Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

We are wondering if we would be allowed to use the globe motor from the 2009 KOP in this years robot. Our interpretation of the rules this year was no, however we would like other opinions...

Thank you,

All Saints ASTECHZ - 2994

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

You may not use the Globe motor from any previous years. Sorry. Other motors as outlined below may be used.

<R52> Motors specifically permitted on 2010 FRC ROBOTS include:
A. All motors, actuators, and servos listed in the 2010 KOP,
B. An unlimited number of COTS servos with a maximum output torque of 55 oz-in and maximum rotational speed of 100 rpm at 6 Vdc (e.g. HITEC model HS-322HD or HS-325HB servos, as provided in the KOP),
C. An unlimited number of FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) servos (HITEC HS-475HB servos),
D. One, two, or three additional 2½” CIM motors (part #FR801-001 and/or M4-R0062-12) in addition to those provided in the KOP. This means that up to five, and no more, 2½” CIM motors can be used on the ROBOT.

With this added in...
<R24> Individual COMPONENTS or MECHANISMS retrieved from previous ROBOTS and used on 2010 ROBOTS must have their undepreciated cost included in the 2010 ROBOT cost accounting, and applied to the overall cost limits.
E. Identical one-to-one SPARE PARTS for motors, actuators, and servos provided in the 2010 KOP that may have failed or become damaged.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Thanks a lot, we thought the same thing...we just wanted to be sure :)
Do you happen to know if there is a way to separate the globe motor from its gear box to swap in a different motor?

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Use a small punch or nail to tap the roll pins along the gearbox/motor interface inward.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

I have never heard of anyone ever using the globe transmission on a different motor.... not that it could not be done.... it would certainly be an interesting engineering project.

A faster solution would be to use a Banebot transmission for any of the mabuchi motors or the fisher price.
All of those motors can also be used with a variety of gear boxes from Andy Mark ...

Good luck!!

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

While it may be sensible, I'm not so sure it would be faster...check availability of the Banebots P60's. We're pretty high up the waitlist, and ours won't ship until Monday (allegedly :confused:). We've been waiting almost two weeks. If you're going to order, order them NOW.

A-M is also experiencing 1-2 day delays in shipping in-stock items, and their GEM500 planetaries are out of stock across the board. They do have the AM Planetary in stock.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

As I recall from having one apart, the motor shaft of the Globe is significantly larger than that of the F-P or Mabuchi motors. It looked like it would be difficult to find a matching pinion which would press on any of the KOP motors.

If you do find a way, I hope you'll share it around - I like the size and robustness of the Globe gearbox and AM has those really nice little hubs just made for them.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Is the globe motor gearbox legal to use? From what I've heard no one has made or sold them in a long time.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

<R33> allows use of unmodified parts from previous KOP, however in this case they would be modified to be used with a different motor.

Best to ask on the Q&A if it is going on the final robot.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Dad,
In past years, the Globe motor transmission was not considered to be part of the motor and therefore was allowed to be modified. It is likely, if one checks, that the transmission is still available from Globe and therefore would fit under the COTS definitions.

From 2009
<R53> So that the maximum power level of every ROBOT is the same, motors and servos used on

B. The gearboxes for the Fisher-Price and Globe motors are not considered “integral” and may be separated from the motors.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

This is the important bit of information you need to decide, right?

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

If not a COTS item the following rules (and possibly others) apply...

<R33> COTS items from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS items that are no longer commercially available may be used under the following conditions:
A. The item must be functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the VENDOR (e.g. a part that has non-functional label markings added would be permitted, but a part that has device-specific mounting holes added would be prohibited), and
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2010 FRC materials/parts use rules.
<R34> Parts custom-made for FIRST and provided to FRC teams in the Kit Of Parts for previous FRC competitions (e.g. 2006 FRC transmissions, custom-made motor couplers, custom sensor strips, FRC CMUcam II modules, etc.) may be used if the part is still functionally equivalent to the original condition and:
A. The part is now generally available as a COTS item from an accessible source, or
B. All information required to fabricate the part (e.g. complete drawings, materials list, Gerber Files where appropriate, etc.) is openly available, such that any team could fabricate the part (or have it fabricated for them).
Otherwise, such parts are prohibited from use in the 2010 competition.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

so....if you can't get the transmission from Globe, and they did not publish all the specs to build one, you can't use it?

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Al & Jim,

I understand. I just wanted to point out <R33>, which I think is a new addition for this year, and opens up the use of many older KOP items.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Jim,
This is complicated. Globe allows you to custom order a motor and transmission assembled. They had specific parts in the past that combined a motor and transmission but sold under a specific part number. Our FRC Globes may have been one of those. (I have not researched the Globe site so bear with me.) Globe has consequently changed their numbering to some extent although the parts remain the same. (The motors we use for dish feedhorn movement comes under this category as I can no longer order the number we have used for years but I can find the same motor/transmission under a different part number.) So under the first sentence of the rule, a transmission from a previous year could have been a COTS item and if you didn't modify it other than to remove it from the motor than it would be legal. Since I have not checked the actual Globe listings (although I seem to remember once checking the FRC part on the Globe site and it was a valid part) I cannot tell if this part were in fact specifically made for FRC which would then make it legal under R34 if left in an unmodified state.
Are you thoroughly confused now?
Dad,
This rule did exist in 2009 in a slightly different form and as R32 and does allow a wider use of previous year's parts.

Re: Use of Globe Motor from 2009 KOP?
 

Thank you all for your contributions to this question. We did succeed in separating the gearbox and the motor. For those who would like to know how, here are the steps we took:
1- Separate the outside cover by knocking out the three roll pins.
2- Pull off the housing by spinning and twisting.
3- Undo the two top torques.
4- Pull the motor assembly apart.
5- Put the housing in a vice and then knock out the shaft so that the motor assembly is separated from its insides.
6- The motor is now separated from the gearbox, you're on your own from here.

Thanks again for all the help,

ASTECHZ 2994 :)