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2010 Game Hint #2
Warming up the bullpen for #2
Since they named the last hint #1 it stands to reason that there should be at least a game hint #2. |
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I saw the thread and thought "Oh, there's a #2? I was just on the FIRST website and I didn't see it"
Then I was throughly disappointed by the lack of a game hint in this thread. Anyways, its reasonable that there might be another hint. Or they could just make us wait. 3 more days til kickoff! |
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I don't think they could give another hint without revealing the entire game. The hints are sooooo detailed. One more hint, and kick-off will be like the time you opened your presents before Christmas and re-wrapped them.:p
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Kick off is only three days away. I think it would be a waste of effort to release another game hint. I think the next big release will be the release of the encrypted manual.
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I was thinking... maybe another hint is the #1? maybe we are on teams by ourselves?
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Not to discount your idea, but game hints are normally numbered. It makes them easier to reference and there is normally more than one. (ie: Last year, game hint #1 was the Moon Fish, and game hint #2 was the poem.) Then again, it is the GCD we're talking about, so who knows? :D My suggestion? Wait three more days and everything will make sense... Lunacy Game Hint #2 for those who don't remember: Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount; stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix; drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. |
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Well, this was just posted today on Bill's FRC Blog:
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Well, from Bill's Blog:
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...-saturday.html Quote:
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looks like more carpeted fields.
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Yay carpet!
Any ideas on what those yellow things are? They look like they're slightly elevated , and held in place by the side of the field. |
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Would someone be able to verify that the "Gate" looks wider than it has been in past seasons? or is that just me seeing things because of the scaling of the image?
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But heres what I took from it; The gate set-up looks a little different, not sure why Appears to be carpet on the floor again And Im guessing the yellow pieces are to protect the tripping hazard created by the wall buttress |
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Human players have to stand on the yellow plates?
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What could the yellow plat forms be for. It appears they are slightly elevated and not mounted on the standard round tube. Instead on an angled square tube.
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Looking at the shadow is the field going to be under low light?
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Cool, we're driving on carpet. That's really all I can get from the picture.
I wonder if the field will be as empty as the model seems to indicate it will be. I guess FIRST hasn't put anything "on" the field since 2007. Can someone with a CAD of a FIRST field guesstimate how long the segment we're viewing is, and what portion of the field is apparently empty space? |
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Interesting ... but how did we get from Post #8 to Post #9?
I don't see any link to Clue #2 from the FRC Landing page ... hmmm ... As for the clue itself ... I'm fixated on the yellow pads ... will there be people standing on them? probably not ... too close to the rails ... perhaps they'll have game-pieces on them ... |
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The gates were larger on the new field they were trying out at River Rage.
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Also, another hunch. The first hint's filename was 1st Clue.jpg, while the second was 2010 Clue 2.jpg. Perhaps we're playing a big game of Clue; the first thing was the murder weapon, the second is the location, and the third clue will be whodunit! |
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I got it, I got it.
We will be playing a game on a field with robots. |
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I would certainly hope the gates needed to be moved towards the center of the field due to a very large game structure having obstructed the previous placements. |
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This hint has some usefulness to it, so I will chime in. I agree with Rob. My first thought was that robots will have to enter and exit from the middle of the field because the usual gate locations are now blocked by something such as goals or automatic game piece dispenser-type thingies, preferably surrounded by diabolical ramp- or step-like structures. |
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I think the field looks a "little different" because I think it's the Delta Field(Or a more complete variation) that was tested at River Rage. They were confirmed as being wider.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/34329 The main thing about this hint that I gather is that if this is indeed showing a loading gate in the middle of the field, which you can't be certain of, but if it is, then the only reason to put it in the middle would be if there's something in the way of having the loading gates in their normal places. Maybe large scoring structures in the far ends? Luckily we only have to wait 3 more days... Edit: two above me have said almost the exact same thing.... therefore we must be right :) |
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If the gate is in the center of the field, does that mean we go from four gates to two? How is that going to affect traffic flow? Especially when the scoring table and a lot of the electronics run to the middle of the field?
So maybe they are not in the center, but just offset more from the driver stations, maybe at the next side rail segment (I think there are 7 per side) |
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I would not be so quick to assume there is one large gate in the middle. FIRST wants to get more matches for each team during a Regional event. One way is to reduce the amount of time between matches for removing robots and placing new ones.
If there are only two gates at the middle of the long edges of a rectangular field, how can this be quicker than the previous field with four gates? Reducing the number of robots playing in a match also reduces the number of matches per team, so any entrances and exits to the field must allow a similar or faster flow of teams on and off the field. |
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The last few posts have basically covered my thoughts on the new hint, but here's my take on them:
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This is a model of the existing fields, not the delta field.
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My first thought was the starting spots for the robots. Since there is only two yellow spots, this might confirm some peoples thoughts of a 2v2v2 game. However, there might also be another spot further along the edge of the field.
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The standard field perimeter is modular. Side wall sections can be assembled in a way that puts the gates closer to the center.
Based on the angle of the shadows, I think that the shadow from the 6 foot high end wall would be seen if the gate were in the "traditional" location. Obviously, they needed extra room at the ends of the field for the wading pools... |
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All I am getting out of the two hints are the shadows. idk, but maybe this is a big hint to the game, suggesting that lighting will be a major factor. I'm just guessing off of this, and well it does appear to be carpet flooring to me too but i don't know what to gather from that other then we will actually have traction this year :D
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Considering that this is a CAD model, there is the possibility that this is "incomplete," and they just took parts of the field out.
-Nick |
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After all, kickoff is going to look different this year.... (wasn't that one of the posts on Bill's blog?) Or the driver stations could be somewhat further away. With cameras and IP networking, technically the driver station could be on the moon. Well... maybe low earth orbit... the moon would have a bit of time lag. Darn speed of light! Jason |
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I never thought a picture of the loading gate could be so significant :) Although it doesn't tell us the main scoring elements, we can take away many things mentioned already:
We are back on good old carpet again (so those offseason drivetrains from two years ago may be good again!). If there are human players they are unlikely to be scoring or loading anything from the sides of the field, since the gate placement there leaves a relatively small carpeting strip on the sides. So we can assume human players will be behind the driver's station again (or at center field). A substantial portion near the sides of the field is wide open, meaning any field elements are likely to be near the center or drivers stations. If the gate is indeed wider (which it appears to be), we may see a dimension change (perhaps teams will be REQUIRED to build robot wider than they are long)? They could have also widened the gates just so the increasingly common wide robots fit easier through them. The game appears to be on a field, and will likely have robots (pure speculation of course). |
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I like the idea of a ramp structure at each end of the field similar to 2006 with another elevated spot on each side of that that is about 12" higher and worth more points. Something like 10 bonus points for being on top of the "lower" platform (accessable via ramp) and 30 bonus points for being on top of the "higher" platform (accessable via climbing).
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The yellow plates/mats/whatever just make me think of 2003 and 2005 when we had pressure pads for human players that enabled/disabled autonomous or the robots.
BTW I hope the gates and we are allowed to bring lift assists/carts onto the field this year. In my opinion carrying the robots as far as we are and shuttling the carts around has been asking for trouble since we hit ~150 lbs for a robot with bumpers and a battery. |
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http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33956 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33599 As you can see, these were here before, we just never took much notice of them. They aren't curved in the cad picture, but that is what they are representing. I do like the idea of a 2v2v2 game, that sounds like a lot of fun. I think we should just wait till the kickoff, but speculations are fun. |
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Remember the trackball-game. The corners of the field were angled. So the entry gates were moved away from the ends. It looks again like the gates are moved in. But this time there is no angle visible in the corner. The field element at the end of the field may be the reason for the move. Unfortunatly we cant see the end of the field in this view.
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Who says the driver station is off the bottom of the picture. What if it is off the top side, you wouldn't be able to see the shadow.
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Looks like the typical gate design.
I cannot tell if gate is larger than usual.... but I would not complain. A larger gate would make moving robots and people on and off field safer. It is missing the Plexiglas/Lexan sections that have protected the sides of the field for the last 3 or 4 years though. |
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The lack of any tape on this portion of the field suggests less boundaries/no robot starting positions in this area. Robot starting positions will likely be directly in front of the drivers stations, either your's or your opponent's ;)
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I'm just happy to see that carpet has made its return for 2010. That's the biggest thing that this hint tells me, traction has returned.
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where is this on frc page? did they take it down?
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http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=16119 |
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I think this is a gate in the middle of the field, the yellow is to indicate where the yellow alliance is to enter the field. 3x3x3 game, without wheels is my guess.
-Jim |
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What are the chances that we're playing a RECYCLED game? meaning, a mix of all the 2000-2009 games to celebrate the new decade?
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The Yellow squares in the drawing are to prevent/identify tripping hazards around the fields. All fields had them... maybe not all were yellow... but they were there.
<See Here> |
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The hint is simply CARPET... yahoo! I guess I didn't waste my summer on another pointless drive concept! |
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See the second photo on post #49 by Cyberphill. The "yellow" plate was only on one side of the gate, now there is a "yellow" plate on both sides in the clue. The photograph shows four "yellow" plates between the gates. The gates have simply been moved one section in towards the middle and they now have the "yellow" plates on both sides.
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How'd you find the URL to the hint already? I don't see it on the FRC page above Hint 1... Or was it just some lucky content id number guessing?
EDIT: Looks like it's up on the site now... |
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And maybe it's just the perspective, but the carpet/regolith/floor(maybe rubberized or *high* friction floors, or maybe even a padded floor??) ends right behind the view of the pipe guardrail. Just a random observation. |
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Still can't find hint directly from home site. Maybe all is not what it appears.
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This link was already posted on page 1 of this thread ... not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, or with the new "real" thread that you created. :confused: :confused: :confused: (but at least now I can see a link to Hint #2 on the main FRC page ... so that question is resolved ...) |
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So...the floor looks like carpet. Dave's game hint is "What is may not be what it [seems]". So it's not really carpet. It is flat though. Or is it?
Or perhaps the hint refers to how hard it can be for a robot to open the gate. Field reset volunteers know what I'm talking about. It's a simple latch ... except ... Or perhaps it refers to the hump underneath the gate, meaning the field isn't flat. See, it's so ambiguous I simply must be correct. |
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[quote=Ziaholic;893537]This link was already posted on page 1 of this thread ... not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, or with the new "real" thread that you created.
:confused: :confused: :confused: Sorry bad post. Mod has closed it and best to delete it if they would please. Sorry. :o :o |
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http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/FE-00032.pdf Assuming the basic shape and construction of the field is the same, including the yellow plates (a big assumption!), there could very easily be four gates, each between a pair of the yellow plates. Aside from that, the gates appear to look the same way they always have. Of course, they might just be pulling a fast one on us... |
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The first thing I thought of when I saw this was garbage cans with the "step to open" mechanism:
![]() Perhaps it's something that human players can step on to control a certain aspect of the field, such as a chute to release game pieces or the position of a scoring location. |
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The gate is standard issue from past years - it serves as an ingress/egress point for the robots and field crew. The "horizontal" part of the gate is external to the field; the "vertical" part flexes down to provide a ramp. However, I'm puzzled by the bar above the diamond plate. I know there is a hinge on the right side to allow it to flex vertical to let the robot(s) through, but I can't tell what that pin on the left side is. Was there a spring mechanism to lock it in place that I'm forgetting? As I recall, it was just a round pipe that the removable polycarb section would slide on.
I'm having trouble visualizing a wide gate in the middle of the field. Traditionally, that is where the scoring table would be. If robots enter/exit through the middle of the field, they would be going over a LOT of wires connected to the field. This leads me to two conclusions: either the field is completely wireless and the scoring table is somewhere completely different, or there is one main entry/exit point on one side of the field. Perhaps there is a large field component directly across from this gate that would take up too much space to allow gates on the other side. This gives me trouble, too - FIRST fields have been traditionally symmetrical both horizontally and vertically. Because there are so many different configurations of arenas that host FIRST events and offseasons, this has been a necessity. |
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Also, the wider? gates could indicate a slightly longer field if the other parts are used from previous years. |
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Perhaps the GDC tried to create a field where the 2009 KOP wheels could be used for high traction :confused:?
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This is only my 3rd year in FRC. I've always known the field with the plastic siding. Was that nonexistent in previous years? |
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they cover up a brace (which lies underneath) to hold up the side of the field. Two would be necessary for two braces.... on last year's field... a brace on the side closest to the end was NOT necessary because of the way the field was constructed in the corners. If anything if we make the assumption that the gates are in the same place as other years in relation to the ends, this would indicate that the corners of the field are not like last year and need a brace on the outside to support the side of the field. Another assumption could be made that the gates have been moved closer to the middle... and that more bracing is needed because of that... Remember its a render... and not complete...hence the absence of detail. I say it means "not regolith" and that's about all we can say.. I can't wait until HINT #3 which will come on Saturday...around 7:00 AM my time.... It will be a really big hint.... |
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I have a feeling that the shadow of the railing is really important in this hint, for some odd reason. I don't know why, it's just my initial impression. Plus, Dave did say not to see things as they appear. A shadow of the field might somehow tell a different story than the field pieces themselves.
Just food for thought. |
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Here is the hint http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr....aspx?id=16119
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The yellow things move up, vision target...
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Just wondering, but should this be in the Rumor Mill board?
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2003 - boxes, no siding 2004 - 13" diamter balls, siding 2005 - Tertras, no siding 2006 - Poof balls, siding etc. I wouldn't read into this too much though because we don't know the detail level of the render. Siding may have been left off for clarity so we would see something else. |
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For anyone still trying to find the picture themselves it's right herehttp://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr....aspx?id=16119
when you go to usfirt.org you need to click the frc tab at the top and then the link will be at the updates section underneath the picture My thought right now is that were back to the regular old carpet, but in my opinion everyone will be so excited that they can have robots with high traction they'll lack maneuverability in their design. I think that last years wheels may even come in handy if used right. Also, and I really hope this is it, I think that since many people have been saying the gate looks like it's been shifted down towards the middle of the field (a little not to the middle). That this suggest there is a type of field element in the way. This supports what several students and mentors have been saying on my team, that we will be seeing some ramps this year. |
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the yellow could be stations for human players, such as a few years ago when we had to stack tertas and the tetras were hand put in the field by stations similar to these
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Hey, this may be a game trend that actually makes sense! |
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If you zoom in the yellow things are conected to a special square tubing while they other sides are cirular, they are defently part of the game or somthing.
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I think the GDC is sending us a message -- "HI" -- if you tilt them both the same amount it spells out that message ^^
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As stated by Bob Steele said earlier, it could just be a change in the design of the corners that requires the change in the number of plates. Also, due to the zoom, it is impossible to locate the access point. I am speculating a third gate though... A side note, use spell check. EDIT: Last year had the ball corral areas for empty cells, that could have been the reason two yellow plates were not needed, as the bar crossing the corner created enough support. |
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Am I the only person happy to be back on carpet... That's all I needed to see.
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The yellow plates are on the outside of the field, and are there to keep people from tripping. They are polyethylene (plastic) panels. I'm guessing the reason they are flat in the second game hint is because they were too lazy to actually model the curve. They have hook Velcro on the bottom, and are stuck to the carpet just by putting pressure down on them, as they bend quite easily.
2009: (yellow) ![]() 2008: (green with caution tape) ![]() 2007: (yellow) ![]() 2006: (yellow) ![]() Quote:
Edit: I just noticed, that in the photo from 2004 linked to above, instead of the polyethylene plastic panels, there's diamond plate protecting the field supports. So the move to the yellow plastic was probably just to save costs. |
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And the gate is in the middle of the field see post above^^^ top picture... The only thing left is to verify that it is indeed carpet in the picture. And if it is i am guessing that they are just giving us a hint that it is back to carpet. So is it carpet or not?!?! |
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