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Re: [BB] 2010 Game Hint #1
Dave has been posting a lot today. I'm trying to update his morris code list and I have to edit my post every 10 min.:rolleyes:
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Can we make sure to schedule nap and snack time intermissions in this year's kick-off broadcast? |
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Spoiler for This is only one level deep, I promise:
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I would have to say reading the manual is very important. Last year we started coming up with ideas for the robot and one idea was to make it impossible to score on us. We then read the manual and discover that we weren't able to do any of the ideas we had come up with. This year I am definitely bringing my laptop to kickoff and getting the rules up on my computer before we get back to school to start working.
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I just want to know if 148 can now assign JVN 4 hours of shop cleaning duty for participating in this thread... ;) ....
we now return you to regularly scheduled programming |
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I also vote for the legalization of Magic to complete our bots, and potions to heal their wounds. Common decency. |
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Would the amber-colored polycarbonate be used to protect a lens or stabilize light in some way, regardless of the lighting conditions presented in different venues?
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It could be used in lighting effects as it has some interesting properties when light is injected into it ... but for these effects to be seen the field lights would need to be dimmed. I think Jane is starting to ask the right questions though. From a materials property point of view, why would the GDC use a non-standard sized, molded (or bent) piece of smoked polycarbonate? What benefits (over AL or steel) would justify its use? |
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I wasn't pointing at this as to be some kind of bad habit of the team as a whole. It was always that one or two kids that were always goofing off that suggested the "Iron curtain". It made much more sense to show that person(s) Gracious Professionalism as a reason we couldn't do that kind of robot then it would be to drag out the rule book and point to a rule. We always tried to get the point of FIRST to all our team members, and that was one way we did it. You are right though, there have always been sloppy process in brainstorming/designing. I can't tell you the amount of times someone proposed an idea and the Rule Expert of the team said "We can't do that, it violates this rule", rather then everyone knowing/searching the rules. We just never changed that kind of behavior because we still got along without. @ Jamie_1930 Please stop complaining. You had the resources. Rob, Alex, Liz, and all the other mentors that gave just as much to keep the team alive were your experience that you claim 1930 lacked. You're right, we didn't have the kind of school support or money to make ourselves a top-tier FIRST team, but with the other Liz, myself and the artistic team we found ourselves with an Imagery award, which some - not all, but some - team members passed off as a joke. There was nothing wrong with 1930, its resources, it's students, it's mentors, it's school, or level of experience. We just didn't make it all the way. Other rookie teams have made off even better then us. It's not a fault in the system, it's just how things work out sometimes. As for brainstorming/designing, listen to Dave. He's actually right. EDIT: If you want to complain at me for saying this, do so in a PM, not in this thread. @ Everyone else I apologize for my derailing of this thread. Let us continue with the topic at hand. |
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If you will note Dave's picture and the Boxcar Willie Overpass.
He may be adding to the game hint. http://www.texasescapes.com/DEPARTME...xcarWillie.htm " But my favorite part of this procedure, is the approach we take when finalizing our instructions. It's almost always concluded with, "If you get to 'such-in-such', you've gone too far." " Also: My favorite ritual in our county, though, is giving directions to visitors and guests. None of us really know the name of streets or roads, we just know that there are usually two ways to get anywhere. This may connect with the idea stated in Dave's "Morse Code": "Nothing Is As/What It Appears to Be What Is". Additionally, the pseudonym "Boxcar Willie" aka Lecil Travis Martin. Martin, who was once sitting at a railroad crossing and a fellow that closely resembled his chief boom operator, Willie Wilson, passed by sitting in a boxcar. He said, "There goes Willie." He pulled over and wrote a song entitled "Boxcar Willie". (wikipedia) We may have to pull game pieces from a track mechanism, or place them on it. Robots may be able to move the game pieces back and forth. There may be an endgame where robots will have to choose between a final position (hanging in 2004), or moving the pieces on a track to gain further points. The Lexan piece may be a divider on the track or tracks that awards points to the alliance who can adjust its position successfully. IMHO, this is fun but frivolous speculation to get us to warm up our brains for the upcoming challenge of the next six weeks. Happy New Year! Blue Moon on New Years Eve. Cool Universe indeed. |
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now look at the picture from a different perspective, what if that is a scaled model of the field! That would also make sense about the overpass post because of that giant overpass in the middle! maybe the holes that you see are scoring positions. I found that the ratio between the length and the width of the hint was ~.57. This could a representation of the field because the ratio for the field every year is .5. Just some food for thought.
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The animation allows us to visualize the game. The manual allows us to play the game legally. Know both. |
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so, we know "nothing is what it appears to be" and that the game MIGHT be abou "going green" and all that stuff. ALSO this year, teams will be getting DartFish vision software. So, the picture lets us "see" the game, but nothing is what it appears to be, so its not a picture that we got as a hint, its actually saying we CAN'T see the feild. Now the other stuff, highly reliant on the robot's vision system (yes i know we dont have enough bandwidth to do this, but with the new system, we theoretically should be able to with almost no issue)would make it difficult to see broad areas of the feild. This would be EXTREEMLY hard if there were small parts all over the feild that we had to pick up, and organize into bins of some sort.......
just a thought |
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that would be...
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Back to the game ‘theme’ for a second, here are a few historical anniversaries for 2010:
400 years ago: Galileo discovers Jupiter’s 4 largest moons and observes Saturn’s Rings 125 years ago: the roller coaster is patented by LaMarcus Thompson 100 years ago: Ray Bradbury is born, 1st airplane flight from the deck of a ship, New York’s Penn Station opens as world’s largest 75 years ago: the spectrometer is patented by Arthur Hardy, Amelia Earhart flies solo across the Pacific, first demonstration of RADAR by Scottsman Robert Watson-Watt 50 years ago: LASER patented by Arthur Schawlow and Charles Townes, US launches first weather satellite, Navy bathyscaphe ‘Trieste’ descends to deepest point in the Pacific, Hoover Dam is completed, first Playboy club opens in Chicago 25 years ago: Coca-Cola changes the secret formula for Coke, then changes it back 3 months later |
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I get a chuckle out of this whole guessing game. That's probably why I keep doing it.....
What if this is actually a KOP component this year, much like the game pieces have been in years past? 125 years ago: the roller coaster is patented by LaMarcus Thompson Train systems / light rail / mass transit is quite "green", and frankly that thing in the picture reminds me of a mass-transit elevated rail. Perhaps this will be less about the actual game pieces on that device, and more about a small electric cart with scoring locations running around on an elevated rail system :) |
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Jupiter and Saturn are kinda sorta really far away (telescope?), roller coasters, airplanes, Penn Station (trains), flight across the pacific (distance/transportation), radar (detecting objects from a distance), satellite launch (more distance), descent (depth-->distance). |
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Now if we take Dave's morse code and add in the fact of the anniversary of the roller coaster, and the fact that FLL was about transportation - we have something to do with tracks/rails!
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IMHO, the GDC isn't going to do an agregate theme based on a lot of different events that fall into some category("It's a remote sensing themed game because it's the 75th anniversary of radar, the 50th anniversary of the weather satellite, and the 400th anniversary of Galileo's discovery!"). Instead, if there's an event theme at all, it will probably be something that's well known, has an anniversary that's a multiple of five or ten, and has some relevance to FIRST's mission.
...of course, now that I've said that, the game will probably turn out to be "keep a radar dish pointed at Jupiter while on a roller coaster" |
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OK so, if you move your screen to amplify the reflection, you can see holes on the underside of the poles. That suggests that they attach to something, the coupled with the holes on the lexan. However, the orientation, the "what they attach to", and function sadly remain a mystery. However, my best guess so far, is that if you orient this vertically, it seems to be some sort of shelf, however, that doesn't account for the hole in the lexan. Oh well, this will bug me until kickoff.
On a side note, it kinda sorta looks like a person skiing, maybe that has something to do with the name of the game, if it's not actually a part we will see or use. $.02 |
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i've read through some of the pages of replies, and i really like the ideas of tracks/transportation.
when i looked at the picture it looked like you could have two of these mounted across from each other to make a 'limbo bar' or something. my idea is; what if there are multiple bars or overhead tracking that we have to navigate boxes, or some other game piece down from, then score somewhere. think something like one of those annoying sliding puzzles, where you have to move multiple pieces around to get the one you want either way, i think maneuverability is going to be really important in this year's game. |
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When have FLL games and FRC games ever been similar? I mean, the Mars FLL game was several years behind the Moon FRC game... |
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and what i think our downfall is the fact that we keep saying that we "Like what we see".... We want to see the water game, so we do... We hope that it turns out with tracks.... (It doesn't start off this way of course but around 30th page of the thread it starts to head off that way) My $0.02 for now |
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Hoover Dam is an example of true engineering elegance, being both athesetically pleasing even in the smallest detail and yet very functional, but it is probably not significant enough an engineering acheivement to commemorate with a game a year early. I think it is safe to scratch Hover Dam off the list. Carry On ChrisH |
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Has anyone checked into any NASA anniversaries of late?
If you do, spend some time checking out their website. It is awesome. |
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OK
for those looking at the morse codes... anagram of the second sentence. "What is may not be." results in "Maybe As hint Two." :yikes: :ahh: so what does the first sentence give us?? |
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Does anyone who's made a model of these know if they stack in each other? This could be a ladder for robots to step on or something.
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Original Penn Station: ![]() ![]() Modern Penn Station: |
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I hope that this is a water challenge. The metal pipes can be where the propellers would go and the plastic would go all around the electrical board and stuff
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You guys, the water game has already been announced.
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If you enjoy analyzing this clue to death … you might be an engineer.
If you find yourself thinking about this clue more than eight hours a day…you might be an engineer. If you like taking someone’s idea apart piece by piece to build up your own idea…you might be and engineer. If you think your idea is better than every one else…you might be an engineer. If you use calculations to prove you right…you might be an engineer. If you think nothing will work until you download the program…you got to be a programmer. |
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thinking Safety FIRST - i don't think that the robots will be the ones running on up side down roller coaster tracks. I think it's too dangerous and a pain in the neck to attach and disattach six 50kg metal monsters from a track in the air before and after every game.
Instead, if we are already talking about hanging track, maybe they'll be part of some kind of frame above the field and some kind of baskets are hanged and scattered under that frame. thus, robots on ground will try scoring in their alliance baskets and turn over foe alliance baskets... it's like "Aim High" i guess just more chaotic... |
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Please take these anniversaries at face value-
I just googled up 2010 historic anniversaries, but didn't verify the validity of the data. Shame on me :( |
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Maybe it is just coincidence, but, has anyone else noticed that there are parallel aluminum bars, tracks, whatever, that look similar to the clue photograph in the picture of Bill on Bill's Blog?
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Guess it's time for me to jump in... So we now have 3 related threads out there with some interesting ideas. Jane's recent addition to one of them points us toward an Exploratorium web page with some interesting links, especially the one that relates to auroras and references changing "green and red lights across the sky". What if the "rails" in this clue were used to support lighted targets/baskets/whatevers that our bots would have to track via camera to increase chances of scoring? The rails and lexan would be more than capable of supporting suspended targets above the field. Or perhaps the "targets" when contacted would open gates that otherwise block movement from one side of the field? Then again, all may not be as it seems, right?
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Talking this over with a friend a got a thought that I had earlier. My thought for the game would be that the piece is oriented as is (possibly with different dimensions, to go along with the "Everything is not what it seems" theme) and the lexan bracket is attatched to another field piece that you would shoot balls into similiar to aim high but with a moving goal
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Roller Coasters huh? With the Thompson info I have a big thinking that this will be this years theme. If so my team is lucky cause I am a actual enthusiast lol. If not, we should be fine haha. I really don't know about the device only that it will be adjustable. That's probably it.
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Maybe it has nothing to do with the pic and more to do with what it is or represents, like last years "moon" fish.
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I seriously like that they're giving us a CAD render this year, and hope that they do the same thing in the future. It's kept us quite a bit more grounded than the free-associating with the fish last year... |
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It can not be roller coaster rails, what would the metal studs at the end of each pole be?
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Hmm, this hint was posted on a holiday (Christmas Eve). How much do you want to bet another one will be released today or tomorrow because of New Year's? :yikes:
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Not a bad thought
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How well would the electrics hold, and would it be largely cost prohibitive to use non-KOP materials?
Also could rusting become a problem? |
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I have no idea what it is, but I swear there's one in my garage somewhere.
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If your garage is anything like ours I wish you good luck and bid you farewell.
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I'm not sure but the only idea that comes to my mind is that its a field piece that is adjustable because when you look at the ends, it kinda looks like pegs (to me) that would fit into the middle part...but i'm unsure
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Been thinking about this for a long time and the only conclusion I can come to is that will form some kind of track or trough that we will be placing scoring objects in.
Keep in mind that if it is a ball it has to be big enough for the audience to keep track of, at least soccer ball size or bigger. The bigger ball would be more of a challenge to place and easier to defend. Imagine the ball running down the sloping track to the scoring area. Or even different tracks at different heights for different scores, including a low scoring area that balls could be herded into. Or how about 8 or 10 inch diameter schedule 40 or 80 PVC with or without end caps? That stuff can get pretty heavy. We could have different lengths of it worth different amounts of points. Picked up and placed on the rack made by these pieces. Or we have to retrieve these pieces from the rack and move them into scoring position. Call the game "Pipe Down" |
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what if its a track that u have to assemble. u have to fight the other team for the track pieces , put the pieces together, and release a ball to roll down the track first. :ahh: the closest one done or first one done is the winner. defense for the newer teams and the track assembly falls oone the vets.
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Im with keehun in that it would be rather hard to assemble with robot and if that was the job I imagine we would see a lot of crab/swerve drives as well as multi stage planetary gearboxes for the manipulators :ahh: Interesting idea... and knowing the gdc for the past few years who knows what they will do... skimoose made an interesting point too about how they are being used for the Delta field maybe this piece will overlap between the two field types. |
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So.... all along... we've been tearing out what hair we have left, biting whatever nails remain, to figure out what the game hint is, just to realize it's a part for the field. :eek:
Say it isnt so! Hahaha Well I do agree that the placement of those pipes is almost perfect to that they use on the field. I believe I've said before that it looks like the usual steel tubing that FIRST uses for field elements. It could end up being a junction on the side of the field that supports something. Maybe a more sophisticated lap counter with the sensor mounting to the lexan on the outside pointing in?? :confused: I'm not sure, its confusing. Everyone who has posted on this thread has brought about a lot of different ideas to the plate. Before it was just a simple 1 course meal in my mind. But when you post something on CD with tons of engineers and engineers in the making, your bound to have a feast!! |
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What about scale? can you really tell if this thing is small or large, for all we know it could be two inches or two feet????
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I'm just throwing this out there but it kinda looks like (if you flip it vertically) a version of a clock pendulum er, thing that would hold the pendulum arm in place while the other part of it connected to the clock's inner workings. Perhaps like some might have suggested, a track piece for guiding maybe a zipline handle or a cable car guide.
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ok this is like my first post in like i guess ever but here it goes to me it looks like it cant be no bigger then 1 foot because usually the pegs at the end would be like any other (well idk if their any bigger all the ones i have seen are small ) and i think the challenge will be able to connect and disconnect some how may be its to connect that then that piece connect to something else and you get a point maybe or it will let you do some thing else (depending on the rules ) but as i see it its small and you need it to connect something or must be connected to the robot right ?
( sorry if i make no senses at all im just saying what i think ) |
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I heard the idea of hanging the robots off of these pieces but then saw the point made about safety. What if your robot could only have one wheel and would hang into the 'track' via these rails for balance? |
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i feel like this is all WAY ovr analyzed...maybe we should show it to a 5th grader and get their input!!!!!!
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i agree about us over thinking this. but maby its suposed to be a type of random decision thing like in overdrive. decides different heights.
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This is a real surprise to me. This hint has been up for over a week now and no one has been able to identify it yet. 473 posts so far and nobody realized that this is a common double Helsinki Smash Rod.
Isn't it obvious? |
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I showed this to my friend, and she thought that it looks like something used for a tent. |
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Finally! A game using pogo sticks! :yikes:
Really really weird pogo sticks. Yes, I only post funny responses because I'd rather just wait until Jan 9th |
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I highly doubt that this is a piece that we will be required to put together. The quick disconnect tubing would be very hard (harder than usual) for a robot to position and connect together. Is it possible to do, yes, but I think this is just a field element and made to be easily built or changed by the event staff.
my $0.02 |
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Maybe the rails will be randomly generated and quickly assembled by the event staff!!!
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Or the usual - the GDC just wants to screw with our minds by giving us a clue that hardly relates to what the game will be this year. -nods-
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hmm, i looked over the image a bit. i came up with two conclusions.
1. it could potentially be part of the field as a track. 2. it could be an elevator of sorts. a lot of people have elaborated on the first one. however, the second one, someone mentioned stacking on top of the Lexan. what i believe is that it is something similar to 2008, where you had to push a ball over a bar. however, if thinking that you're gonna be lifting something over a variable height plate or elevator. i could be wrong. |
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ZOMG GAME HINT #2 is now up!
No wonder the FIRST site was down today :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: |
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haha just kidding. Can't wait for the 9th... |
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Again I mean no offense, just cautious before we start getting too many ideas about something that's nto a clue. |
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I think that joke hint that he put was actually kind of funny
I mean, what is the one thing we are all deprived of? SLEEP Maybe they will be EXTENDING THE BUILD SEASON!?!?!?!?! ZOMG! AND MANDATORY NAP TIMES! haha, jk But hey, Anything is possible. |
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Well I've been literally staring at the picture some some amount of time now and I'm not to sure myself what it is. Granted we may very well be over looking something or not quite getting the hint it's suppose to provide. Seeing as how last years was a 'moon' fish and all we would've got from that was it had something to do with the moon.
What I've got so far from looking at this is several things in fact. I've been looking at each piece and the thing as a whole. The two bars seem to be extend-able which suggests we may be dealing with changes in high in the competition, along with the fact that all the parts would appear to be made of light weight materials, may be unrelated to the actual competition but it may suggest a weight limit again. Extend-able building? But they seemed to put effort into demonstrating to us that two parts are made out of metal and one part out of a yellow(?) plastic. Upon looking closer at the hint I noticed that the the plastic has holes in all sides of it to be attached to something else, maybe more of the rods? But as people said prior it may very well be part of the arena. Though I just can't seem to figure out why the plastic is such an odd shape. Though for some reason....when I keep looking at the parts it reminds me of some stripped down speed boat...my crazy idea is the competition being water based. |
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Akash's joke was a lot funnier if you were up in the middle of the night when he posted it. :D
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Now that I think about it, the whole fact that it's an odd sort of shape with various parts sticking out reminds me of The Spider from the 2006 game Rack N' Roll. Perhaps it's just like that and it's a segment of a moving goal?
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The 2 holes in the outer plastic tab make it impossible to swivle which would mean it mounts to something most likely vertically. Also the picture has multiple reflections meaning that it probably has many of those pieces. The most dominant reflection is the one that is inverted, which most likely represents how the piece will actually be. I personally believe it is an immovable game piece and is most likely a ramp for balls to roll on. The reflections are as follows; one at an angle, one to the far side, and one below. So possibly side-by-side and at angles. The reflections could also mean that there are multiple lights or light sensoring devices. Also the spring locks are very common for attaching tubes together just for those that don't know what the tabs were.
Just an idea. P.S. I realize this idea has already been said, just elaborating and giving reasons as to why. :cool: |
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Maybe this hint is related to CAD, or reflection.
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Could be a track, or...
We have to attach the yellow parts to "legs" of our robots and we have to make walking ice skating robots. Seems manageable. ... Seriously, I'll go with either A. Bracket, B. Holder/track/etc. C. We're trying too hard and going on the wrong track and it's something much simpler and half of us will feel like fools when the game is finally revealed next Saturday. Hmm, I'll go with B for now. |
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Did anyone read the decryption test?
It says "Congratulations! You have successfully decrypted the test file! Below is the 2010 FRC Game Hint:..." Note the "Game Hint" and not "first Game Hint" or "Game Hint 1", implying this will be the only game hint. |
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the field cant be too hard to create every year they give you instructions on how to build one so we all can practice so if the floor is made out of ices how could we practice plus it would cost more keeping it leveled and all right ? im just hoping this year its not like the last were we barely have control of the robot |
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I guess that this "2010 element" is a large part of this year since they aren't coming out with anything else. Or if they did come out with something it would give it away. :rolleyes: |
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this may have been posted, but I agree it seems to look like some sort of ball track system, and it is shown upside down in the picture. but on that note, the yellow lexan doesn't seem like an ideal design for holding up the track, but more so a bracket for something hanging below it. My thought is maybe some sort of sensor mounts on that bracket to count the balls as they roll by.
Maybe these balls are scored on a goal above the driver station and this is part of a track to corral them back to the human player, sort of like what was done in 2006 |
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Having one hint is better then having a lot, and having an actual part of the field as the hint rather then cryptic clues makes it a lot more fun, personally. I would hope they make hints this way for a while.
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could it be something allready in use an indistry that has to do with the game last you moon fish pic
or is it like the andy mark slick wheels and do we have to make a walking robot |
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