Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

So am I the only one who noticed that in the montage of game design there was some serious safely glasses violations? Dean Kamen and Woodie Flowers were both on a feild with robots sans safety glasses... :(

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

The robots they make for the demo videos generally don't have very many moving parts, I doubt they were very dangerous.

I prefer to go with the statement of "Safety Always, not Safety First".

Although Safety First works much better for obvious marketing reasons.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

If I wanted to nitpick, I could also point out how that robot nearly ran into Dean or how Dean stuck his hand into what looked like a live robot. But you see I don't want to nitpick, so I won't point that stuff out. Instead, I'll simply say that their safety errors were hardly egregious and weren't something I even noticed the first time.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

They want us to wear gloves when we work too, and they didn't say anything about not wearing gloves while machining. Wearing those leather gloves while milling is extremely dangerous. Instead of you getting a small cut on your finger (without gloves), your hand could get pulled into the mill. Basic safety.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Very true. And the same applies to drill presses, lathes, grinders, and several other power tools.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Definitely. If I had worn gloves while using the lathe for the last few years, I probably would have maybe 3 fewer fingers, as opposed to small scratches and broken nails (despite heavy safety precautions, hey, things still happen). Even though wearing gloves while machining is dangerous, you still must ALWAYS pay attention to your work, and work as safely as you possibly can.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

In those cases where rotating machinery precludes gloves, the best habit is to vigilantly pay attention. A cut or abrasion is simply the result of inattention, always. Think about safety always and even the little cuts go away.

Come look at my hands during build season, you'll see what I mean.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

really? is this even necessary to nitpick about?

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Yes.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

What I want to know is why FIRST allows teams to only have two people carry the robot on to the competition field. I saw yesterday that every time the GDC picked up a robot they had three people lift the robot. From the safety regulations I have seen, FIRST should require three people to carry the robot on and off the field.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

This was a demo. On the field with live robots is usually a safety hazard, and could be done by Dean and Woodie only because it was a demo. Likewise, the demo was designed to not produce any eye hazards.

Still, wearing safety glasses would have been symbolic ...

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

was it a safety violation according to FIRST rules? yes...


but c'mon personally feel like this thread is a bit ridiculous its not like they were using a hammer ::ouch:: HAHA

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Currently, the field gates only allow for two people to safely carry the robot on. (Unless they've widened the gate this year? I haven't looked that closely at that part of the field).

I'm guessing they figure it's safer for two people to go through the gate than to have a third person (carrying part of the robot) trip and fall while trying to step over the railing. I've had a robot come crashing down on my knee before- I was on crutches for the rest of build season and it was awful.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Imagine that three robots are in the midfield at the end of the match. If three people from each team go pick the robot, thats 9 team members. Two Field reset crew members would also be in the midfield collecting the balls. And at least four Refs would be in the midfield helping/watching the team members remove the robots from the towers. Not to mention that the new teams will be entering the field and placing their robots into position.

That's a load of people in a relatively small space surrounded by field edges and tall bumps. Hazard waiting to happen. 2 per team is plenty.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

the only time you'd possibly need more is when you're removing the bot from the tower

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

I agree. This might sound crazy but even having 2 members per team is too much. But I know each team needs two, and I am not discouraging from that. Though I would not really see a problem with maybe 1 or 2 of the teams having a third person, if all 6 teams had an extra person, that means on average we would have about 35 people on the field (if you count 4 refs, 3 members times 6, 6 scorers, then 5-7 field reset people) We already have almost 30 people on the field normally but this year it would be harder, since the field is broken up into sections, that means 10 people in a 342 square foot area. (If my calculations are correct). And then the two robots that are most likely going to be in that area, which takes away about 24 sq. ft., plus one team is bound to bring in a cart which can take up about 18 sq. ft., not to mention any balls that will be on the floor, so we'll take away about 5 sq. ft. for that, which leaves us with 294 sq. ft. for 10 people to move around in. (I can't believe I just calculated that.) But then if we add in the extra 6, that means 12 people to 294 sq. ft.
There is also a higher tripping hazard for us mere humans with the bumpers (though the only ones who should be attempting that would be the refs, scorers, and field reset) and that is no good when we add 6 more bodies. Just not a good idea to me.


Did that even make sense to anyone?

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

It makes a lot of sense. Keep a eye on the web on the 20th for the Suffield Shakedown scrimmage. It's hosted by Aces High team 176 & will be web-cast by the Gaelhawks, team 230. To View the web-cast go to http://www.shsrobotics.org/ on Feb 20th.

This is the official scrimmage FIRST uses to test their equipment & a chance for those lucky 30 robots to engage in prior to week #1. Even thought it is web-cast, we do occasionally run into unforeseen complications.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

You know when the school health nurse advises "always wear a condom"?

She doesn't actually mean "ALWAYS". ::safety::

I think Dean and Woodie have a pretty good idea of when they need safety glasses and when they don't.

Jason

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

What rule is this?

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Wearing longsleeved shirts and having long hair can also be very dangerous.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Wearing long sleeved shirts I understand, but you can have long hair and be perfectly safe, as long as it is tied back or otherwise safely secured out of the way. It is not having the long hair that is dangerous, but instead it can be unsafe if it is not handled properly.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Long-sleeved shirts can be OK, too. Provided, of course, that the sleeves are buttoned or rolled up a bit. It's if they're loose that you get a problem.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

I tend to think that I am equally capable of making that decision. However, the rule is that whenever I am near operating robots and or pits, etc. I must wear safety glasses. Unless some sort of mystical aura surrounds some folks and not others, I think the rule applies to all.

All animals are equal.

Blake
PS: Also, the one-time infraction is equally serious (or not ...) for all. This strikes me as a tempest in a teapot.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Exactly, and therefore other animals cannot be more equal than others. Those animals including Dean and Woodie.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Sometimes people who have been doing things for 19 years become complacent ... and that is the exact moment when someone gets hurt.

Dean and Woodie are in a position to influence many people. If they can have a 'good idea' when not to be safe, what does that tell all the kids watching them?

Dean and Woodie made a mistake by not wearing safety glasses. 'Nuff said.

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Too right mate

Re: Kamen & Flower's Saftey Violations: Kickoff
 

Ok that was very random. Anyway, I along with Team Max 1071 will be attending. I am looking forward to this event very much!