Chief Delphi - new festo valves

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Pneumatics (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54)

- - new festo valves (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80740)

Vikesrock

23-01-2010 05:48

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsasaki (Post 905075)

Im sorry but im not exactly getting this but from what i've been hearing/reading the pneumatic bumper is connected to the 24v source on the distribution board (2 left over leads on the WAGO connector that connects the cRio to the Distribution board) and then the two ends of the solenoid being connected to the bumper right? So if this is right that means were gonna have to use 2010 and only the 2010 festo valves hence the 2008 and 2009 SMC and Festo valves are not going to have the right amount of voltage thus not working right???? This years pneumatics are complicated:mad: we should have sticked with the old SMC and Festo solenoid
thanks for you help

That is correct, you could only power the 2010 Kit solenoid valve off of the 24V Solenoid Breakout (or any purchased 24V solenoid valves that meets the requirements of the rules).

You can use an additional Solenoid Breakout board connected to a 20A breaker to power 12V solenoids on the same robot. You could also use one or more Spike Relays to power 12V solenoids.

jsasaki

23-01-2010 05:50

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikesrock (Post 905078)

Thanks alot for you help !:D

Mark McLeod

23-01-2010 08:10

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhsrobotics1671 (Post 905060)

So are you still allowed to use the 2009 festos?

Thanks for the reminder, I neglected to address that point.

The 2009 and earlier KOP Festo solenoid is ~~NOT~~ legal for use on the robot this year.

They are commercially available (thanks Corey).

smevawala

23-01-2010 19:10

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 905030)

By "other" Festo I assume you mean the 2009 KOP Festo?
That is NOT legal for use on the robot this year, because it must be commercially available (find someplace selling them-eBay doesn't count). Those were a special FIRST only edition.
2009 Festo Wiring
The 2 wires then go back to a 12v Solenoid Bumper or a Spike (Spike is then controlled by a PWM cable connected to a Digital Sidecar Relay.

Um R33, from my knowledge, says that the 2009 Festo valve is legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRC Manual

<R33> COTS items from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS items that are
no longer commercially available may be used under the following conditions:
A. The item must be functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the
VENDOR (e.g. a part that has non-functional label markings added would be permitted,
but a part that has device-specific mounting holes added would be prohibited), and
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2010 FRC materials/parts use rules.

Please tell me if I am correct or not.

Mark McLeod

23-01-2010 20:35

Re: new festo valves

Corey has found them commercially available and corrected my error.

I believe past Festo valves were not a COTS item, but custom-made for FIRST. At least as I understand it, they were a special production run specifically for FIRST and they couldn't be purchased anywhere but through the special Festo FIRST site. That would bring them under Rule <R34>. However, it's certainly something that we could get a ruling on in the Q&A. It's possible, since they were donated by Festo, rather than contracted by FIRST, that FIRST treated the Festo valves as COTS.
I'll post the question to the Q&A.

Quote:

<R34> Parts custom-made for FIRST and provided to FRC teams in the Kit Of Parts for previous FRC competitions (e.g. 2006 FRC transmissions, custom-made motor couplers, custom sensor strips, FRC CMUcam II modules, etc.) may be used if the part is still functionally equivalent to the original condition and:

A. The part is now generally available as a COTS item from an accessible source, or

B. All information required to fabricate the part (e.g. complete drawings, materials list, Gerber Files where appropriate, etc.) is openly available, such that any team could fabricate the part (or have it fabricated for them).

Otherwise, such parts are prohibited from use in the 2010 competition.

Jones571

23-01-2010 20:41

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 905577)

I believe past Festo valves were not a COTS item, but custom-made for FIRST. At least as I understand it, they were a special production run specifically for FIRST. That would bring them under Rule <R34>. However, it's certainly something that we could get a ruling on in the Q&A. It's possible, since they were donated by Festo, that FIRST treated the Festo valves as COTS.

You can get the older festo "block style" ones from any festo distributor just give them the p/n 13026238 hands down COTS

http://www.pneuaire.com/13026238.html

Mark McLeod

23-01-2010 21:17

Re: new festo valves

I stand corrected.

If they are available, then there's no issue.
Thanks Corey.

GoldenAI

30-01-2010 15:17

Re: new festo valves

okay I know the 09 Festo's are legal (#13026238), but what about 08's?
Festo P/N #13026684. That would help us out a lot. I'm pretty sure that was implied, but I want clarification

GoldenAI

Team2340

30-01-2010 15:45

Re: new festo valves

ok, so i've looked over these posts over and over again and i don't want to sound stupid, but for some reason i'm not comprehending where you connect the solinoid valve, i understand that you connect it to the bumper on the cRio, but there are only two wires on the solinoid valve, where on the bumper, there are three prongs for signal, +, -. so i think that's where i'm getting confused and i'm totally new at even knowing what pneumatics are. I hope that once i figure out where to connect the valve, we will be all set, but i don't know.
Oh on the other hand, for the pressure switch... where does that get hooked up? or does it at all??
Sorry one last thing, is anyone using a pressure transducer?? if so what and how and where am i going to put that??

:) thanks so much

Jones571

30-01-2010 16:14

Re: new festo valves

Jamey,

check out this site they cover hooking up pneumatics very well.
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/

Mark McLeod

31-01-2010 09:04

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team2340 (Post 909999)

... where you connect the solenoid valve, i understand that you connect it to the bumper on the cRio, but there are only two wires on the solenoid valve, where on the bumper, there are three prongs for signal, +, -.

I see the problem. There are two different types of Breakouts that connect to the cRIO Moduled that look very much alike. (2) Analog Breakouts and (1) Solenoid Breakout board.

The Breakout with 3-prongs is the Analog Breakout.
The Breakout with 2-prongs is the Solenoid Breakout.

The 2 wires from a solenoid connect to the two prongs on the Solenoid Breakout. The Solenoid Breakout gets attached to the cRIO Module that has the 8 tiny status lights on it. The cRIO Solenoid Module comes in slot 8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team2340 (Post 909999)

Oh on the other hand, for the pressure switch... where does that get hooked up? or does it at all??

The pressure switch gets wired to the signal and ground pins of Digital Input 1 on the Digital Sidecar. Do not use the power pin.
The switch itself gets attached to a fitting that allows it to be connected to the pneumatic tubing on the high pressure side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team2340 (Post 909999)

Sorry one last thing, is anyone using a pressure transducer?? if so what and how and where am i going to put that??

The wiring for a pressure transducer goes to the Analog Bumper.
A pressure transducer gets attached to a brass pneumatic fitting so that it can be attached to the pneumatic tubing. Usually you want to have it on the high pressure side too. The same way the pressure switch is attached.

Dad1279

05-02-2010 11:59

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 905613)

I stand corrected.

If they are available, then there's no issue.
Thanks Corey.

They may be available, but how about Cv? Max Cv is .32, I have been unable to find published Cv. Above link relates Cv to Orifice size, but what is the orifice size of this valve?

Daniel_LaFleur

05-02-2010 12:18

Re: new festo valves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 905613)

I stand corrected.

If they are available, then there's no issue.
Thanks Corey.

Mark,

Your link tries to relate orifice size to Cv. This is not a complete and accurate picture, and may only be good for one specific valve at a specific pressure. There are other factors that go into Cv such as orifice shape, Plunger shape, etc that need to be factored in.

Dad1279

05-02-2010 13:19

Re: new festo valves

I asked Festo via email(product.support@us.festo.com) this was the response:

The Cv factor on the VPLE18 valve is Cv 0.297 at 80 psi.
If there are any other questions do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,

Robert

Mark McLeod

05-02-2010 13:28

Re: new festo valves

I wasn't trying to make any claims as regards Cv when I posted that link.
It was just the first one I could quickly find that included a photo of the valve, so we could see it had the same outward appearance as last year's model.

I don't believe the manufacturer was making any claims for other makers or even other models. They do list it as approximate Cv for this particular model. The orifice isn't the same as the port size if that's what you were thinking. A 1/8" orifice is what we got in past KOPs with an approximate Cv of .30 We can find the exact Cv (0.297) if we drill down into the product catalog.

In any case, FIRST 2010 Q&A has ruled the past Festo valve as legal for this year's competition.

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