new festo valves
 

anyone know how to hook up the new festo valves with electrical and pneumatics. cant seems to find it.

also it says 24v, will it work on 12v?

Re: new festo valves
 

im looking for the pdf drawing and instructions for the old and new festo's. you the D shape one and the new longer rectangle one

Re: new festo valves
 

The 2-port side of the Festo get fittings and are then tubed to either end of the cylinder.
On the 3-port side only the middle port gets a fitting and that's the air-in port from your 60psi regulator.
Each end gets a wire connector and each side gets wired back to pins on the Solenoid bumper (cannot be wired to a Spike relay). You can take the 2-pin connector cables that came in the KOP, cut them in half and use an end for each side of the solenoid.

It needs 24v so the Solenoid bumper must have it's power wired to the Power Distribution Panel's two open 24v connections (for the cRIO power).

Search the Festo site for VUVG-L10-B52-T-M7-1P3
Quick Summary
Documentation
Datasheet

Here's what it looks like with the ports on and wiring.
The blue dots on the top are for manual operation. Push them for a momentary test or push & twist them with a screwdriver to stay on. Make sure you have a working pressure of 1.5-8 bar.:ahh: Okay, okay it needs at least 22 psi to operate.

Re: new festo valves
 

Im sorry for not understanding this but does this mean that we don't connect the pneumatic solenoid to a 20 amp fuse on the power distribution board?

Re: new festo valves
 

Correct. You supply 24 V to the Solenoid Breakout Board as per:

<R45> All electric power utilized by the ROBOT shall be distributed from the load terminals of the Power Distribution Board. Circuits may not bypass the Power Distribution Board to connect directly to the 120-amp loop.

A. The cRIO-FRC power input must be connected to the 24 Vdc supply terminals on the Power Distribution Board. With the exception of one Solenoid Breakout Board, no other electrical load can be connected to these terminals.

Re: new festo valves
 

Thanks a lot Ted

Re: new festo valves
 

go here: http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/....aspx?id=10934
and look at robot power distribution diagrams.

there are 12 and 24 vdc variants

Re: new festo valves
 

is there wiring diagrams for both festos?

Re: new festo valves
 

Just to clarify, any debris that gets into the valve body can potentially lock it up internally. If you leave any of the ports unconnected you need to make sure it can't ever get debris in it (dirt, trash, metal files from drilling on the robot, etc). Otherwise, typically you can discharge through some small length of tubing or into a filtered output line so you can have a buffer or a protection against that.

Re: new festo valves
 

Be careful, the 2009 Festo is 12v and not compatable with the 2010 Festo which is 24v.

By "other" Festo I assume you mean the 2009 KOP Festo?
That is NOT legal for use on the robot this year, because it is commercially available.
2009 Festo Wiring
The 2 wires then go back to a 12v Solenoid Bumper or a Spike (Spike is then controlled by a PWM cable connected to a Digital Sidecar Relay.

The 2010 Festo wiring is just plug in the wired connectors that came with it, then the red and black wires go to a 24v Solenoid Bumper.

Re: new festo valves
 

So are you still allowed to use the 2009 festos?

Re: new festo valves
 

the diagram like last year says that all the analog and pneumatic bumpers go directly to a 20-30 amp on the power distribution board???

Re: new festo valves
 

Grab the latest revision of the Robot Power Distribution Diagram.

The first diagram in that document is the same as last year and is for teams using 12V solenoids.

The second page contains a schematic for teams using 24V solenoids where the solenoid breakout (in the second to last slot on the cRIO) is connected to the 24V supply on the end of the Power Distribution board.

The third page shows how to wire a system to use 2 Solenoid Breakout boards to power both 12V and 24V solenoids on the robot.

Re: new festo valves
 

Im sorry but im not exactly getting this but from what i've been hearing/reading the pneumatic bumper is connected to the 24v source on the distribution board (2 left over leads on the WAGO connector that connects the cRio to the Distribution board) and then the two ends of the solenoid being connected to the bumper right? So if this is right that means were gonna have to use 2010 and only the 2010 festo valves hence the 2008 and 2009 SMC and Festo valves are not going to have the right amount of voltage thus not working right???? This years pneumatics are complicated:mad: we should have sticked with the old SMC and Festo solenoid
thanks for you help

Re: new festo valves
 

Hey thanks alot I just didn't realize that I could scroll down. Im so sorry but not that i've cleared the air with that it'll be much easier thanks !:D

Re: new festo valves
 

That is correct, you could only power the 2010 Kit solenoid valve off of the 24V Solenoid Breakout (or any purchased 24V solenoid valves that meets the requirements of the rules).

You can use an additional Solenoid Breakout board connected to a 20A breaker to power 12V solenoids on the same robot. You could also use one or more Spike Relays to power 12V solenoids.

Re: new festo valves
 

Thanks alot for you help !:D

Re: new festo valves
 

Thanks for the reminder, I neglected to address that point.

The 2009 and earlier KOP Festo solenoid is NOT legal for use on the robot this year.

They are commercially available (thanks Corey).

Re: new festo valves
 

Um R33, from my knowledge, says that the 2009 Festo valve is legal.


Please tell me if I am correct or not.

Re: new festo valves
 

Corey has found them commercially available and corrected my error.

I believe past Festo valves were not a COTS item, but custom-made for FIRST. At least as I understand it, they were a special production run specifically for FIRST and they couldn't be purchased anywhere but through the special Festo FIRST site. That would bring them under Rule <R34>. However, it's certainly something that we could get a ruling on in the Q&A. It's possible, since they were donated by Festo, rather than contracted by FIRST, that FIRST treated the Festo valves as COTS.
I'll post the question to the Q&A.

Re: new festo valves
 

You can get the older festo "block style" ones from any festo distributor just give them the p/n 13026238 hands down COTS

http://www.pneuaire.com/13026238.html

Re: new festo valves
 

I stand corrected.

If they are available, then there's no issue.
Thanks Corey.

Re: new festo valves
 

okay I know the 09 Festo's are legal (#13026238), but what about 08's?
Festo P/N #13026684. That would help us out a lot. I'm pretty sure that was implied, but I want clarification

GoldenAI

Re: new festo valves
 

ok, so i've looked over these posts over and over again and i don't want to sound stupid, but for some reason i'm not comprehending where you connect the solinoid valve, i understand that you connect it to the bumper on the cRio, but there are only two wires on the solinoid valve, where on the bumper, there are three prongs for signal, +, -. so i think that's where i'm getting confused and i'm totally new at even knowing what pneumatics are. I hope that once i figure out where to connect the valve, we will be all set, but i don't know.
Oh on the other hand, for the pressure switch... where does that get hooked up? or does it at all??
Sorry one last thing, is anyone using a pressure transducer?? if so what and how and where am i going to put that??

:) thanks so much

Re: new festo valves
 

Jamey,

check out this site they cover hooking up pneumatics very well.
http://www.team358.org/files/pneumatic/

Re: new festo valves
 

I see the problem. There are two different types of Breakouts that connect to the cRIO Moduled that look very much alike. (2) Analog Breakouts and (1) Solenoid Breakout board.

• The Breakout with 3-prongs is the Analog Breakout.
• The Breakout with 2-prongs is the Solenoid Breakout.

The 2 wires from a solenoid connect to the two prongs on the Solenoid Breakout. The Solenoid Breakout gets attached to the cRIO Module that has the 8 tiny status lights on it. The cRIO Solenoid Module comes in slot 8.


The pressure switch gets wired to the signal and ground pins of Digital Input 1 on the Digital Sidecar. Do not use the power pin.
The switch itself gets attached to a fitting that allows it to be connected to the pneumatic tubing on the high pressure side.

The wiring for a pressure transducer goes to the Analog Bumper.
A pressure transducer gets attached to a brass pneumatic fitting so that it can be attached to the pneumatic tubing. Usually you want to have it on the high pressure side too. The same way the pressure switch is attached.

Re: new festo valves
 

They may be available, but how about Cv? Max Cv is .32, I have been unable to find published Cv. Above link relates Cv to Orifice size, but what is the orifice size of this valve?

Re: new festo valves
 

Mark,

Your link tries to relate orifice size to Cv. This is not a complete and accurate picture, and may only be good for one specific valve at a specific pressure. There are other factors that go into Cv such as orifice shape, Plunger shape, etc that need to be factored in.

Re: new festo valves
 

I asked Festo via email(product.support@us.festo.com) this was the response:

The Cv factor on the VPLE18 valve is Cv 0.297 at 80 psi.
If there are any other questions do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,

Robert

Re: new festo valves
 

I wasn't trying to make any claims as regards Cv when I posted that link.
It was just the first one I could quickly find that included a photo of the valve, so we could see it had the same outward appearance as last year's model.

I don't believe the manufacturer was making any claims for other makers or even other models. They do list it as approximate Cv for this particular model. The orifice isn't the same as the port size if that's what you were thinking. A 1/8" orifice is what we got in past KOPs with an approximate Cv of .30 We can find the exact Cv (0.297) if we drill down into the product catalog.

In any case, FIRST 2010 Q&A has ruled the past Festo valve as legal for this year's competition.

Re: new festo valves
 

I managed to download the document 2010FestoFIRSTvalve.pdf . In the electrical connection portion it says to attach one end of each cable to a 24vdc supply and the other to an 0VDC signal. Does it matter which cable goes where? Do both cables have to be doubled up to function as one? Do the cables have to be reversed to move as one? I understand they go to the pnuematic breakout. It also says the red cable is 24vdc and black is 0. Which one goes where?

Just for fat: Is the Red cable ALWAYS live, and black ALWAYS nuetral except when connecting intermediate devices?

Thanks

Re: new festo valves
 

To teams who have already used the 2009 Festo single solenoids in regionals this year:

Was the Pneuaire website (http://www.pneuaire.com/4waysova.html) accepted as valid documentation for the cv and orifice size?

Thanks,
Dave

Re: new festo valves
 

Dave,
I brought that printed out along with this Q&A from first stating that the valve was legal: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14677

While we were not asked for further documentation at the regionals we attended, better safe than sorry.

Re: new festo valves
 

If I were inspecting your robot, I'd be inclined to reject the Pneuaire chart you linked.

The C_v of a valve depends on its internal geometry, measured at a given set of working fluid conditions. Relating the port diameter to C_v is not even remotely accurate—especially when it isn't clear whether those are actual diameters, or nominal NPT diameters. Also, despite a similar-looking valve being pictured (to the 2009-and-earlier Festo valves), there's no model number or manufacturer specified.

Now, with regard to C_v and that Festo valve, you can derive it from the flow rating in standard cubic feet per minute (SCFM), which is given on the specification sheet (as "cfm"). The conversion process is documented here (for example).

Since FIRST hasn't specified the pressure at which the 0.32 C_v rating applies, you might rightly wonder how to calculate the C_v properly. Manufacturers often provide C_v at the maximum operating pressure (usually around 120 lb/in², but varying considerably depending on the parts). By contrast, FIRST established this limit based on the flow of the 2010 KOP Festo valve at 60 lb/in²,* but never specified this in the rules.

My calculations for the 2009 KOP Festo valve (unofficially) yield C_v = 0.395 at 25°C and 60 lb/in², and C_v = 0.177 at the same temperature and 120 lb/in². To be absolutely sure, contact Festo using the phone number listed on the datasheet and get the maximum pressure rating, operating pressure rating and C_v (and the pressure and temperature at which that C_v is valid).

Of course, you can also run multiple valves in parallel, and increase the flow of the entire system.

*According to the explanation that was provided to robot inspectors by FIRST staff.

Re: new festo valves
 

so both sets of wires off the 2010 festo valve go directly to the 24v bumper, but different terminals?

Re: new festo valves
 

I think there is a rule which requires every motion to be controlled by flow in exactly one valve - so two valves in parallel would not be legal. The multi-valve issue came up in a GDC response to a question from a team looking to use a three position cylinder.

Was this true in previous years?

Re: new festo valves
 

This thread is from the 2010 season and does not reference current 2011 rules.

In previous year's there was no rule against feeding a cylinder from multiple valves.

In 2011 there is such a rule.