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-   -   Breakaway Discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79709)

Aaron Lussier 09-01-2010 14:33
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
At least there will not be any lost time doing field reset. With only twelve balls that the teams place themselves; match set up will move much quicker then in previous years.

,4lex S. 09-01-2010 14:49
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
This game is epic. It is already apparent to me that we are going to see robots that can do some rediculous stuff (as usual I guess...). I can't wait for these 3 things:

1) I can see the bumps becoming jumps... hopefully suspensions are considered by teams building fast robots. A couple feet of air will definitely make FIRST cooler (to the general public)...
2) The Triple Hang (Robot 1 on bar, two robots on robot 1)
3) Scoring from the back in autonomous, using the new vision system; which should work without too many hiccups (I have considerable faith in the new contrast based system, despite arena lighting).

dysxqer 09-01-2010 15:08
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Since people can use the Finale extensions to help right themselves when they fall over, it's going to be interesting to see what people create that not only right themselves but also enable them hang onto the Platforms.

I think most people will not use the middle paths under the platforms as their only mode of transportation to pass the bumps, because when other teams see that this is their only way to get past the bumps, a robot could be designated to simply block this exit, trapping the robot for the entire game. However, it's probably a good idea to make it small enough to get under the Platform just in case.

I think the 3 point suspension possibility will definitely be used, since every point seems to matter in this game, even more than before.

Zack247 09-01-2010 15:17
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
I think this will be fun to watch. FIRST is what you make it, people are always into FIRST.

I do wish that there were more than 12 balls. This is a very small amount for 6 robots to deal with.

dysxqer 09-01-2010 15:32
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack247 (Post 894746)
I think this will be fun to watch. FIRST is what you make it, people are always into FIRST.

I do wish that there were more than 12 balls. This is a very small amount for 6 robots to deal with.
I think it's more than you think. Balls take maybe 15 seconds to return to the field of play, so there will probably be at least ~9-10 balls on the field at a time. Nobody knows how fast scoring will end up being, so that will affect it too.

Shawyan 09-01-2010 15:52
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Likes:
  • The bumps are interesting

Dislikes:
  • One team member has looked through the tournament rules. I extremely dislike the scoring method used this Unless I am mistaken, a team's W/L record does not come into effect.

    The amount of restrictions placed on the robot such as not being able to protrude past the bumpers for more than 2 seconds, etc. etc.

It is my understanding that it is a requirement to have the bumpers going the full 100% around the robot. Is this correct? (I hope I read it wrong)

EricH 09-01-2010 15:53
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawyan (Post 894780)
It is my understanding that it is a requirement to have the bumpers going the full 100% around the robot. Is this correct? (I hope I read it wrong)
You read it right.

Kimmeh 09-01-2010 15:55
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 894705)
I also think that we have a team to thank. Last year, a team requested that changing bumper colors by changing colors be allowed (or rather, is this legal?). They were denied. This year, it is one of the approved methods to change colors. Talk about giving the designers ideas! (Sadly, I don't remember which team asked that.)
After reading last year's section on bumpers, and comparing it to this years, I believe I'm correct in saying we can't change colors in the same way you're thinking. This year bumpers have to be either red or blue. <R07>

Quote:
<R07> The fabric covering the BUMPERS must be solid red or solid blue in color. Visually, the red or blue must be as close to the corresponding color in the FIRST logo as reasonable (i.e. to a reasonably astute observer, they appear similar). The only markings permitted on the BUMPER fabric cover are the team number (see Rule <R15>).

OScubed 09-01-2010 16:13
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
So much for our Red Camo bumpers :(

Chris is me 09-01-2010 16:13
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 894705)
I also think that we have a team to thank. Last year, a team requested that changing bumper colors by changing colors be allowed (or rather, is this legal?). They were denied. This year, it is one of the approved methods to change colors. Talk about giving the designers ideas! (Sadly, I don't remember which team asked that.)
I believe it was 1038.

As for my thoughts on the game, it makes my head hurt. My only negative thought about it is that kicking soccer balls into goals doesn't seem very exciting, but I suspect I'll be proven wrong here.

I really like how this game isn't a one task wonder, there are at least 3 distinctly different tasks I'm juggling in my head, and many differences between individual implementations of these. This doesn't look easy.

EricH 09-01-2010 16:24
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmeh (Post 894783)
After reading last year's section on bumpers, and comparing it to this years, I believe I'm correct in saying we can't change colors in the same way you're thinking. This year bumpers have to be either red or blue. <R07>
Keep reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farther on in the manual
<R12> The color of the BUMPERS will be used to identify the ALLIANCE to which the ROBOT has been assigned, red or blue. Therefore, each ROBOT must be able to display red BUMPERS and blue BUMPERS This may be done via either of two acceptable methods:

A. Each ROBOT may be built with two complete sets of interchangeable BUMPERS, one red and one blue. If this method is chosen, the BUMPERS must be identical except for the color of the covering fabric (see Rule <R07-F>).
B. The BUMPERS may be constructed with a fabric covering of one color (see Rule <R07-F>), and then covered with a removable fabric shroud of the opposite color when appropriate. The removable cover must completely enclose the BUMPERS and conceal the contrasting fabric. The cover must be constructed solely of fabric and a fastening/restraining system to hold the cover in place. The fastening/restraining system must extend no further than one inch beyond the FRAME PERIMETER (i.e. no further than any other hard parts of the BUMPER - see Rule <R07-N>). Please note that the fastening/restraining system MUST be designed with robust performance in mind. The restraints must hold the removable cover in place during vigorous interactions with other ROBOTS and FIELD elements during the MATCH without allowing the cover to come off.

mathking 09-01-2010 16:32
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Qualification in seeding is not based on wins and losses, but on total seeding points. But in the elimination matches advancement is purely from winning. Which will make for an interesting change in game strategy going from qualification to elimination. There is much less incentive to play defense in qualification, since you want high scores. (For example, if you win 3 - 2 you get 7 seeding points. If you lose 13 - 12, you get 13 seeding points. And your opponents get 37 seeding points.) Then in elimination 1-0 is as good as 23 - 22.

Kimmeh 09-01-2010 16:36
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 894801)
Keep reading.

Oops. My bad. The first time I read that section (won't be the last), I had a 4 year old on my lap. I read the rules before and after it, so I must have gotten sidetracked and skipped it. Thanks.

LavastormSW 09-01-2010 17:00
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
I find it interesting how the red goals are on the red side and vice versa. I think most of the competition will be played out in the middle as the balls are returned to the center with the alliances fighting over them. It will definitely be an interesting year.

ttldomination 09-01-2010 17:10
Re: Breakaway Discussion
 
I don't think that the game will be played that much in the middle.

Looking further at the restraints of the balls, meaning they can only enter 3" into your robot frame, they can't leave the ground, you can't leave the robot frame except for a couple of seconds to extend into the bumper frame. I don't see many robots with the ability to consistently score from the middle. I think the more successful machines will be making accurate, and quick goals from the closest area.


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