Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

Only if the rails are at an angle downward, but theres no evidence to suggest that. I mean, of course gravity is involved, these objects have mass. All angles on these supports are are normal or orthagonal to the rails, if anything that means that the structure must be either parallel or perpendicular to it's supports and load, meaning it would be level, or straight up and down. Not exactly the best way to design rails you hope balls were slide/roll down. IF this is a rail system, its most likely perfectly level, and therefore designed to hold, not transport the game pieces.

As for problems with how shallow the rails are, I agree that that would make it pretty easy for balls to bounce out. But I dont think the problem would be as bad for cylinders. Furthermore, de-scoring as been part of games in the past.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

Many people think that this field object is for a rail system that is to hold or convey scoring objects such as balls. What if these rails are part of a system of movable goals? Such as the cars of a roller coaster. Any of these images look familiar?



or



and who says it needs to be used in only one orientation?



As you can see there is also a convenient curve in the bracket between the rails which is similar to that lexan bracket.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

One of my friends and i were talking about it and be both thought it looked like some type of sled. However, after reading 19 pages of opinions my brain is about to explode with ideas. I started wondering the refraction showed that the sides are parallel, but not identical. I also really like the "track" idea that people are thinking of, it would make for an interesting game.

One of the advisers on my team is convinced that the game will be impossible to play without the camera and and last year was to figure out how it works for this year.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

One thing that strikes me about it being a track for a cart is that the lexan bracket seems like it would get in the way of any wheels holding onto the "backside" of the bars, keeping the "carts" from being pulled off. So, unless the robots had to place carts onto the track (which might make for a kind of boring game), the "carts" would get knocked off easily.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

Why not just allow descoring? It was perfectly legal in FIRST Tech Challenge Hot Shot this year.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

I do not know all the rules but I believe there is something saying you can't reach out to the 10 point goals or block the 5 point goals by reaching into them or moving them by way of something besides the bar (as I remember that is the only way to remove the balls). So you are only able to descore the 1 point balls.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

Oh my god it just hit me, Cirque Du Soleil, what if we have a challenge involving having our robots of the ground it's been part of it a FIRST game before and it would certainly be an interesting challenge to lift yourself up.

At Ruckus this year there was a vex competition as well that was based off of a previous FTC game.
http://ruckus.penfieldrobotics.com/vex/

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

That's what I was talking about, the main point is it's not like FIRST has always condemned the act of descoring an opponents points. It was also allowed in 2007 Rack n Roll, technically it's "negating via the spoiler tubes", but the concept is the same to lower points your opponent previously gained.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

That doesn't seem fair to the rookie teams that will be joining this year. FIRST has and always will, I believe, to make the playing field as equal as possible. Last year, it was by adding lowered friction.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

That is the downfall of being a rookie team having the experience that veterans have they will always be at an advantage. Rookie teams just need to work harder and think smarter in order to try and level the field themselves.

Also if there is no camera this year than what was the point of introducing it last year photorecognition is something that is very important in robotic systems and I think it would almost be an insult not to include it.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

I like the idea of having robots off the ground, but I don't think this piece could be used to do it. That was one of the first things I thought about when I saw this, not as a track for balls, but for robots or carts, but because of the orientation of the lexan and the larger tube, it doesn't look like it could really function as a track for anything with wheels.

roller coaster wheels

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

Considering last year there was a floor change, what if this year...we aren't allowed to use the floor AT ALL, and must move robots around on rails.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

A few comments - if the lexan piece were to hold or act as a hanger for game pieces, there is no reason for the holes that have been placed in it. These look like they are designed to attach it to something in a permanent fashion

In my brief experience with FIRST, and in reading about the older games, I feel that the GDC goes into exsquisite detail as they plan for every year. I think that they make game design and rules not only to change the format every year, but also to level the playing field. With Overdrive, blocking an opponent was forbidden, but has not been in many other years. With Overdrive, blocking would have made the game too easy for a defensive strategy to dominate. With Lunacy, not allowing expansion of the robot outside of the basic configuration limited the efficacy of scoring and prevented blocking shots on your trailer.

Therefore, the methods of scoring and allowance (or disallowance) of de-scoring will be based more on what it will take to have a multi-facted game - one in which multiple game strategies and thus robot designs can flourish. Otherwise, everyone will make the same robot, drive it the same way, and be bored to tears.

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

That's interesting. Is there a link that you can provide that supports this statement?

Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
 

I really don't think it's FIRST's job to make the playing field "more equal".... and they definitely didn't do that with the regolith - it was a challenge for both veterans and rookies - each year EVERYONE has the same chance at greatness.

If anything the cRIO made things "more equal".