem (n/a, FRC1716)
41. gary.chidong08 (CHI DONG08, FRC1323)
42. jakepwarren (SuperJake, FRC61)
43. jlaw8457 (Jason Law, FRC2834)
44. cubing.rox (Jyang, FRC604)
45. racerdude09 (dsst\neal.ian, FRC2240)
46. cynettesc (cynette, FRC1511)
47. darkember375 (darkember, FRC375)
48. jimaustin1902 (James1902, FRC1902)
49. JEvanRaitt (Tetraman, FRC174)
50. kandrew279 (n/a, FRC279)
51. rblight (ricksta, FRC78)
52. samcouch91 (SamC, FRC330)
53. rgleichman (RobertG, FRC0000)
54. CBPetrovic (CBPetrovic, FRC166)
55. 166.FIRST (166.FIRST, FRC166)
56. mikelowry (tromballer, FRC1771)
57. Gamer930 (Gamer930, FRC171)
58. gneedel (Greg Needel, FRC2775)
59. libby.kamen (Libby Kamen, FRC1923/229)
60. coach.norm (Norman Morgan, FRC 2468)
61. 4nna.bananna (Bananna, FRC 840)
62. jsneeringer23 (rulesall2, FRC2791)
63. DDaw735 (David Dawson, FRC 2673)
64. austin.linux (AustinSchuh, FRC 971/254)
65. Vikesrock (Vikesrock, FRC 2175)
66. Littleswimmer14 (Littleswimmer14, FRC 1675)

Rion Atkinson

16-12-2009 14:55

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Malice

16-12-2009 15:48

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

RobertG

17-12-2009 00:25

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Since this wave is public, an easy way to access it is to type "with: public tag:kickoff" into the Wave search bar. So far this wave is the only result. After clicking on the wave click the "Follow" button and it will appear in your inbox.

JesseK

17-12-2009 09:13

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Ok guys, we have some decisions to make. Simply put, our web browsers will not be able to handle the amount of traffic that will occur on kickoff day with 100+ people on the wave. With 3 people typing at once yesterday firefox was hitting 500MB of memory and 100% cpu time. It'd also be practically inefficient to try to read what 100+ people are typing all at once anyways. So I'd like to propose working groups. These would be groups of people on a waves of whom are attending different regionals, work on different subsystems, etc.

If we want to start a MWR wave, for example, then we'd go to the "Regional Competitions" forum and start a thread just for those attending that regional. We can discuss strategies, robots, CA, how to help teams through inspections (especially those who don't think they need any help...), etc. As a more public and permanent place to put those types of things, we can start a CD thread with the results.

What do you guys & gals think?

Rion Atkinson

17-12-2009 09:30

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 888784)

That's a wonderful idea. :D I just see one problem... The Oklahoma City Regional have 55 team. Yes I know that is a lot, but we still have a problem. Being a young regional; all the teams tend to keep to themselves. I don't know of anyone that goes to our regional that is even on Chief Delphi. (Now this isn't saying much. I do tend to be the uninformed one.) But I don't think many of the teams check here enough to benefit from the waves anymore than they would from CD.

That being said. Where would someone like myself go? I am pretty sure I am not the only one in this situation. I could stick with CD only seeing as I have no wave to join. Or would I find a Wave about drivetrains, end effectors, or chassis that was meant for another regional? What would you suggest?

Andrew Schreiber

17-12-2009 10:06

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous (Post 888786)

First, I would suggest that you remedy the problem of the teams keeping to themselves. :)

I would also suggest you find a Wave about something you are interested in and contribute, I would make a bet that no one in the FIRST community would be unwilling to welcome a person contributing new ideas or viewpoints.

ATannahill

17-12-2009 11:56

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

I would like to remind people that Wave is in preview. I should also remind you how much Brandon and all of CD has done to make this forum a resource for teams. Let's not pack everything up and move over to Wave. We are settled here as a forum. Wave is for instant chats. We seem to be confused.

JesseK

17-12-2009 12:30

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

That's the idea Alex, to do a sort of instantaneous chat about the game, etc. The hope would be to condense the first few days after kickoff into just a few hours, then put higher quality discussions on CD. It also may alleviate chit-chat bandwidth from CD.

It would also give Brendan inherent feedback on upgrade options, should the CD website ever move to html 5.0 or (::shudder::) wave itself. There are features of Wave that are html 5.0 features, and perhaps smaller upgrades can be made over time. I don't think Wave is appropriate for these forums because I don't think engineers really want to know what each other is thinking in real time. We need some sort of delay after typing a heated discussion out, giving us a chance to re-read it before the world sees it.

JaneYoung

17-12-2009 12:39

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

It seems that when posters leave ChiefDelphi and post in other places involving FRC discussions such as matches that occur during district, regional, and Championship competitions, the discussions take a downturn regarding respect towards teams, competitors, individuals, and FIRST. This doesn't do much in the way of spreading inspiration to others - it rather makes for opportunities to create ugly reputations. Networking and communicating among teams and individuals can be a very good thing. It can also be a bad thing if misused.

.02

Daniel_LaFleur

17-12-2009 12:43

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneYoung (Post 888819)

Jane is absolutely correct.

When you post (anywhere), please remember that what you post and how you phrase things, reflect directly upon yourself and many times upon your team (company, associates, etc).

Andrew Schreiber

17-12-2009 14:15

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneYoung (Post 888819)

While I agree with this sentiment in a general sense I have to disagree for this specifically. I have read almost every item posted to the Wave (what would these be called, Wavelets? Molecules?) I saw nothing worse than what I have seen on CD. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that I felt the quality of discussion was almost higher than much of what I have seen on CD. Maybe not quite as technical or as inspiring but it has been incredibly respectful. I have been quite surprised at the politeness and professionalism that has seemed to be the norm. The conversations, while fragmented and chaotic, have not devolved into name calling or insults.

I have also been very interested in the social behavior of the participants. Because of the way that Waves are set up every single user is a moderator. You can go in and edit anyone else's post or delete it. I think part of the reason people are acting much better is that if you post "hey guyz i thin such and such is stoopeed" and then go back and edit it people can still see what you originally posted.

However, I don't see Wave as ever replacing Email or Forums. It may replace IM (it is built off the XMPP protocol which is the same system Google Talk works on) and may be wonderful as a collaboration tool but becomes chaotic as soon as more than a dozen people are involved.

I can foresee Wave become a useful tool for collaboration, 397 will be making an attempt at using it to help keep the electronics/programming mentors in sync because of scheduling conflicts breaking them up. Wave is currently a solution in search of a problem in my opinion.

EDIT: I misread the intent of Jane's post, I do have to agree that communication is a wonderful tool if used properly and that we all need to exert great effort into communicating in an efficient, accurate, and respectful manner.

JaneYoung

17-12-2009 14:30

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

My thinking goes something like this:

The game reveal brings about a lot of reactions. Some of the reactions are often knee-jerk reactions filled with or powered by emotion. Oftentimes, posters don't give themselves a chance to study the game or read the rules. They don't give themselves an opportunity to explore different strategic opportunities provided by the game. The threads here in CD that discuss the games revealed at the Kick-offs are crazy and often go up and down like a roller coaster, filled with the many various reactions.

When you have groups gathering in Google Wave or other places, it could become chaotic and obnoxious at the same time, if posters are not mindful of what they are posting when they post. My grandfather would scold me and tell me that I am 'just borrowing trouble'. That means, I'm saying something bad will happen before it has even had an opportunity to occur. Realizing that, I would still encourage FIRSTers to take the high road when discussing the game or anything else FRC related. There are ways to express displeasure or disagreement without being crude, rude, or ugly.

Signed,
My Grandfather's granddaughter. :)

Rion Atkinson

17-12-2009 15:49

Re: Official Google Wave Kickoff Thread

I have to agree with you Jane. Many people would indeed post knee-jerk reactions, some bad, some good. And wave does allow this to happen faster. But my thought process goes along these lines:

Those who allow these knee-jerk reactions to happen also often times(I'm not saying always) are people who tend to not follow through on things, and not do research. Via that description; they would not be on the wave. They would have had to do research, get an invite, sign up, and then join the wave. This process can be long. Those with knee-jerk reactions would just go "Oh, I don't have a wave. Forget it." I know this for one reason; this person used to be me.

I also agree the it would become chaotic. But it would be organized chaos. reason being is that the ones who took the time to get a wave are the time who are dedicated. They will make sure things are understandable. Thus, everything will be happening fast, but it will be organized.

My two cents.
-Rion

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