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-   -   2010 Game Hint #2 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79625)

Spylake 06-01-2010 06:09

2010 Game Hint #2
 
Warming up the bullpen for #2

Since they named the last hint #1 it stands to reason that there should be at least a game hint #2.

Jimmy Cao 06-01-2010 07:13

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I saw the thread and thought "Oh, there's a #2? I was just on the FIRST website and I didn't see it"

Then I was throughly disappointed by the lack of a game hint in this thread.

Anyways, its reasonable that there might be another hint. Or they could just make us wait.

3 more days til kickoff!

Josh Drake 06-01-2010 07:17

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I don't think they could give another hint without revealing the entire game. The hints are sooooo detailed. One more hint, and kick-off will be like the time you opened your presents before Christmas and re-wrapped them.:p

ttldomination 06-01-2010 07:41

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Kick off is only three days away. I think it would be a waste of effort to release another game hint. I think the next big release will be the release of the encrypted manual.

FIRSTtm134 06-01-2010 07:58

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I was thinking... maybe another hint is the #1? maybe we are on teams by ourselves?

STICKY 06-01-2010 08:31

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRSTtm134 (Post 893366)
I was thinking... maybe another hint is the #1? maybe we are on teams by ourselves?

Thats actually a good idea. I would have never have thought of that.

Kimmeh 06-01-2010 08:56

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRSTtm134 (Post 893366)
I was thinking... maybe another hint is the #1? maybe we are on teams by ourselves?


Not to discount your idea, but game hints are normally numbered. It makes them easier to reference and there is normally more than one. (ie: Last year, game hint #1 was the Moon Fish, and game hint #2 was the poem.) Then again, it is the GCD we're talking about, so who knows? :D My suggestion? Wait three more days and everything will make sense...



Lunacy Game Hint #2 for those who don't remember:
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

TD912 06-01-2010 11:16

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Well, this was just posted today on Bill's FRC Blog:
Quote:

Oh and there might be a good reason to monitor the FRC landing page of the usfirst.org website today…
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...-saturday.html

TD912 06-01-2010 11:21

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Well, from Bill's Blog:
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...-saturday.html
Quote:

Oh and there might be a good reason to monitor the FRC landing page of the usfirst.org website today…

TKM.368 06-01-2010 11:48

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=16119

ATannahill 06-01-2010 11:55

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
looks like more carpeted fields.

IndySam 06-01-2010 11:55

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 

Alan Anderson 06-01-2010 11:55

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TKM.368 (Post 893417)

Interesting. It looks like a standard FRC field gate, but it is not obviously near the end of the field. Is this a third gate in the middle of the side?

Karibou 06-01-2010 11:59

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Yay carpet!

Any ideas on what those yellow things are? They look like they're slightly elevated , and held in place by the side of the field.

Kaushal.K 06-01-2010 12:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Would someone be able to verify that the "Gate" looks wider than it has been in past seasons? or is that just me seeing things because of the scaling of the image?

scottydoh 06-01-2010 12:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TKM.368 (Post 893417)

Hmm...Doesn't look like this is going to tell us much of anything usefull. :p

But heres what I took from it;
The gate set-up looks a little different, not sure why
Appears to be carpet on the floor again
And Im guessing the yellow pieces are to protect the tripping hazard created by the wall buttress

ATannahill 06-01-2010 12:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893423)
I know that the flooring isn't very detailed, but it looks like another year of regolith to me.

Any ideas on what those yellow things are? They look like they're slightly elevated , and held in place by the side of the field.

The yellow things have velcro on the otherside and hold the side of the field down to the the carpet.

Stephen of REX 06-01-2010 12:01

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Human players have to stand on the yellow plates?

mjgard 06-01-2010 12:01

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
What could the yellow plat forms be for. It appears they are slightly elevated and not mounted on the standard round tube. Instead on an angled square tube.

IndySam 06-01-2010 12:02

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893423)
I know that the flooring isn't very detailed, but it looks like another year of regolith to me.

Any ideas on what those yellow things are? They look like they're slightly elevated , and held in place by the side of the field.

the yellow things are there to stop people from tripping over the supports. They have always been there.

rbrown1 06-01-2010 12:03

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Looking at the shadow is the field going to be under low light?

Chris is me 06-01-2010 12:05

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Cool, we're driving on carpet. That's really all I can get from the picture.

I wonder if the field will be as empty as the model seems to indicate it will be. I guess FIRST hasn't put anything "on" the field since 2007.

Can someone with a CAD of a FIRST field guesstimate how long the segment we're viewing is, and what portion of the field is apparently empty space?

EricVanWyk 06-01-2010 12:07

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen of REX (Post 893427)
Human players have to stand on the yellow plates?

That was my first thought. Remember the pressure plates?

Ziaholic 06-01-2010 12:09

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Interesting ... but how did we get from Post #8 to Post #9?

I don't see any link to Clue #2 from the FRC Landing page ... hmmm ...


As for the clue itself ... I'm fixated on the yellow pads ... will there be people standing on them? probably not ... too close to the rails ... perhaps they'll have game-pieces on them ...

JohnBoucher 06-01-2010 12:11

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The gates were larger on the new field they were trying out at River Rage.

grampashades 06-01-2010 12:13

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher (Post 893434)
The gates were larger on the new field they were trying out at River Rage.

New robot dimensions maybe?

Chris is me 06-01-2010 12:14

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher (Post 893434)
The gates were larger on the new field they were trying out at River Rage.

Were they significantly off center?

Also, another hunch. The first hint's filename was 1st Clue.jpg, while the second was 2010 Clue 2.jpg. Perhaps we're playing a big game of Clue; the first thing was the murder weapon, the second is the location, and the third clue will be whodunit!

IndySam 06-01-2010 12:15

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I got it, I got it.



We will be playing a game on a field with robots.

Rob Colatutto 06-01-2010 12:16

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 893422)
Interesting. It looks like a standard FRC field gate, but it is not obviously near the end of the field. Is this a third gate in the middle of the side?

It would seem to suggest that.

I would certainly hope the gates needed to be moved towards the center of the field due to a very large game structure having obstructed the previous placements.

Travis Hoffman 06-01-2010 12:22

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Colatutto (Post 893440)
It would seem to suggest that.

I would certainly hope the gates needed to be moved towards the center of the field due to a very large game structure having obstructed the previous placements.


This hint has some usefulness to it, so I will chime in.

I agree with Rob. My first thought was that robots will have to enter and exit from the middle of the field because the usual gate locations are now blocked by something such as goals or automatic game piece dispenser-type thingies, preferably surrounded by diabolical ramp- or step-like structures.

Justin Montois 06-01-2010 12:31

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I think the field looks a "little different" because I think it's the Delta Field(Or a more complete variation) that was tested at River Rage. They were confirmed as being wider.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/34329

The main thing about this hint that I gather is that if this is indeed showing a loading gate in the middle of the field, which you can't be certain of, but if it is, then the only reason to put it in the middle would be if there's something in the way of having the loading gates in their normal places. Maybe large scoring structures in the far ends?

Luckily we only have to wait 3 more days...

Edit: two above me have said almost the exact same thing.... therefore we must be right :)

rsisk 06-01-2010 12:32

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
If the gate is in the center of the field, does that mean we go from four gates to two? How is that going to affect traffic flow? Especially when the scoring table and a lot of the electronics run to the middle of the field?

So maybe they are not in the center, but just offset more from the driver stations, maybe at the next side rail segment (I think there are 7 per side)

mprikril 06-01-2010 12:32

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I would not be so quick to assume there is one large gate in the middle. FIRST wants to get more matches for each team during a Regional event. One way is to reduce the amount of time between matches for removing robots and placing new ones.

If there are only two gates at the middle of the long edges of a rectangular field, how can this be quicker than the previous field with four gates? Reducing the number of robots playing in a match also reduces the number of matches per team, so any entrances and exits to the field must allow a similar or faster flow of teams on and off the field.

Nate Smith 06-01-2010 12:35

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The last few posts have basically covered my thoughts on the new hint, but here's my take on them:
  • Gate appears to be offset more than in years past toward the center of the field. If my memory is correct, this same picture in previous years would have shown the driver station wall.
  • Nothing on the field similar to the regolith from last year. The "floor" in this picture looks like the standard carpet texture used in the game animations.
  • My guess on the position change for the gate is due to some sort of structure at the ends of the field.
  • The center of the field appears to be somewhat open, as there are no "hints" of any structures in the immediate area surrounding the gate.

kwotremb 06-01-2010 12:35

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman (Post 893442)
This hint has some usefulness to it, so I will chime in.

I agree with Rob. My first thought was that robots will have to enter and exit from the middle of the field because the usual gate locations are now blocked by something such as goals or automatic game piece dispenser-type thingies, preferably surrounded by diabolical ramp- or step-like structures.

I hope so, with some sort of structure or variation of the playing field (ramps, platforms, etc.) the games just seem to have a different type of challenge. And with all the years of flat playing fields lately it would be nice for a change.

Rosiebotboss 06-01-2010 12:36

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grampashades (Post 893436)
New robot dimensions maybe?

I highly doubt the max robot dimensions will become larger. Standard door sizes dictate robot dimensions, at least in one direction. (28 inches)

Madison 06-01-2010 12:37

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
This is a model of the existing fields, not the delta field.

ALIBI 06-01-2010 12:46

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 893422)
Interesting. It looks like a standard FRC field gate, but it is not obviously near the end of the field. Is this a third gate in the middle of the side?

Maybe the field is no longer a rectangle? Most venues would allow for changes in the shape of the field. If they changed to 2 alliances of 4 robots or 4 alliances of 2 robots, eight sides would allow for 4 drivers stations and four gated sides. Yellow and green alliances along side red and blue alliances?

Thing2_1723 06-01-2010 12:46

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
My first thought was the starting spots for the robots. Since there is only two yellow spots, this might confirm some peoples thoughts of a 2v2v2 game. However, there might also be another spot further along the edge of the field.

Wayne TenBrink 06-01-2010 12:46

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The standard field perimeter is modular. Side wall sections can be assembled in a way that puts the gates closer to the center.

Based on the angle of the shadows, I think that the shadow from the 6 foot high end wall would be seen if the gate were in the "traditional" location.

Obviously, they needed extra room at the ends of the field for the wading pools...

Rusty shaklferd 06-01-2010 12:50

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
All I am getting out of the two hints are the shadows. idk, but maybe this is a big hint to the game, suggesting that lighting will be a major factor. I'm just guessing off of this, and well it does appear to be carpet flooring to me too but i don't know what to gather from that other then we will actually have traction this year :D

Nick Lawrence 06-01-2010 12:51

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Considering that this is a CAD model, there is the possibility that this is "incomplete," and they just took parts of the field out.

-Nick

vhcook 06-01-2010 12:59

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thing2_1723 (Post 893458)
My first thought was the starting spots for the robots. Since there is only two yellow spots, this might confirm some peoples thoughts of a 2v2v2 game. However, there might also be another spot further along the edge of the field.

Based on the normal closed position of the gate in previous years, in which the inside portion of the ramp is the one that is folded up, the yellow spots are outside the fence. This would seem to rule them out as robot starting positions.

dtengineering 06-01-2010 13:05

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Smith (Post 893450)
My guess on the position change for the gate is due to some sort of structure at the ends of the field.

We were thinking the same thing here... but then realized that this doesn't have to be at the centre of the field... it could be on the ends of the field and the driver stations could be on the side of the field where the field control set up has been in past years.


After all, kickoff is going to look different this year.... (wasn't that one of the posts on Bill's blog?)

Or the driver stations could be somewhat further away. With cameras and IP networking, technically the driver station could be on the moon. Well... maybe low earth orbit... the moon would have a bit of time lag. Darn speed of light!


Jason

Donut 06-01-2010 13:07

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I never thought a picture of the loading gate could be so significant :) Although it doesn't tell us the main scoring elements, we can take away many things mentioned already:

We are back on good old carpet again (so those offseason drivetrains from two years ago may be good again!).

If there are human players they are unlikely to be scoring or loading anything from the sides of the field, since the gate placement there leaves a relatively small carpeting strip on the sides. So we can assume human players will be behind the driver's station again (or at center field).

A substantial portion near the sides of the field is wide open, meaning any field elements are likely to be near the center or drivers stations.

If the gate is indeed wider (which it appears to be), we may see a dimension change (perhaps teams will be REQUIRED to build robot wider than they are long)? They could have also widened the gates just so the increasingly common wide robots fit easier through them.

The game appears to be on a field, and will likely have robots (pure speculation of course).

Collin Fultz 06-01-2010 13:08

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I like the idea of a ramp structure at each end of the field similar to 2006 with another elevated spot on each side of that that is about 12" higher and worth more points. Something like 10 bonus points for being on top of the "lower" platform (accessable via ramp) and 30 bonus points for being on top of the "higher" platform (accessable via climbing).

EricVanWyk 06-01-2010 13:08

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dtengineering (Post 893468)

Or the driver stations could be somewhat further away. With cameras and IP networking, technically the driver station could be on the moon. Well... maybe low earth orbit... the moon would have a bit of time lag. Darn speed of light!

I think they solved the speed of light issues with those weird reflections...

IKE 06-01-2010 13:17

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk (Post 893432)
That was my first thought. Remember the pressure plates?

My thoughts exactly. Coupled with a gate, maybe a HP from each team can enter the field, and pressure plates kill the robots...

Peter Matteson 06-01-2010 13:22

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The yellow plates/mats/whatever just make me think of 2003 and 2005 when we had pressure pads for human players that enabled/disabled autonomous or the robots.

BTW I hope the gates and we are allowed to bring lift assists/carts onto the field this year. In my opinion carrying the robots as far as we are and shuttling the carts around has been asking for trouble since we hit ~150 lbs for a robot with bumpers and a battery.

Cyberphil 06-01-2010 13:24

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziaholic (Post 893433)
As for the clue itself ... I'm fixated on the yellow pads ... will there be people standing on them? probably not ... too close to the rails ... perhaps they'll have game-pieces on them ...

These Yellow pads were on most fields this past year, but most of them werent yellow. They were curved metal pieces of sheet metal or plastic with velcro on the bottom. They were there last year too:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33956

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33599


As you can see, these were here before, we just never took much notice of them. They aren't curved in the cad picture, but that is what they are representing.


I do like the idea of a 2v2v2 game, that sounds like a lot of fun. I think we should just wait till the kickoff, but speculations are fun.

jerry w 06-01-2010 13:25

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Remember the trackball-game. The corners of the field were angled. So the entry gates were moved away from the ends. It looks again like the gates are moved in. But this time there is no angle visible in the corner. The field element at the end of the field may be the reason for the move. Unfortunatly we cant see the end of the field in this view.
:mad:

Jacob Paikoff 06-01-2010 13:33

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Who says the driver station is off the bottom of the picture. What if it is off the top side, you wouldn't be able to see the shadow.

DUCKIE 06-01-2010 13:38

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Looks like the typical gate design.
I cannot tell if gate is larger than usual.... but I would not complain. A larger gate would make moving robots and people on and off field safer.

It is missing the Plexiglas/Lexan sections that have protected the sides of the field for the last 3 or 4 years though.

Michael Corsetto 06-01-2010 13:43

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The lack of any tape on this portion of the field suggests less boundaries/no robot starting positions in this area. Robot starting positions will likely be directly in front of the drivers stations, either your's or your opponent's ;)

Ryan Dognaux 06-01-2010 13:44

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I'm just happy to see that carpet has made its return for 2010. That's the biggest thing that this hint tells me, traction has returned.

johnr 06-01-2010 13:49

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
where is this on frc page? did they take it down?

GaryVoshol 06-01-2010 13:54

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893423)
Any ideas on what those yellow things are?

They cover the field wall supports so people don't trip.

robodude03 06-01-2010 13:58

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnr (Post 893494)
where is this on frc page? did they take it down?

Below you will find the direct link to the picture on the FIRST website:

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=16119

JimWright949 06-01-2010 13:58

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I think this is a gate in the middle of the field, the yellow is to indicate where the yellow alliance is to enter the field. 3x3x3 game, without wheels is my guess.

-Jim

MikePres 06-01-2010 13:59

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
What are the chances that we're playing a RECYCLED game? meaning, a mix of all the 2000-2009 games to celebrate the new decade?

GaryVoshol 06-01-2010 14:01

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimWright949 (Post 893497)
I think this is a gate in the middle of the field, the yellow is to indicate where the yellow alliance is to enter the field. 3x3x3 game, without wheels is my guess.

-Jim

But how do you navigate there from the homepage, or from the FRC page as Bill's blog noted?

DUCKIE 06-01-2010 14:04

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The Yellow squares in the drawing are to prevent/identify tripping hazards around the fields. All fields had them... maybe not all were yellow... but they were there.

<See Here>

dustinjeremy2k 06-01-2010 14:05

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DUCKY (Post 893490)
Looks like the typical gate design.

I agree. I can't make out any significant change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUCKY (Post 893490)
I cannot tell if gate is larger than usual.... but I would not complain. A larger gate would make moving robots and people on and off field safer.

Again, I'm with you there. One thing I'd like to point out is there has ALWAYS been two complete sections between the corner of the playing field and the gate. Check your old photos. We cannot see two complete sections on either side, so... we can't really tell where this is on the field! I don't know why everyone is assuming the gate could only fit in the center?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUCKY (Post 893490)
It is missing the Plexiglas/Lexan sections that have protected the sides of the field for the last 3 or 4 years though.

This was my second observation, but again, I think it's a mistake (like the yellow trip hazard plates that should be bent instead of flat). I can't imagine that FIRST would run the risk of having a robot catch one of the uprights and damage the field.... Small beans.

The hint is simply CARPET... yahoo! I guess I didn't waste my summer on another pointless drive concept!

ALIBI 06-01-2010 14:26

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
See the second photo on post #49 by Cyberphill. The "yellow" plate was only on one side of the gate, now there is a "yellow" plate on both sides in the clue. The photograph shows four "yellow" plates between the gates. The gates have simply been moved one section in towards the middle and they now have the "yellow" plates on both sides.

TD912 06-01-2010 14:31

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
How'd you find the URL to the hint already? I don't see it on the FRC page above Hint 1... Or was it just some lucky content id number guessing?

EDIT: Looks like it's up on the site now...

TD912 06-01-2010 14:46

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rsisk (Post 893447)
If the gate is in the center of the field, does that mean we go from four gates to two? How is that going to affect traffic flow? Especially when the scoring table and a lot of the electronics run to the middle of the field?

So maybe they are not in the center, but just offset more from the driver stations, maybe at the next side rail segment (I think there are 7 per side)

Maybe the field is a different shape? Triangle? Hexagon? With starting positions or maybe some kind of goal in each corner? You never know...

And maybe it's just the perspective, but the carpet/regolith/floor(maybe rubberized or *high* friction floors, or maybe even a padded floor??) ends right behind the view of the pipe guardrail. Just a random observation.

johnr 06-01-2010 14:48

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Still can't find hint directly from home site. Maybe all is not what it appears.

Ziaholic 06-01-2010 14:52

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnr (Post 893524)
Still can't find hint directly from home site. Maybe all is not what it appears.

Same here. I noted my concerns back on page 2 of this thread. Somehow, between posts #8 and #9, somebody spontaneously found Clue-2. Puzzling.

Eugene Fang 06-01-2010 14:54

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TD912 (Post 893522)
Maybe the field is a different shape? Triangle? Hexagon? With starting positions or maybe some kind of goal in each corner? You never know...

And maybe it's just the perspective, but the carpet/regolith/floor(maybe rubberized or *high* friction floors, anyone?) ends right behind the view of the pipe guardrail. Just a random observation.

Note to everyone: the picture is rendered as if one was standing on the field and looking out. The yellow is on the outside of the field.

Ziaholic 06-01-2010 15:04

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Weisse (Post 893534)


This link was already posted on page 1 of this thread ... not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, or with the new "real" thread that you created.


:confused: :confused: :confused:


(but at least now I can see a link to Hint #2 on the main FRC page ... so that question is resolved ...)

JesseK 06-01-2010 15:05

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
So...the floor looks like carpet. Dave's game hint is "What is may not be what it [seems]". So it's not really carpet. It is flat though. Or is it?

Or perhaps the hint refers to how hard it can be for a robot to open the gate. Field reset volunteers know what I'm talking about. It's a simple latch ... except ... Or perhaps it refers to the hump underneath the gate, meaning the field isn't flat.

See, it's so ambiguous I simply must be correct.

TD912 06-01-2010 15:06

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikat (Post 893529)
Note to everyone: the picture is rendered as if one was standing on the field and looking out. The yellow is on the outside of the field.

Yeah I realized that. But the floor texture inside the field doesn't look like carpet from previous years, which is why I made the comment about rubberized/high traction flooring. Maybe it's the 'opposite' of regolith? Or maybe they just used a different program or texture to render it?

Ted Weisse 06-01-2010 15:14

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
[quote=Ziaholic;893537]This link was already posted on page 1 of this thread ... not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, or with the new "real" thread that you created.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry bad post.

Mod has closed it and best to delete it if they would please.

Sorry.

:o :o

bduddy 06-01-2010 15:17

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ALIBI (Post 893516)
See the second photo on post #49 by Cyberphill. The "yellow" plate was only on one side of the gate, now there is a "yellow" plate on both sides in the clue. The photograph shows four "yellow" plates between the gates. The gates have simply been moved one section in towards the middle and they now have the "yellow" plates on both sides.

To make this clearer, look at this picture:
http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/FE-00032.pdf

Assuming the basic shape and construction of the field is the same, including the yellow plates (a big assumption!), there could very easily be four gates, each between a pair of the yellow plates. Aside from that, the gates appear to look the same way they always have. Of course, they might just be pulling a fast one on us...

lingomaniac88 06-01-2010 15:25

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The first thing I thought of when I saw this was garbage cans with the "step to open" mechanism:



Perhaps it's something that human players can step on to control a certain aspect of the field, such as a chute to release game pieces or the position of a scoring location.

Taylor 06-01-2010 15:32

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The gate is standard issue from past years - it serves as an ingress/egress point for the robots and field crew. The "horizontal" part of the gate is external to the field; the "vertical" part flexes down to provide a ramp. However, I'm puzzled by the bar above the diamond plate. I know there is a hinge on the right side to allow it to flex vertical to let the robot(s) through, but I can't tell what that pin on the left side is. Was there a spring mechanism to lock it in place that I'm forgetting? As I recall, it was just a round pipe that the removable polycarb section would slide on.

I'm having trouble visualizing a wide gate in the middle of the field. Traditionally, that is where the scoring table would be. If robots enter/exit through the middle of the field, they would be going over a LOT of wires connected to the field. This leads me to two conclusions: either the field is completely wireless and the scoring table is somewhere completely different, or there is one main entry/exit point on one side of the field. Perhaps there is a large field component directly across from this gate that would take up too much space to allow gates on the other side. This gives me trouble, too - FIRST fields have been traditionally symmetrical both horizontally and vertically. Because there are so many different configurations of arenas that host FIRST events and offseasons, this has been a necessity.

Robert Cawthon 06-01-2010 15:39

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893423)
I know that the flooring isn't very detailed, but it looks like another year of regolith to me.

Any ideas on what those yellow things are? They look like they're slightly elevated , and held in place by the side of the field.

Not Regolith. Those yellow things are normally heavy plastic or aluminum with velcro on the bottom to grab the railing and hold it in place and to keep people from tripping over the support. If that is what they are again this year, it looks to me like we are back on carpet! YEAH! I didn't like the regolith. :)

Also, the wider? gates could indicate a slightly longer field if the other parts are used from previous years.

JesseK 06-01-2010 15:44

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Perhaps the GDC tried to create a field where the 2009 KOP wheels could be used for high traction :confused:?

Karibou 06-01-2010 15:44

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DUCKY (Post 893490)
It is missing the Plexiglas/Lexan sections that have protected the sides of the field for the last 3 or 4 years though.

Maybe they just removed that to make the objects in this image more visible? I don't know why they would decide to be THAT nice, though.

This is only my 3rd year in FRC. I've always known the field with the plastic siding. Was that nonexistent in previous years?

Bob Steele 06-01-2010 15:45

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 893544)
To make this clearer, look at this picture:
http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/FE-00032.pdf

Assuming the basic shape and construction of the field is the same, including the yellow plates (a big assumption!), there could very easily be four gates, each between a pair of the yellow plates. Aside from that, the gates appear to look the same way they always have. Of course, they might just be pulling a fast one on us...

My only reaction to the yellow plates is that they are there for a purpose. ( And have been for a number of years...)
they cover up a brace (which lies underneath) to hold up the side of the field.

Two would be necessary for two braces.... on last year's field... a brace on the side closest to the end was NOT necessary because of the way the field was constructed in the corners.

If anything if we make the assumption that the gates are in the same place as other years in relation to the ends, this would indicate that the corners of the field are not like last year and need a brace on the outside to support the side of the field.

Another assumption could be made that the gates have been moved closer to the middle... and that more bracing is needed because of that...

Remember its a render... and not complete...hence the absence of detail.

I say it means "not regolith" and that's about all we can say..

I can't wait until HINT #3 which will come on Saturday...around 7:00 AM my time....

It will be a really big hint....

TD912 06-01-2010 15:48

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 893557)
Perhaps the GDC tried to create a field where the 2009 KOP wheels could be used for high traction :confused:?

Unless they are giving us different wheels this year... Or the GDC threw us a curveball and the field will be grey colored regolith... >_>

AcesJames 06-01-2010 15:49

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I have a feeling that the shadow of the railing is really important in this hint, for some odd reason. I don't know why, it's just my initial impression. Plus, Dave did say not to see things as they appear. A shadow of the field might somehow tell a different story than the field pieces themselves.

Just food for thought.

JKWarrior 06-01-2010 15:53

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Here is the hint http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr....aspx?id=16119

the man 06-01-2010 15:54

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The yellow things move up, vision target...

TD912 06-01-2010 15:54

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Just wondering, but should this be in the Rumor Mill board?

Peter Matteson 06-01-2010 15:55

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893558)
This is only my 3rd year in FRC. I've always known the field with the plastic siding. Was that nonexistent in previous years?

The plastic siding has more or less been game object dependent.
2003 - boxes, no siding
2004 - 13" diamter balls, siding
2005 - Tertras, no siding
2006 - Poof balls, siding
etc.

I wouldn't read into this too much though because we don't know the detail level of the render. Siding may have been left off for clarity so we would see something else.

jamie_1930 06-01-2010 15:57

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
For anyone still trying to find the picture themselves it's right herehttp://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr....aspx?id=16119
when you go to usfirt.org you need to click the frc tab at the top and then the link will be at the updates section underneath the picture

My thought right now is that were back to the regular old carpet, but in my opinion everyone will be so excited that they can have robots with high traction they'll lack maneuverability in their design. I think that last years wheels may even come in handy if used right.

Also, and I really hope this is it, I think that since many people have been saying the gate looks like it's been shifted down towards the middle of the field (a little not to the middle). That this suggest there is a type of field element in the way. This supports what several students and mentors have been saying on my team, that we will be seeing some ramps this year.

JKWarrior 06-01-2010 16:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
the yellow could be stations for human players, such as a few years ago when we had to stack tertas and the tetras were hand put in the field by stations similar to these

jamie_1930 06-01-2010 16:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TD912 (Post 893565)
Just wondering, but should this be in the Rumor Mill board?

It seems like it should be to many people and that's why we have to keep answering this question. No, the Game Hints are released officially by FIRST so it's not a rumor, it's a clue.

Karibou 06-01-2010 16:00

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson (Post 893566)
The plastic siding has more or less been game object dependent.
2003 - boxes, no siding
2004 - 13" diamter balls, siding
2005 - Tertras, no siding
2006 - Poof balls, siding
etc.

I wouldn't read into this too much though because we don't know the detail level of the render. Siding may have been left off for clarity so we would see something else.

I had guessed that it would likely be there if we were dealing with smaller objects/balls.
Hey, this may be a game trend that actually makes sense!

JKWarrior 06-01-2010 16:05

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IKE (Post 893475)
My thoughts exactly. Coupled with a gate, maybe a HP from each team can enter the field, and pressure plates kill the robots...

right BATTLE BOTS! but seriously pressure plates could work but i see no wires, but this is a low quality CAD program

the man 06-01-2010 16:06

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
If you zoom in the yellow things are conected to a special square tubing while they other sides are cirular, they are defently part of the game or somthing.

jamie_1930 06-01-2010 16:11

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKWarrior (Post 893574)
right BATTLE BOTS! but seriously pressure plates could work but i see no wires, but this is a low quality CAD program

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndySam (Post 893429)
the yellow things are there to stop people from tripping over the supports. They have always been there.

That's all that need be said.

Robert Cawthon 06-01-2010 16:13

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the man (Post 893575)
If you zoom in the yellow things are conected to a special square tubing while they other sides are cirular, they are defently part of the game or somthing.

Nope. The round tubes go from top to bottom of the rail. The square one goes to a plate on the floor at an angle from the top rail (to form a triangle for support) to keep the rail from falling outwards when hit by a bot. Nice try, though. Thinking outside the box.

ehochstein 06-01-2010 16:18

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
I think the GDC is sending us a message -- "HI" -- if you tilt them both the same amount it spells out that message ^^

JKWarrior 06-01-2010 16:19

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 893544)
To make this clearer, look at this picture:
http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/FE-00032.pdf

Assuming the basic shape and construction of the field is the same, including the yellow plates (a big assumption!), there could very easily be four gates, each between a pair of the yellow plates. Aside from that, the gates appear to look the same way they always have. Of course, they might just be pulling a fast one on us...

maybe the gate has been moved to the center of the field (replaceing the human player positions in your link

rulesall2 06-01-2010 16:26

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the man (Post 893575)
If you zoom in the yellow things are conected to a special square tubing while they other sides are cirular, they are defently part of the game or somthing.

no, if you look at the link above ^^ from last year, it was connected the same way. although as this becomes picked apart, more details will come out like this one.

As stated by Bob Steele said earlier, it could just be a change in the design of the corners that requires the change in the number of plates. Also, due to the zoom, it is impossible to locate the access point. I am speculating a third gate though...

A side note, use spell check.

EDIT: Last year had the ball corral areas for empty cells, that could have been the reason two yellow plates were not needed, as the bar crossing the corner created enough support.

XXShadowXX 06-01-2010 16:27

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Am I the only person happy to be back on carpet... That's all I needed to see.

artdutra04 06-01-2010 16:39

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
The yellow plates are on the outside of the field, and are there to keep people from tripping. They are polyethylene (plastic) panels. I'm guessing the reason they are flat in the second game hint is because they were too lazy to actually model the curve. They have hook Velcro on the bottom, and are stuck to the carpet just by putting pressure down on them, as they bend quite easily.

2009: (yellow)


2008: (green with caution tape)


2007: (yellow)


2006: (yellow)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 893558)
Maybe they just removed that to make the objects in this image more visible? I don't know why they would decide to be THAT nice, though.

This is only my 3rd year in FRC. I've always known the field with the plastic siding. Was that nonexistent in previous years?

2005 was the first year of using polycarbonate side panels along the entire field. Before that, the sides of the field were just the aluminum tubing with a single wire strung in between; the only places that had polycarbonate panels were at the gates. I know this first hand, because our 2004 robot got stuck on these wires a lot. :o

Edit: I just noticed, that in the photo from 2004 linked to above, instead of the polyethylene plastic panels, there's diamond plate protecting the field supports. So the move to the yellow plastic was probably just to save costs.

FRC1612 06-01-2010 16:39

Re: 2010 Game Hint #2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DUCKY (Post 893502)
The Yellow squares in the drawing are to prevent/identify tripping hazards around the fields. All fields had them... maybe not all were yellow... but they were there.

<See Here>

OKAY... So the yellow things where there! :) thats not new. The gates are bigger as some have posted... SEE HERE
And the gate is in the middle of the field see post above^^^ top picture...

The only thing left is to verify that it is indeed carpet in the picture. And if it is i am guessing that they are just giving us a hint that it is back to carpet.

So is it carpet or not?!?!


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