Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

I thought this same bot up a few days ago and have been toying with the idea. There's a very significant downside to this strategy. Yes, it gives you a theoretically very predictable source of balls. But it is also extremely limited. You're only getting balls your team actually scores, and you're never recovering any other balls from midfield. If you don't give yourself any ability to get down at some point, then all you've done is make yourself an extremely predictable opponent. If I know my opponent is going to attempt this strategy, the counter strategy becomes obvious. I have my defender concentrate solely on ejecting balls out of my opponents scoring zone and into the midfield, since my midfielder is now completely unopposed there. If I have a kicker that can score even 25% of the time from midfield then you're now in a world of hurt, because he can line up his shots unopposed.

Basically, you're trading your mobility and flexibility for what you think will be a steady supply of balls. If that supply gets slowly whittled down, then your plan fails.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Once the ball leaves the ball return G47 no longer applies.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Im quite impressed with this idea...

And actually in regards to this:
What Im not sure is if the FINALE configuration or the BALL INTERACTION volume takes precedence... If in fact its the FINALE Configuration (Im doubtful, though) then who says the mechanism has to be above your bumper? Granted this might be tough, but if you can extend to your finale configuration, you can be outside of your frame perimeter, which means you are free to create an active mechanism BELOW your bumper that directs the balls... again my guess is that the ball interaction volume still is required there... but this is a really cool thought.

Another way to make it work is to use your hanging device to angle your entire robot and "slide"....

I dunno, even if this isnt quite legal, its a really creative idea that is very very close to being legal with the current rules!

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

If it can be done without CARRYING, its worth trying
However, one really can't judge effectiveness before its tested

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Carrying is when the ball is in contact with your robot when it is not on the feild. I would think that since the returning balls are midair that it would be considered carrying. Even if your scoring goals each time you then have a
1pt penalty. The only plus side is the 2pts you get as soon as the game ends and up to eight if the other robots can attatch to you. But the other team can do the same. But you would probally get a red card before the end of the match.

You also have that problem with the six balls the opposing alliance get at the begining. Unless your alliance can quickly get control of all twelve balls you will either have to abandon your offensive position (which may not be a problem) or leave the midefeild unapposed.

But even with the penalties, you could have your alliance try to stall the other bots so they can't get up onto the tower in time*. Plug the tunnel, park in front of the side of the tower. Or maybe even park on the platform**.

A very good idea. But probally illigal.

*You can mess with other robots during the finale, but you can't if they are in contact with the tower.

**Not sure about this one. I'll assume no in the name of Gracious Professionalism.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

in order for a ball to be carried... it must also be possessed. if your definition were true (which its not) any time any ball touched the top of any robot, it would be a penelty.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

In that case, I'll make sure to have two robots hold yours right under the ball drops. The refs can't call pinning on me; they can call carrying on you every time a ball drops onto you. I'll let you score one net point, though. Just to get the coopertition bonus.[/sarcasm]

Until we get an OFFICIAL answer, please don't make that statement. Even under the current (non-interpreted) rules, it's when a ball is in possession of your robot and off the ground.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

I really can't believe this--I thought that this group of rookies that I've been working with came up with a really unique idea, something that no one has mentioned before and that no one would expect before it was too late. Something they could really make their mark with...

Now this post, with the EXACT strategy they came up with, was posted...:eek:

Absolutely amazing...kudos, pbhead!!

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

An interesting idea that as mentioned more than one team is willing to attempt if the GDC deems enough components of it legal.

However if you are going for this strategy you had better build a ROBUST design (the capitalization emphasis is needed). There is no protection granted to a robot attempting to elevate itself on the tower/platform prior to the finale period, and I can say for myself at least that if I were a driver against this robot at least one member of my alliance would be pinning, blocking, and doing everything possible to prevent this robot from doing its job, especially if its good at it. I would expect enough defense to be played that this design might not be feasible because the resources needed to hang and redirect balls might make the drivetrain too weak to ever get the robot to the tower under constant harassment.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

I wish the GDC would come out with their ruling on <44> and <45> ("carring" and "possesion").

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

What ruling are you after? In my opinion, the definitions of CARRYING and POSSESSING are crystal clear this year.

Does the ball stay in the same relative position to the robot when the robot moves or changes orientation (e.g. backs up or spins)? If so, you are POSSESSING this ball.

If you are POSSESSING the ball, is it also not in contact with the FIELD? If so, you are CARRYING this ball.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Similar to an old Ghostbusters quote about what answer you should always give when asked if you're a god. Whenever you have a "god-bot" you should keep the design to yourself until after ship date, while still building said "god-bot" for yourself. That way you don't give away your secret weapon.

Or in this case, the secret weapon that a few other teams had thought about and were planning on using themselves! Now this team has to do some different brainstorming on how we'll differentiate ourselves now that so many teams that read Delphi might look like us. We thought we were gonna be cool to be the only bot climbing the tower right off the bat, or at least one of the few who had thought outside the kicking box. Now the cat's out of the bag.

We have put a few carefully worded questions into Q&A on what is considered carrying in regards to structures on top of the robot, but it wasn't enough to give away a design approach. Coopertition is good and all, but I really like seeing the crazy, yet effective ideas that come from the quieter camps each year, and was hoping to join their ranks with a sneaky bot this year. Now we need to rethink how we are gonna be different so back to the drawing board.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Regardless of the legality here, I am still not convinced that having a robot with only this one function is worth losing a member of your alliance, forfeiting ball control on the field.

If you hang on the tower for an entire game, you have left your alliance outnumbered on the field.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

Please remember, even in the heat of battle, we are all here for the same purpose. We are not enemies, we are gracious opponents.

Re: The ultimate game breaker bot.
 

I see your point, but may I counter with this...
There has been a lot of talk about the mid-fielder as a key role in any stratagy. The mid-field bot is responsible for ball control and blocking the tunnels. The design discused in this form controls balls more effectivly by not having to chase them down and then kick them over the bump, making up for it being less active. You could also drop back down to block the tunnel. While there are down sides to the "God-bot" stratagy and obvious counter-stratagies, if the team can mix things up and stay unpredictable, I think most alliances will be looking for a God-bot.