Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Amidst all the talk of teasers, kickers and programming I see very minimal discussion about the role of the human player in this years game. While it's true that unlike last year's game the human player cannot win you games they most certainly can lose you games. Especially if they are given the task of handling the trident. From the looks of it you don't have to be athletic like you had to be last year but you need to be efficient and cool under pressure to do that job well.
It amazed me last year how grossly unprepared so many teams were regarding their human players last year with poorly trained human players who had no ideas about the rules of the game and what to do.
I can already visualize the worst case scenario where the human player fumbles the ball out of the trident and has to chase it down with a back log of balls rapidly piling up. Out of panic they simply grab the balls and finger roll it into the ball return like George Gervin in order to get the job done. I would not be surprised to witness this happening once or twice in the first week of regionals.
I impore teams that after you have built your humps and towers to take the time to build your human player a trident so they can get used to handling it but just as importantly make sure they read and understand the rules of the game as well.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

The biggest thing this year - Do NOT drop the ball! If it rolls away from you, you will get a penalty for exiting the area to chase it down. Or if you wait for someone else to get it back to you, you will start to get DOGMA penalties for slow return - one penalty every 2 seconds after you hit the time limit.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

In response to the post above, I would think that it'd be worth it for the players to just jog the ball over to the trident player.

If the trident player has the trident, and the side players throw the balls to the trident player, then he/she will have to catch with one hand. I know that whoever our human player is will have to make that catch, but I don't think it's worth it to possibly lose control of a ball.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

For any coaches weary of choosing human players this year because you're worried they might lose their cool mid-game, a good indicator of someones ability to keep focused is their attitude while playing video games. I know people who get completely frustrated when they're behind, almost to a point when they're ready to start swinging; these people would definitely NOT be a good choice for a human player this year.

My team holds a video game night every once in while (when we're not super busy of course :p), and I believe events like this can be used to asses peoples attitude under pressure. Especially to first year teams who haven't yet been behind the glass before, sometimes it does get extremely frustrating; plan for it. :)

"This year, a perfect human player score is 0"

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I agree with all the comments above.

Recap:
Build a trident and practice

Walk/run the ball to the middle player, DO NOT THROW

All human players should be calm and focused

Human players should manage the ball and the coach should manage the drivers

Practice, practice, practice

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

i agree to... everyone is focusing on the driving this year... but if you don't have the human player who knows the rules and has practiced for awhile... your just not going to cut it in the regional.

i know i have been practicing with our human player during spare time... just basically throwing the ball to him to place on the trident. But i strongly recommend taking one night and just practicing.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Ding, ding,ding. This will cause teams to lose many matches this year.

So the question will be: When the human player drops the ball and it rolls outside of the alliance station do you chase it (and get a penalty) or hope that enough balls come through the goal to keep the DOGMA from penalizing you too much?

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

The biggest disappointment I have about this year's game is the lack of opportunity for the HP to get involved directly in scoring this year (or for any year in fact).
We havent even bothered making a trident for this year and dont plan to.
We got enough issues to deal with.:ahh:

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Luckily, the HP's role this year isn't one that requires much thought if they have read the rules. Hopefully everyone on your team has.

You'll either be running the ball to the guy with the trident or you'll be using the trident to snag a ball on the return. Do it as soon as you get the ball. Don't game the timer.

Pretty simple if human players are members of a well prepared team.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

This isnt just about the human players either.
It is up to the rest of the aliance to communicate, and score enough balls to rack up the score, but not too many that the human player is overwhelmed.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I agree that we all have issues to deal with, and one of them is to build a trident and practice the ball exchange. Granted the Human Player is less of a factor this year, BUT don't let he/she lose the game for you if you didn't practice the move.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Who has built a trident? The ones we built (following the drawings) are very snug over the ball. It almost seems like the best technique has been to put the ball on the ground and stab it with the trident. Has any one else found this to be the case?

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Our kids built one last weekend.

Ours is snug on the ball as well.
It's made from PVC pipe so it's kind of heavy. I hope the competition one isn't as heavy.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

We've built it......and broke it, twice. I'd advise against trying to catch the ball in mid air with the trident :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

We had our trident built the first week :) Having handled it myself a bit, it really isn't that difficult to get up to speed on it quickly.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I'll be sure to do it myself.;)

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

We have built the trident based on the specs. Yes we have found the ball to be a snug fit. Yes we have found some people that say it is heavy, but it is the same as competition.

My recommendation is to place the ball into the trident, do not try to catch a thrown ball. The human player picking the ball up from the goal should WALK THE BALL TO THE TRIDENT PLAYER. DO NOT THROW!!

Human players need to be calm and cool. Don't place the wackiest, craziest students on this task. The human players need to work well under pressure and not drop the ball (literally).

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Remember, All people behind the driver's station are allowed to handle the balls once they are out of the Goal and before they are re-introduced to the field via the trident. In the case of a build up of balls, this would be a good time for a Coach or other Free Drive team member to step in and make a relay chain of sorts to get the balls from the Goal to the player with the trident as quickly and as accurately as possible..

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Yes, it is a tight fit. The ball tends to pop out of it. Stabbing it is a good idea. We will give that a try.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I feel the first several weeks of matches there will not be that much scoring, so the Human Players will be standing more then moving the ball. BUT...they must be ready to move quickly and precisely and not fumble the ball.

We have 11 seconds to move the ball from the goal to the ball delivery system, practice that move with your human players.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

A pretty ingenious strategy to consider. Some sort of chain would really help. Have one or two people in between the person at the goal and the Human Play. It's great that FIRST allows the mentors to handle the ball this year, because some teams may not utilize their coaches as much as others, so this gives them a chance to assist the alliance.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

i'd say go for both. take the penalty to go get the ball and put it back in to prevent more penalties adding up, rather than having the penalty add every 2 seconds. then go dominate the field.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Does anyone know where I can find all the rules that involve the human player?

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

More specifically, <G15> - <G17> in Section 7.3.4.3 and <G48> - <G52> in Section 7.3.6 in the Game Manual.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

While I agree that throwing isn't a good idea, our team has found it quite easy to actually catch the balls with the trident when thrown. After you get the hang of it it's not that bad, especially if you train your human player. Of course people are appalled and faint on the spot at the thought of this.

I like the floor-stab idea though, and I think the safest bet will probably be to roll the ball to the human player, who stops it with his foot by stepping on it, and then stabs it with the trident. The bucket-brigade idea sounds great too for desperate times.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Our team has had a couple people practice. We all agree that one of the simplest and easiest ways is to have one of the corner human players pick up the ball, and then the middle HP sticks out the trident to the corner HP, and then that corner HP sticks it in the trident. It seems to work quite efficiently.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

Has anyone else considered handling two balls at once?

I noticed there wasn't a rule against it.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

You'd better re-read the rules on POSSESSION ;)

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I think he is talking about handling two balls as a human player.

And if not, you better look up the rules!:p

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I heard there was a rule saying that when you returned the balls with the trident, that you must pull down the trident strait and not in a curve. Is this a real rule and if it is where can i find where it says that?

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

There is no such rule. It might be a recommendation from someone, because the balls may be firmly held by the trident, and wouldn't be released if there is no downward motion.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I played with the trident on our ball return a bit before ship and it was a pretty enlightening experience, if not a bit fun. For new human players the trident is going to be a bit awkward to wield especially if you're on the smaller/shorter side. After about 10 minutes of playing with it our prospective Human Players and Myself seems to be pretty handy with it.

One thing we did notice though is that the ball return was pretty forgiving. We didn't miss getting ball in more than one or two times and as long as you place one of the posts in the center between the two rails it seems like you'll be about 99% accurate. Also, I found that the most effective way for me to use the trident was to place the ball onto the return and pull the trident out in an arcing motion (Forward arc towards the field). This gives the ball a little push down the return so that it'll go faster and it also reduces the risk of having it bounce a bit, which can happen when you pull the trident out very fast and straight down.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

GTR is running pretty smoothly all things considered but there were things I saw today that made me have to go back to this thread again.
I witnessed some of the most blatantly inexcusable mistakes I have ever seen teams make in the driver stations in all my years in FIRST that left me completely flabbergasted.
*I witnessed a human player just standing there with a ball in the trident and wait and stare for seconds like they wanted to see the light turn on.
* I witnessed countless number of foot faults where kids not only stepped out of the station but were never in it in the first place! A whole drives team was outside the box!
*But the one that took the cake was the human player who stood over by the judges area and simply watched the match while his team participated. He was so far over he was out of the referee's line of vision (who was too busy watching the field to notice some kid standing behind him who should have been in the driver's station) and didn't incur penalties. When I approached him after the match and asked him if he realized that he may have incurred a whole lot of penalty points for his alliance he said he had no idea he was supposed to be in the driver's station.

Sadly this isn't an isolated incident as I have seen time and again teams do things that make me wonder if the only understanding of what they had too do came from simply watching the game animation.
Over the years I have gone to many events and have witnessed actions in the stations that I can merely label as shameful to be blunt.
It's one thing to build a mediocre to poor robot due to lack of funds and resources but it's a whole other thing to come to the events woefully unprepared because teams cannot be bothered to click a link and read the manual.
I know people love to dismiss the behaviors of these teams and say "it's not about the robot and "winning doesn't matter" but considering the investment and time, effort and money that other teams have also put into this what they are doing is practically downright criminal.
When you sign up for an event you are obligated to put forth your best effort not just simply for your students and mentors but for the other teams at the event who are forced to work along side you in matches. That these teams come so blatantly unprepared to compete doing the simplest things like knowing where to stand in the driver's station is an insult to the hard work they have done and should not be tolerated plain and simple.
Reading and understanding the rules should be a requirement you do before you hit the field not a strategic advantage of well rounded teams that know what they're doing!

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

As stated at the beginning, the human player does have a huge impact not on winning a match, but on losing a match. Unfortunately during one of our matches our human players were trying to put the ball back into play and it fell and hit our driver’s hand which then hit the keyboard killing our robot. We lost that match in part because it was 2 on 3 after our robot got shut off. Although it’s no one’s fault really, it is just disappointing to lose a match because of a silly error that was probably caused by rushing. I was not involved in this but I was a human player and I never practiced. The only thing I made sure to do was stay calm and move deliberately but cautiously. If you try to quickly return the ball you will mess up more often than if you take an extra second or two and make sure not to drop it.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

As one of two HPs for our team, I've found that the big difference in matches in terms of behind the DS is awareness of the trident player. In both of the regionals I've been to, the dominant strategy between human players was to have the trident player ready, holding the trident out to the goal when a ball came in, and the goal player just stuffing the ball into the trident. The return times were excellent with this method, I don't think a single ball was dropped in the matches I played in. The trident player also had that extra time to be careful when loading the return ramp.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

One thing I have noticed is that humans with the trident are putting the ball in way too hard. It is a lot safer to put it in gently and calmly and unless your 469, there is no real rush. 11 seconds is plenty of time as long as you pay attention. Also, don't watch the game and be careful with teams that say they are good with the trident because that is not always 100% true.

Re: Have You Trained Your Human Player Today?
 

I was an human player this year and last year, and I have found one thing to be for sure: That many people get lazy and dont completely have their head in the game this year! Yes, after last year human player is a cake walk, but that is no reason to:

A. Not Read the Rules

B. Not Pay Attention During the Game

C. Make a stupid decision and rack up DOGMA POINTS for your Alliance!

Anyone who has worked with me knows that I am stalwart on having no penalties. No throwing the ball. No throwing the ball. And above all, DONT THROW THE BALL! During build season at our local field donor, Sonic Tools, we found that the most efficient way to return the balls to the field is for the center player with the trident to, extend the trident, have the outer players gently and calmly push the ball into the trident, and then lift it up onto the ball return. Throwing does not work. The tridents that I have come across have a very tight fit around the ball, allowing for no room topick it off the floor or catch it in midair. I hate to opinionate this heavily, but I feel it is necessary, it would be horrible for any team and alliance to recieve penalties over something so simple.