Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Is anyone else using the Andymark Planetary Transmissions for drive or anything? Does anyone have any comments or thoughts from experience with them?

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Sorry, we're using Banebots. We looked at using AM Planetaries but decided Banebots were the way to go. I currently don't know the technical reasons why.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

We are using Both of Andy's Planets.

We are using a CIM with his GEM Planet and we love it. Very sturdy construction and more reliable in my opinion than banebots IMO. Our last few tries have been horrible, but I do like the promise of the p60's

We are also using his Planet for the FP in our drivetrain.

Team 1323 is very happy with AM's products.

-RC

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

The banebots transmissions we've used have been junk. I don't know about the P60, which is supposed to be better, but I would never choose a banebots planetary over an AM Planetary.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

AM Planetary is a really useful gearbox for the drivetrain or any kid of FP/CIM ganging. I haven't heard of one failing, nor has 1714 / 2791 ever had any problems with them.

In general, if it's an AM product, it's reliable.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Yea I agree with the rest of the comments, the AM planetary is a great transmission especially for the FP. Although we did have a bit of trouble putting on the pinion gear.

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Banebots have gone a long way to improving their planetary transmission (P80) in terms of durability and design since their initial introduction introduction in the KOP several years ago. They responded with changing the design based on team feedback, adding a thicker and hardened steel output plate, tie rods to hold the end plates tight and square, centering bosses on the end plates for the ring gear, and steel internal gears. We have used them consistently with no failures, and will continue this season as well. That coupled with their lower cost, and if utilized within their design limits, they will do a good job. :)

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

We're using an A-M GEM500 planetary with a CIM for the first time this season - we expect good results. Per Andy-Mark, the GEM's will be back in stock tomorrow. If you are only asking about the "A-M Planetary" (a separate product from the GEM) because the GEM planetary is not in stock, just wait until tomorrow and check their site.

The Banebots P60's are very reliable. Lightweight. Compact. We used 3 of them on last year's robot with zero failures of any kind. We'll be using two more again this year.

We've actually never had any major problems with Banebots since we started using them in 2006. The P60's are definitely a big step up from the previous designs. The only caveat is some pretty significant lead time in getting them built and delivered. I suspect increased demand due to less motor diversity in the kit.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Banebots planetary is definetly super reliable. my team has reused the same 4 gearboxes for drivetrain on our robot for 3 years running. not once have we experienced any problem. People just have a bias against banebots because of a bad gearbox along time ago(maybe not that long). But people who think banebots have zero quality really are just close minded to the new gearboxes that they have made.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

We had some Banebots planetary transmissions to drive our robot in the 2007 season, but then they failed in the elimination rounds at the Wisconsin Regional. We mounted some Fischer Price motors into the P60's last year and didn't have any problems with them. From what I've heard and read, Banebots has done a good job of improving their transmissions and listening to feedback. We are using one Banebots P60 gearbox on this year's robot, one AndyMark Double Doozy, two toughboxes, and one nano toughbox as of right now.

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we're using what I assume are the andymark planetarys (the '07 KOP ones)

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The 2007 KOP gearbox was a Banebots 56mm gearbox (since discontinued and replaced by the P80)

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Could anyone tell me how to mount a FP motor to the this kind of gearbox? I'm not sure if we're allowed to yank the gear off, and if so, how?

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Personally I'd buy the Planet with the motor already attached:

http://andymark.biz/am-0347.html

Then I'd buy this to make swaps easier:

http://andymark.biz/am-0348.html

-RC

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Which gearbox are you refereing to? If you are talking about the AM Planetary Gearbox (http://www.andymark.biz/am-0002.html),then yes you have to remove the existing gear and press the new gear that comes with the planetary on to the shaft of the motor. Unless you buy the ones that are pretty much ready to go like RC pointed out.

We always use an Arbor Press to do this, but you must be very careful no to bend the shaft of the motor. For more info try these threads:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ight=FP+pinion

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...moving+FP+gear

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Yeah, that's the one, but to my knowledge it did not come with a new gear.
:S As we are a rookie team we weren't aware of this.
I do not believe our school has an arbor press either.

Is it a viable option to drill out the mounting pate to a diameter that would accept the gear?

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Getting the pinion off a FP is actually pretty simple if you're willing to stoop to the level of pure brute force.

The trick is that the pinion material is actually relatively soft and deformable. So what you want to do is squish the pinion by grabbing it in a vise, arbor press, etc. You just squish the pinion from one direction, then turn it 90 degrees and squish it from the other. This deforms the hole in the pinion enough to make it MUCH easier to remove. You can tell if you're doing it right by looking at the shaft-pinion interface. If you're deforming the pinion, you'll see a small gap develop there.

Note, you must be extremely careful that you're only crushing the pinion and not some part of your motor's frame. Also, this isn't the nicest way in the world to use a vise, so try to pick one that you don't care as much about. Finally, this technique works much better with the 15-tooth pinion than the 19-tooth.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

The problem is not to make the gear fit through the hole, the planetary is designed to work with the 15 tooth 32 pitch pinion and it will not work with anything else (others would not mesh properly with the planet gears).It should have come with the Planetaries, if it didn't I would try to contact AndyMark and ask them about it. The website lists it as part of the hardware.

http://store.andymark.biz/am-0002.html

If you do not have an Arbor Press, your best bet is to order the mounting plates w/ motor that are ready to be installed. Our team has gotten away with using a vice to press the gear onto the shaft at the events but I do not recommend it.

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Would it be in any way acceptable to bore the planetary mounting cap larger?
We believe this would be the easiest way as it would allow for easy motor replacement in the event of failure, and would be the most economical.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

bane bots trans. have cost us too many matches for me to EVER trust them again...

ANDY MARK is the way to go....

AM parts are all high quality, easy to use, and the stand behind their product 100%

wish I could say that about bane bots...... I cant....

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

I would not recommend making any holes in the gearbox or motor mounting plate. This will allow debris to enter the gearbox and do bad things to it.

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According to one of our mentors/post-secondary students, there was a shipping error resulting in some teams actually ending up with a 15-tooth pinion on the FP motor, which I think might be the case as it seems to mesh properly with the AM planetary. the normal stock 19-tooth wouldn't do that would it?
If this is the case, would that mean we just need to yank the gear off (with a neighbouring team's arbor press), install the back plate then re-install it?

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The Planetary comes with the proper gear to install on the FP output shaft. Just to be safe, I would always use that.

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As stated above, we appear not to have received said gear.

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We're using the planetaries in a funky way, 2 FP's, going into 2 planetaries going into a toughbox. This will operate our kicker.

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wow, got enough torque there dude?

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Steve, were you around during the whole plate-bending-in-half experience that went on with the banebots transmissions (I believe it was in '07)?

In a competition like FIRST where you pay thousands of dollars to enter, and then have 12 matches total during a regional, a single component failure is a major major thing for most teams.

A large number of the banebots transmissions failed, some catastrophically. I can't imagine the cost of that if your translated that into lost design, engineering and playing time for all those many many teams that used the gearboxes in the KOP.

On top of that, Banebots compounded the issue with very poor customer service.

Banebots may be a very good company now, but once you've been severely burned by a company's components, there are very few people who would go back and try them again just to see if they've improved.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=banebots+fail
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=banebots+fail
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...=banebots+fail

I harbor no ill will towards banebots.... but will be a long long time before I ever consider another one of their products.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

This year our team has decided to go with the andy mark transmissions yet again, and they're doing great!

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That isn't a funky way. If you look at the torque curves and free speeds, a fisherprice through an AM planetary gearbox ends up being nearly the equivalent of a CIM. Just don't try to run it slowly. Fishes don't like going slowly.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Sound like you harbor a lot of ill will towards them and I remember them busting their buts and spending a fortune in customer service when that first problem happened.

I haven't used their products since that initial problem but then again I live 40 miles from AndyMark and I love their products.

Nobody is perfect, not everyone gets it right the first time. Ask somebody about the problems with the first AM planetary boxes, broken omni wheels and those first 6" mech wheels. But they learned from their mistakes and these products have evolved into superior products.

I get a bit frustrated when companies that have worked hard to make our jobs easier and have spent their hard earned money to support us continue to be bashed years after problems occurred. I still cringe when people bash Festo for the valve problems from a few years back even when I know that many of these problems were because of improper use. Lucky they still continue to donate these products.

Sorry about the tenor of this post but these thoughts have been brewing in me for a while.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Well ratio wise, it makes sense, but visually it looks funny having 2 motors go into 3 transmissions.

And yes we're running pretty much full speed.

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I can certainly understand where you're coming from - I work for Ford and we've long been a victim of perception rather than actual performance.

However, I can assure you that I harbor no bad sentiment against the Banebot folks. It's simple engineering risk vs. reward. The one time our team went with the banebots, we ended up with a catastrophic failure and had to replace it on short notice. That's never happened with Andymark - therefore we stick with Andymark and don't even consider banebots.

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We have used components from both companies, and are selective in choosing them to fit the various applications on our robots. We have had problems with these components (from both suppliers), and have designed around these problems to improve them. That is what testing is all about, and sometimes problems do not surface until you're in the real life application. These are important lessons for our students to learn, and we shouldn't discount any component out of hand simply because we had a bad experience with them. There is a tremendous difference in design from the initial CIM/Banebot transmissions and the P80 transmissions they offer now. I should also add that I really like the idea of a single piece output shaft on the AndyMark planetary transmission for a more trouble free design (as A/M advertises). That component design difference might be the tipping point for us to choose an A/M transmission over a Banebot for a certain application. Maybe next year, if we can afford the difference in cost. :)

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

There might be varying definitions of "customer service".

The first customer was FIRST. The BaneBots gearbox provided in the Kit of Parts that year was underengineered for the task. A couple of engineers having FRC experience commented on the apparent weakness of the carrier plate. Their concerns were dismissed. Strike One (though this was not widely seen).

The next customer was the teams. Many of the gearboxes failed under conditions that were not unreasonable for the application. BaneBots initially blamed the teams for abusing them. Strike Two.

Eventually the problem became too widespread to ignore, and BaneBots did spend a lot of money producing and distributing replacement hardened carrier plates for every gearbox originally in the Kits. Most worked well, but the pins on some of them fit loosely in the plate and were prone to falling out. Foul Ball at best; Strike Three for some teams.

Most teams didn't have the trouble to begin with, or received replacement parts that worked fine. Their perception was of a company that responded to problems. Base hit, or maybe Walk.

BaneBots didn't strike out across the board that year, but it was close enough that the teams who got stung are still reluctant to go back to them.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

We used the GEM500 on our drives in 2009. We had one on each side, driven by a single CIM.

No problems at all on either robot (comp and prototype). Comp robot is still running well and we have switched to tread wheels.

Also, as an FYI, we were one of the first teams to use the GEMs, so we gave two of the used ones back to AndyMark, so they can take them apart and evaluate the design and manufacture after a full season of work to see if any improvements are needed. Continuous Improvement.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Whenever I can I like to buy things that were made here in the US.

Who knows where Banebots makes their transmissions? Based on the hardware, it's not the US (for all but their new premium ones. Supposedly those are made in the US).

I know where AndyMark products come from. I like that our money supports an American company which contracts work to American manufacturers. I also like that Andy and company are as close as possible to the "end of the chain" so to speak. They know what we're using their products for and how we're using them. As a result they constantly make improvements to better suit our needs.

AndyMark has great customer service and their parts are a great value. That's why you'll always find a boatload of their products on our robots and that's why we'll never even give another supplier like BaneBots a chance.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

Question about the fisher-price gearboxes.

Are the old style allowed if they were never used on the robot, or since they are tech not available in the same "style" would they be considered illegal? We have been talking about this and can't come up with a consensus.

Re: Andymark Planetary Transmission...
 

I believe it is allowed.

<R33> COTS items from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS items that are no longer commercially available may be used under the following conditions:
A. The item must be functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the VENDOR (e.g. a part that has non-functional label markings added would be permitted, but a part that has device-specific mounting holes added would be prohibited), and
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2010 FRC materials/parts use rules.