Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

:D
o now i get the fish. iam not the person to look that up iam the main driver and builder i never thought about that

any ideas about the objects in the game

<('_')>

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

They did, last year. They took a substance known as Glasliner FRP and laid it over carpet to form the field. This flooring was, for purposes of the competition, known as "regolith". It was, in fact, white (to start with).

Let's review field surfaces:
1992: corn. Yep, corn.
1993-1997: I don't know much about these, but I believe they were carpet.
1998-2002: Carpet, even on ramps.
2003: Carpet on the floor, HDPE on top of the ramp in the middle, copper grating to form the ramps up to the HDPE.
2004: Carpet on the floor, HDPE on top of the platforms.
2005: Carpet, with plastic triangles in various places.
2006: Carpet, with diamond-plate and Lexan ramps.
2007: Carpet. Other materials you might drive on were up to the teams.
2008: Carpet.
2009: See above description.

Sean: Animation can be a form of CAD. For example, you can use it to determine whether or not you can see a particular part you need to see at X time. Of course, this doesn't seem quite in your dad's style of animation, so it's safest to assume that 1) he got some major help doing the game animation; 2) he got another few computers to run parts of it; or 3) this isn't from the game animation per se (that is, it's a scene from it that has been substantially upgraded).

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

i can c that but is there actually a reason for it??:confused:?? is it part of the game exept to crash another robot into

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Oh, yes, it was a big part of the game. You see, the entire top of the ramp in 2003 had stacks of boxes on top. Your objective was to knock as many as possible into your scoring area, then stack about half of them, then park on the top for some large number of points.

The number of points for the top should probably have been smaller, though, if stacking was to be encouraged. You see, every time a stack more than one or two high showed up, somebody parked next to it, ready to topple it, hence the name, Stack Attack. Then the robots already on top could block other robots from coming up. This made a lot of sense, as there were a lot of points on that top of the ramp. And yes, it was possible to get all four robots up on top at the same time (this was before the 3-team alliance came along).

By the way, I think your idea that there might be something that tips is reasonable. I just think it's going to be the part that went up as Hint #1. We haven't really had an "active" field element in a while; 2007 was the last one and it almost doesn't count. 2001 was the last truly active one, IMO (central seesaw).

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

ChiefDelphi is a forum, not a chat. There is a distinct and important difference.

Please try to avoid rapid, back-and-forth exchanges that mimic chat. It makes it very difficult for others to follow along and often contains little additional useful information than there'd be if some restraint and thought were put into your posts.

Thanks.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

If the field really is shaped differently this year, how might it be shaped? More specifically, how was it shaped in previous years? I know we had some circles and squares...

I'm thinking it might be hexagonal. Basically putting bends in the middle of the rectangular field that has been used recently. That supports having two brackets on each side of the gates.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

what about the standard ~25'x50' field but instead of having the drivers stations oh the short sides facing each other why not having all the drivers on the long side facing the crowd, this would allow the gates to be on the ends which would make loading robots onto and off the field much smoother

just watch out for other coaches listening in on strategies

Danny

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Significant field dimension changes would be difficult, as most venues can't handle anything other than a reduction.

I put this in the other thread, but decided to put it here too: the floor looks like Astroturf to me!

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Those yellow plates serve one other purpose. The spot between the yellow and the field wall is a good place for the ref/scorer/resetter to store a waterbottle so it doesn't get kicked over. Maybe a Diet Coke can?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

This is actually true, at least in the far corners. Except the resetters are usually given a place to sit during matches, which is where they'd keep their bottles. And they don't give out sodas...just water. It's healthy.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Assuming both hints are showing field structures, I can draw four conclusions:

1. The yellow plastic plates guard the potential trip hazard. This insinuates that people must move along the length of the field quite a bit. There are two types of people who would do this: Referees and Human Players. Since 2006, the Human Players have been pretty much stationary; perhaps this year the HPs will have a more dynamic and active role in the game, moving up and down the field.

2. Hint #2 either shows (roughly) a third of the field, either in the middle or near one of the drivers' stations. There are no other field elements shown, and more importantly, no place for the Hint #1 contraption to connect. Therefore, the Hint #1 piece must be either smack dab in the middle of the field, perhaps running the length of the field, or near the drivers' stations. (I'm using the theory of a bowling-ball-return-style track here).

3. If Hint #2 shows an outer third of the field, the "chamfer" that has been on the corners the past couple years must be gone, and we're back to a rectangular field.

4. There are no boundary markings shown on Hint #2, so the entire field is shared by the alliances (unlike 2008 when it was in quadrants or 2006 when it was in halves) and there are no floor tracking markings (as in the white tape in 2004 leading to the bonus balls). Furthermore, the robot starting postions are not on the sides of the field, like they were in 2006 and 2009 - rather they will be near the drivers' stations or in the center of the field.

With the carpet (perhaps tile?) floor and wide-open field, this promises to be a fast-paced, highly interactive game with scoring largely on the periphery of the field, like 2006.
Perhaps the game pieces are stored at an elevated location along the opposite drivers' station wall; the robots must go the length of the field to gather the game objects. The goals at least begin near their respective alliance stations.

As a side note, it is easier to clean spilled Diet Coke, Krispy Kremes, Haagen-Dazs and Cracker Jacks off the yellow plastic sheets than carpet.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I'd be wary about the lack of the Hint 1 contraption and the conclusion that this will be a "wide open field". We've already established that the render could be missing elements, and in any case, the steep vertical camera angle means that there very well could be a suspended track system we're just not seeing.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

ok, if you look at the playing field of 2009 you see the gates have one ramp, but this year there is 2 sides to the ramp, the hint is we have carpet this year. last year the playing field was off the ground by like 2/3 of an inch this year were on carpet and flat on the ground.... so the gate now have a tripping hazard......... I THINK...... ITS THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH!!!:ahh:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

With no major elements or objects shown, I think the emptiness is the hint. What is the point of showing an established field structure by itself except to highlight that it is, in fact, by itself?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

There appears to be a border around the field, which is why there are 2 parts to the trip gate. With a raised border (about 2 inches it looks like) there could be something they fill the field with. This could possibly be water, or they might do corn kernels (see the first game). I thought they were going to save the remake of the original game for the 20th anniversary (next year), but I might be wrong. They could also have the field empty and fill it as we play.

With the other hint, those could possibly be rails that we have on our bot that we use to move, and we don't even use wheels this year.

As a side note, the first game hint could be we attach our bot to one end of one of the poles with our teammate beside us, and we have a tug of war with the other team :D

EDIT: I don't know about any other competitions, but the GTA regional is held at the Hershey Centre, which is a hockey arena, so ice is definitely not out of the question.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

They wont go back to regolith this year. there were to many issues with it. There was the major static problem, and the field always had bumps in it that robots would get stuck on do to the robot restrictions. Chances are with this hint they are just telling us the gates moved a little. thats probably it. Dont read into this too much becaues as we know the hint never reveals much.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

The ramp has always had two parts - a fixed part outside the field and a moving part that levered down onto the field for robot access.

The edge of the field was always a piece of aluminum angle, 3x3 or 4x4 and about 1/4" or 3/8" thick. It is cut down a little bit at the gate location, as shown in the hint.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

The thing with that is that venues are all set up differently. While many arenas have the black backdrop curtain running parallel to the long side of the field, there are definitely many where the field is in a different orientation in relation to the audience. At Kettering, the bleachers are set up running parallel to the long side of the field, and the curtain is parallel to the short side. Having all of the drivers on a long side would make make one side of the audience very unhappy.

A hexagonal field would be neat, but it probably wouldn't be a regular hexagon. You could have two longer sides for the alliance stations, two shorter sides for human players, and the other two sides would be the same size as the human player stations, and the gates would be located there.

Or...the field could be triangular. Like the recycling logo, you know? ;)

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

This might be true, but back in Triple Play there weren't any lateral supports for the field along the areas there the human players ran.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

ok the side railing is made of 7 pieces for easy setup and each piece looks roughly like this
============+============+============
_______==______________==______________==________
============+============+============
with the + being the link between two pieces the = being frame and the _ being empty space
now since their is an odd number of pieces it cant be in the middle but their is always the old position
but if you look at the picture here http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/FE-00032.pdf
the old position does not have two yellow things on both sides their-for it must be in the position between the old spot and the middle
and like i said before they did not move it for no reason

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

My comment was intended for people to consider the usage of this image, rather than the origin. People were puzzled over the omission of the polycarbonate siding or why the yellow guards weren't bent. If this image was intended for the same or similar purpose as the animation (whether or not it is actually part of the animation), absolute detail is not essential. This may well be a rough graphical representation (a "cartoon") rather than an in-depth draft.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I've seen quite a bit of assumptions floated here without much to back them up. For example - how much of the playing field does clue #2 show? To determine this, we'll base it off the official field drawings from last year (http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/...aspx?id=11624).

Those drawings dictate that the rail is roughly 18 inches high, and the spacing between the vertical supports is roughly 72 inches - with the exception of the sides next to the ramp (the two fully visible sections in the clue) - those are roughly 49 inches wide.

Using that and a simple ruler, we can conclude that we can see roughly 175 inches of the side of the field - or 14.5 feet. The field the past few years has been 27x54 feet, with the 54 foot length the one we can see here - this means we can see roughly 25% of the length of the side wall of the field here - if we assume a similar 4-gate setup as years past, this becomes 50% of each side wall.

Also using a handy ruler, you can deduce that the bottom right corner is roughly 84 inches (7 feet) from the side wall - that's halfway towards the center of the field.

Put all of this together, and you can draw out a little diagram that shows what portions of the field are visible (the shaded regions below). Also included here are the possible locations of a third gate, as people have been speculating on that.

Given this visible area, what can we conclude about the game? Well, there could be no field pieces, like 2009. There could be a huge wall and overpass like 2008. There could be a huge central rack like 2007. There could be goals like 2006. In short, there could be anything, because we can't really see too much, even after we multiply it by 4 (or even 6).

Of course, there's still a lot of speculation in what i've come up with... but it is grounded in quite a bit of fact and in simple economics - it's highly likely that they aren't going to radically redesign the field, since that would require completely new fields. Reusing what they've had in the past as much as possible makes sense.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Man I hate it when people muddy up our rampant speculation with facts and logic, jeez :D

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

So I have been pondering, and my mind keeps going back to Ladder Logic. I couldn't find any great photos of the field... anyone have any good ones on their websites? I remember it vividly, but its hard to describe. And its a good example of odd shaped fields for those who have never seen one 96-98 were odd fields, if I remember right 99 was the start of the rectangular size...

The reason I keep thinking back to this, is that I agree with the idea that the first hint could be some sort of ball track when it is flipped upside-down from how it is shown in the image.

Now if you look at the second hint, if we guess that this is just a typical field gate in the corner, but guess that it is showing that there are no corner structures like the last two years, that means the corners of the field are open from obstruction. (See my guess on the FOV in the attached image).

Then, somewhat like Ladder logic, you could have some sort of grid or high ball track structures that slant down to portions of the field, possibly from the centers of the player station walls... or maybe they go in an upward fashion? or maybe they go from the centers of the sides (more like rack & roll). The center could be a bin or a ramp or anything really, not sure we can tell anything about where the "ball tracks" might actually be/lead to.

I attached a crude drawing to show what I mean (fastest for me to draw in powerpoint).

I dunno... active imagination and flashbacks from too many past games!!

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Not great pictures, but they're better than nothing. Here's one and another.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

A lot of people have been saying that there won't be regolith this year, and I was myself, but I'm starting to miss it already. With the regolith we didn't have to worry about pinning or ramming penalties and it gave us a chance to really see how robust are robots are.

Also thinking about it now, I know we don't see any regolith in the picture, but would FIRST really get all new flooring for the fields costing them money as well as every team, and then never use it again? I don't think regolith is gone and maybe it won't cover the entire field like it did last year, but it will probably be on some sections of the field. Like how last year for FTC there were certain panels with different properities, like bumpy surfaces and rollers.

Lastly when we're thinking about what the game will be this year don't think there will be some sigh of relief and the game will be easier than last year. That's not why we're in this competition, we're here to challenge ourselves with new and harder problems, and thankfully FIRST has been keeping up with that and challenging us every year.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

The regolith was a specific solution to the problem of simulating gravity last year. It was used very hard over many regionals. There was much damage and cracking. Just like the carpets from past seasons it will not be reused.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

FIRST also uses two rolls of carpet per regional, both for the field. Both arrive new. Neither travels with the field to the next event. Local teams typically get to the carpet to help them run offseasons and other things of that nature.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

The carpet has always been replaced at every event, as was the regolith last year. They have a one and done policy.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I agree with you that we should use the best measurement we can find. But disagree with your selection of parts. The three full-sections of rail shown in the image are all the 72-inch length. The gate is now wider than previous years. With the extra rail visible on the ends of the image we have nearly 22 feet of rail visible. That is 40% of the standard field length. Thus we are seeing much more (80%) with symmetry.
The middle 10% of the field could have a stripe on the floor. But there is not much room for a structure like the rack-n-roll tower . . . etc.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I have opened and closed those gates more times that I could count and they really don't look any bigger to me. Has anyone done the measuring to confirm they are bigger?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Take a look at it again. If we make the (logical) assumption that the side barriers are 18 inches high like they have been in the past, you can't have each section be 72 inches based on the picture - each section would have to be 4 times longer than it is tall, while the picture is clearly closer to 2 times longer than it is tall. You state the gate is wider, but the picture simply doesn't back that up when you start measuring what is shown. in order to be 72 inches wide, the side barriers would have to stand 3 feet tall - much higher than they have in the past. While this is possible (as there's no frame of reference for us in the picture), I'm guessing it's pretty unlikely as it would obstruct the view too much for the audience.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Last year's first hint (the fish) was called a MOONFISH hence the theme for the game...

perhaps the piece in the first hint was simply intended to look like a track,,,

hence some type of train or track theme for this game...

This hint.... not white regolith? carpet perhaps.....or some other dark surface.

Speculation about a hint should never be based on something that is left out of an image.....one can only analyze what IS there in the image..

If we start speculating about a big open field as some have suggested ... we might just as well speculate about a game with no robots...

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

This might have been said already but if you ask me when they posted this hint they intended for it to show us something, and you guys have made excellent guesses but I think that it may be more of an update than a clue.
My thoughts: The layout of these gates are different than last year, for example, they could be on the two long ends of the field (two per a half field) and essentially turning the field sideways and putting players along the long ends, which may or may not add space for three teams to have maybe an opening onto the field (like the Air Lok for moon rocks last year) instead of just two team players using field scoring (again with the moon rocks being scored form behind the wall). Again they probably show a gate to give us a hint, but it might just be saying "hy, we're moving the gates on the field this year."
Just my thoughts. Sorry if it soundd like I was bashing somebody's idea(s).

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Tracks? Dark surface that might not be carpet? Game with no robots?

I got it! Introducing the real McCoy 2010 game: Ballast Regulation!




// Don't let my loco motives derail this thread.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

You know, I think that the game theme is going to be parallel.

Think about it. Dave's Morse hints point to telegraph stuff. Telegraph wires were often run in parallel, the better to keep going if one failed. More than that, they ran alongside railroad tracks, the better to maintain them. I have yet to see a train track where the rails aren't parallel, save on the open side of a switch.

Now, Hint #1 shows a device that has parallel rails. It goes on the field somewhere, most likely.

Hint #2 shows a field border, which has parallel rails. Again, it goes on/next to the field.

It's a parallel game. Now to figure out what the parallels are between the hints and the game objects...

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

This is interesting because the gate is placed in a way that we can't see the driver station wall, which is usually visible. Also the gate does look to be a bit wider. So possibly, if the gate is moved closer to the center, we may have less robots on the field, that have larger dimensions. But MOST definitely not 1 v 1 like some were saying. First is trying to speed up games, and not make them last 5 days

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I highly doubt that they will add/subtract teams to the field. I could see a 2v2v2 game, but I don't like the idea when it's painfully obvious that the Red and Blue Alliance could "team up" against the Yellow alliance. Plus having a third team to add to the Elimination bracket would be a pain. Maybe if the field was split up into thirds and there was a robot per alliance to a third, that would get you a "1v1" game

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I can't imagine the nightmare of having to cue up three different alliance.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

You guys do know that back before 1999, the game was 1v1v1, right? Except in elims, when it was 1v1. The reason for 2v2 was something to the effect of, "Collusion is happening, whether or not it is intentional. Seeing as it cannot be prevented, it shall henceforth be required." Tetraman is right on on that part.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

"Maby the clue is in it. Like, not exactly something, like how last year was the Moonfish, but it wasnt a moonfish, it was the Moon, lunar, whatever.
Mabey, it has something to do with the enterance gate. Like something we have to open or something"
Some one said this on facebook, and I'm not quite ready to wade through to 17 pages of thread to see if they posted it here.

I do like the idea though. They're right about the fish.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Maybe 4v2 is harder to defend than 2v1... though experience I've had in Vex indicates it's about as hard for the best alliance to win.

I'd be unhappy with a 2v2v2 game unless there were offense and defense governing rules.

So... why is there a 3rd gate? What if the field is in 3 sections?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Reasons why Scorekeeper is a better job than Field Reset number 42. :) Being a scorekeeper is like being a guitarist in Dire Straits' "Money for Nothing." All we have to do is sit in a comfy chair, press the "go" button at the right time, and fight off all the groupies who want our autographs.

(Why, yes, I was a Scorekeeper for two years -- why do you ask? My "go button" finger is insured for one million dollars.)

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I have a sneaking suspicion that several of these clues are building together to point towards two separate conclusions.

#1 The Morse code business (telegraph stuff) is more likely pointing towards the emphasized use of communications in 2010. Combine this with the new integration of laptops at the driver station and it might just be likely that the drivers are physically separated from the robots this year. Having to use the laptops + on board cameras to navigate their now UAV's remotely.

#2 The combination of the first clue (field element- configurable ball track) and the second clue point to increased open field space with ball carrying field elements at either end potentially staffed by human players. This means robots will more than likely have to have ball pickup and handling capabilities.

My $0.02

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Well you know how the GDC likes to give us obstacles to overcome. We are back to carpet and maybe this year instead of lunar gravity we will have Jupiter's gravity which is 2.3 to earth 1. Our wheels this year will be of velcro so that they adhere to the carpet and slow us down. No high speed ramming but deadly pushing matches.

Rumor: we will go back to the proper way of choosing alliances not like the last few years.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Rumor #2: Canadians don't know what the proper way to choose alliances is. (Who cares who 1114 and 2056's third partner is? They're still going to win!)

I'm still thinking parallel and possible tipping game elements

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

how do we know that the piece in clue 1 isnt something the robots attach themselves to or carry? It could just be a required part, there's little that sas that the piece is small or big and just because its not in the 2nd clue doesnt mean they're hiding that fact from us.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Wait Dean Kamon and a ref were ran over is there a video?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

One of the first off season events I worked(I think it was WMRC, but not sure), we had a machine topple over the field barrier, taking out the program feed monitor at the scoring table. Amazingly, it still worked afterwards, and was even back the next year at the same event.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Odd, considering the 2006 and 2008 captains were Canadian :)

I dunno what about the hint indicates the end of the serpentine (which I happen to like, unless the competition is the IRI).

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

samsies

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Overdrive was dumb, and it lacked creativity. I mean come on NASCAR? I understand that the silly sport is really helpful in the design and technology of new cars, including efficiency and aerodynamics, but i almost died of shame that First couldn't come up with a more creative game.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

What if they weren't thinking "NASCAR" and were thinking "Toad's Turnpike"?

I think its kinda lame that you're bashing them like that. I've been on a GDC for a mentor challenge. Every once in a while you get an outstanding game idea and refine it till it's fantastic. But if that doesn't happen, its INCREDIBLY HARD to make up a new game to play.

+$.02

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

[quote=Karibou;893813]Not quite. Maize Craze was played on corn, if Wikipedia is indeed correct (and I trust the FIRST community to keep it as such). I think that there were a few other playing surfaces too, but as I have little knowledge of past games, I don't know which ones they were. Weren't the ramps for 2007 diamond-plate?


entrance ramps are the same but the ramps that count were actual robots

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

im sure you are right and im sorry that im a liitle un familiar with Toads Turnpike, unless you are sayimg mario cart 64, in which i give you mad props. i guess im just a NASCAR hater

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

-finnaly school is over wat up people

-any ideas on the field floor:confused:
-and the first hint was as some of my team members said was a object holder:confused:

-any ideas on the objecs that will be used
-on another skript page i herd something about shooting objects threw holes in a wall that separates the field.
:yikes: :D :yikes:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

In my opinion overdrive was fine, it had a lot more to do with coming up with ways to capture, move, and hurdle the tracks balls, then it had to do with NASCAR. It seems to have lacked creativity when you think of it at first, but it made for an interesting game, have you ever seen so many robots tip over before?

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I think the floor is just a distraction. But i don't think that the gate is the focus. Lots of people think that the yellow things are to Velcro to hold down the field. They have to be touching the floor for the velcro to work and it appears that the gold things are slightly off the ground.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

It's not that we think that, it's that we know that. I've said this before, but I've helped set up the field at least once per year at an official event since 2007. Every year, both sides got 4 trip guards, one over every support on the outside.

They are flat because they are made flat, then they bend under the Velcro that holds them to the floor and the metal they protect people from, if they aren't pre-bent.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

by my oppinion i think that the wall is a large part of the competition because that means the field will be split or that that image is a side wall image and its to keep objects from flying all over the place :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Yes -- in 2005. (Why do I feel like this must be a trick question?) A lot of robots rolled on the ramps in 2006, too.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Assuming that I can clearly varify where the gate is located it looks like the size of the gate hasn't changed so that dosn't mean larger robots. Although it looks like the place ment of the gates have changed :cool: Meaning that the gates might be in the centre of the field thus the scoring objectives would be down on opposite ends. which would lead into the new DS because if the opposing teams robots were down on the opposing alliance side, Their view would be obstructed thus meaning that the robots would do better if they had visual capabilities coming from a camera attached to the robots. Allowing drivers to visually see the targets through the DS if all else fails.

Just my $0.02:rolleyes:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

my point is that wat about the wall seems to be conected to the metal rods. the wall means that there trying to keep stuff in the field. so i think there will be objects flying aroud the field projected from other robots.
didnt they have a wall in the 2008 competition to keep the balls in the field.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Don't forget 2008! So many tipped robots from mis-hurdling and metaphorically T-boning the overpass...

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Every year, they have had the border that is currently displayed in some form.

In 2008, there was indeed a larger wall, near the overpass. There was also a center divider, if you'll recall. The purpose was to keep the folks that were right there from the effects of a missed hurdle, as running is a bit harder if you've got a scoring device in hand or on the table in front of you. The fence used was not attached to the field border in any way, shape, or form, save some zipties between members at passing points.

In 2006 and 2009, no such walls existed; the standard field border was deemed sufficient. In the rare cases it wasn't, a field reset person would give chase to the offending ball.

(Reason to be Field Reset rather than Scorekeeper #47: You get your daily exercise.:p)

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Hmmm. What if the gate is not a gate but instead of a gait (a manner of walking).

Which leads me back to my game theory I shaired with the Washington State FIRST board last night:
O Walking robots, no wheels allowed.
O 3x3x3 matches (yep 9 teams on the field)
O The robots will have to 'launch' bowling balls around the field.
O In order to involve more chemistry students, the 'launching'
mechanism for the bowling balls have to be a chemical reaction and not mechanical.
O There isn't a speed limit on the speed of the bowling balls,
however there is a limit on the chemicals that a team can use to cause the reaction.

ok ok ok, maybe just the first point is valid.

-Jim

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

y my, many folks are thinking 2v2 and 3v3...............

What about 4v0 and everyone has to work together towards a common goal, similar to 2001?

Or maybe......maybe...no not 6v0!!:eek:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

2001 was one of the least-liked games in FRC history. I'd have to say that if the GDC brought it back at all, especially the Xv0, they would hear more about it than from 2008's <G22> and 2009's <G14> combined. (You might also include 2005's loading zone penalties, but that's probably stretching it a bit too far.)

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

chemical reactions!!!:yikes: i cant see in first robotics that they would have a chemestry class. walking robots seem alittle out there but now that i look at the first hint that may be possible. rods are legs, center piece that bent 90 degree as a hip, and the center whole as a joint.:D :cool: :] :confused:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I think I'll put that chemical reaction suggestion into my proposal for a 2012 water game. Something about how many different H2O-triggered reactions can you get without a big mess, and then what can you do with the products.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

i think that they are gonna add a new alliance to the game so instead of 2v2 its 3v3

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

last year it was 3 vs 3 not 2 vs 2. y is i a new to have 3 vs 3 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I believe Gaby meant to say 3 separate teams. Red, Blue, & possibly some other color.
That would then make 2v2v2, and not 3v3.
We already have 3v3. :)

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

all this hint means is that we are going to have the same walls and that the floor is going to be carpet. nothing else. no depth. everything is at the surface. This is only even a hint because of last years game.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Or maybe 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1...

So, no official alliances, but if you help another team, you can get Coopertition points...

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Plenty of people have proposed that the game will be 2x2x2, but has anyone suggested the game would be 4v4 with smaller robots?

This theory matches the "10 qualifying rounds for every regional" blog post of yesteryear. Haagen Daas cups have been resized recently to become smaller... hmm.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I noticed in the shipping rules that the max height for the crate was 6 feet including the bottom 4x4s. If your crate is 6 feet tall with 4 inch supports and about an inch of plywood, your bot can't have a height of 6 feet unless you disassemble it. I think we are going to have smaller bots this year.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

how do you come to that solution, you robot can only be a max of 5ft tall. That is more than enough room in that situation for your crate to fit your robot

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Oh my mistake, I thought in the past it has always been 6 feet. At least we know that the robots won't be any bigger this year.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Yes, several people have, in other threads and, I believe, this one, but I don't feel like looking back to verify. There has been speculation of 4v4 or 5v5 with smaller bots. The 5v5 could have teams 4 and 5 placed on a higher level between the first three teams. Whatever one would think of, the free thinkers on this site have probably thought of it and some would even post it and admit to it. I am one of these people. 24 hrs!! :confused:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I'm surprised not many people have made more of this. The clues haven't been attacked as creatively as they have in the past. Recalling 2006's clue (the "a shovel's show" line in particular), as well as Dave's morse-ing, perhaps we should be taking a more abstract look at what's been presented to us, rather than accepting two CAD renderings at face value.

Perhaps, but it is not uncommon for robots to extend beyond their original starting dimensions, particularly vertically. The 2009 game was a HUGE abberation in that regard.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

So, I am kind of late on this but:
Pretty sure we are just being teased again. Although it is nice to know that we *should* have carpet again. It's easier to set up in my opinion.... lol
Did think about possibly a third gate, but a) that would be extra work for the field crew and they would have to remake how many fields? (only by a small bit, but still extra work), b) would they REALLY allow humans onto the field during a match? and c) what would be the purpose, really? I mean, if it's for the game pieces, I don't think that they would be that big or heavy to the point that they need to be pushed through a gate.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I saw plenty of robots tip in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Heck, 2009 is basically the only game where robot tippings were infrequent in quite some time.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Again you are belittling the scorekeeper...
If a moonrock sailed toward the scoring table, we could either catch it or let it hit us in the head. I chose the latter, so that I could get up and get the game piece. Thus I got plenty of exercise.

btw, We hate when someone stands in front of the table. So, having a gate in the field center would mean too many people near field center. This would make me very unhappy. Thus I refuse to believe in the third gate...:cool:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I totally agree. But that would add what, at least 2 more people to field crew? Which is not that bad, but when you have a well oiled machine normally and random people show up to volunteer, although wonderful, they sometimes don't know what to do with themselves during the matches. Heck, sometimes I don't and this is my 4th year as field crew (crosses fingers in hope) so more people would be an issue in my opinion. Plus, it would interfere with the radio but then we could dance more (gotta love the Florida Regional)!!!! hee hee.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

One more guess. Hint one still looks to me like the plastic device moves back and forth along the smaller pipe with stopping pegs at each end. Now add spring/rubberbands from plastic to front and simple handle on back. You now have a shooting device for human player. Second hint is most likely a side rail. Side rail as in billards.
One more thing. Does anyone else see an optical illusion in second hint? The dark area looks like it is humped up,like a hill.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I'm wondering if the floor is actual smooth and non porous. I notice that the bottom rails are flat like a hockey rink.

Put those together and maybe air cushion game pieces and or robots are in order this year.

My other idea is the expected emphasis on image recognition that FIRST has been hinting at. Maybe the floor is some special monochromatic color that is easy to process.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I posted this over in rumor mill. Now found the better spot. I'm a newbie to CD, but not to forums. :)

Looking at the official hint #2 on the FRC webpage.

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=16119

It would appear the yellow squares are tripped targets, having been tipped over.

Combined with the 2010 Winter Olympics this year. My personal guess is that we shall have a BIATHLON Competition. This would be most unique compared to previous years, and a bit of a pain to setup for the hosts, as far as space required. Nonetheless. It would be cool.

I searched for "biathlon" before posting. No one had made a post with the word. So hopefully this is not redundant.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic..._144492xG.html

- eaglecat

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I believe its the railing of the side of the field. The yellow things are there to keep it in place. I really am stumped because there isn't much of a hint.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I think everyone's to critical about trying to figure it out, we'll get the hints tom. after the game is revealed. Save your minds for the task at hand after it's revealed.

Maybe they're making reference to the hockey boards with the yellow along the bottom. A hockey based game would be fun , and would go along with the minimal penalty idea if they want to keep it! Also could be very exciting compared to years past, with points being harder to get and less points to count, keeping the matches close.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

CAD
rail

Even more fun, if you search for CAD gate - you can find water valves. :)

Ok, time to leave CD for a while.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

By the way... 3 years ago (Rack and Roll) we could have 6 foot tall robots (but they had to be lighter..)

The crate requirements were the same though.... so you had to break it down for shipping.

FYI


good luck!!

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

almost time for the kickoff
-does anybody have any idea on the wall of the field??:confused: ??
-is it for flying objects and is hint #1 legs for a walking competition. and on a different chat site, the image of hint #2 is just a regular wall, boarding ramp, and the yellow things are supports for the field when people crash into it.
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Those yellow things are the counter weights to hold the railing upright. The yellow is to alert anybody that they are there & not to trip on them. The gate does in fact look like it is more center field oriented. On the original field setup, there aren't any counter weights between the gate & the end of the field. As for gate size, I agree, angle of sight.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

As one who has built many fields both at Suffield Shakedown & Hartford Regional., What you are looking at for hint #2 is a normal field configuration in a cad program mode. I do agree the gate is not at the end.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

It does appear as if the gate is in the middle of the field and while I can definitely see FIRST doing something unpredictable and changing up the alliance structure, my gut feeling is that they won't (not basing this off of anything, it just seems unlikely to me). So to me, the question becomes why bother moving the gate? My guess would be because human players have to stand in that area. If human players are standing on one side of the field, they can't be symmetrical across the field and there could be some competitive advantage for either side (obviously FIRST wouldn't want an inherently unfair game). This leads me to believe that human players will have limited importance this year and, for instance, will play a role more akin to their role in Stack Attack as opposed to their incredibly important role in Lunacy.

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Maybe the reason they might move to the gates to the middle is because the place where we score is now up against the driver stations, and the starting positions lie in a manner that would've caused problems with the traditional setup.

Of course that's just speculation and in roughly 12 hours time, we'll see exactly how far off we were.

Sleep well Chief Delphi, because for the next 6 weeks, sleep is only for the weak. :D

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

I did propose that the game could have a parallel theme. Parallel communication, maybe.