Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Dear Dean Kamen,Woodie Flowers and FIRST company. We the Teams going to Washington DC. and Baltimore need a waver.

No shipping dead line!!!!!!!! No Robots in crates!!!!! Extended build season!!!!
We the TEAMS in the area and TEAMS coming into the area will bring the ROBOTS to the events!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help support this cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Email FRIST, call FRIST talk to the MEDIA,
call your pollictical reps. Grab your snow shovel and come are way!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless All
Mentor Mac
Team 686
Thomas McCubbin
Mt.Airy Maryland

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I would suggest that you send something directly to them, very few FIRST employees are on ChiefDelphi. And I know that it must be very frustrating to be dealing with weeks of school closings, but if you really would like to get some sort of extension don't seem so angry. Yes you are angry, but that doesn't get anywhere!

Good luck!

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

It is my understanding that there is discussion going on at FIRST HQ about Snowmageddon. Be patient. Can I see them giving us an extension? Yes, as they have done so in the past for similar incidents. Can I see them extending right to competition day? No.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I see no reason for teams going to Washington DC. and Baltimore to need a waiver. I can see a reason for teams coming from Washington DC. and Baltimore to need one, though.

Good luck getting it.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

As much as I think there needs to be an extensiondue to the snow issue in the mid Atlantic. Askng that robots going to those regionals get a pass is not the best way to go about it. As I know teams from other areas who have not had to deal with mother nature will be attending so why is it fair that they get untill the regional to work on there bot? And teams from this area going to other regionals would not get extra time.

I do hope to see an official email or statement from FIRST about this in the next few days.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

No I'm not angry. I think it's kind of funny. You need to live in the area. I want the leader ship, to think out of the box. Yes out of the crate. Teams might not get trucks to pick up their robots. Can you get the picture? No one can move. YES YES YES I'm contacting FIRST! If they don't bend you could see two events with a hand full of TEAMS instead of 60 TEAMS.Do you see?


Be safe, and have a good day. Thomas McCubbin 301-831-0407

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

It might help to do an edit and clean up your spelling, perhaps starting with the word, FIRST.

Just about everyone that is reading CD is aware of the terrible storms that have hit the mid-Atlantic states, but we can't do anything about your request. If you do follow the wise advice offered here to contact FIRST directly - I would suggest that you do so in a calm manner, stating how many days your team has missed thus far, and how many more are being projected. It is always good to present your case in a manner that reflects well on your team. For example, please cut way back on those exclamation points. They won't serve much of a purpose, used as they are.

Jane

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

i agree

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

It will be very interesting to see how they handle that. Trying to give specific teams or specific areas extra season build time opens a can of worms.

Midwest and northern region teams have to deal with this on a regular basis. Yes, we have better snow removal equipment and are more used to it, but frankly we lose a lot of build time each year because the roads aren't good enough for students to drive, snowdays are called at least a couple times during the build season, and we can't get into the schools either.

Yes, we're better at moving the snow - but only on major throughfares like freeways. It's a regular occurence for the country crews to announce they aren't going to clear the side-roads and back roads where us rural folks live until well after the storm is done.

Don't get me wrong. The eastern teams this year have a raw deal with the weather. I'm just not sure how you do an equitable distribution if you were to give additional time.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

The only precedent for this was 2 day extension back in 2003 when a blizzard crippled the Northeast the 2 days before ship so FEDEX wouldn't pick up the crates. They extended the ship deadline by 48hrs, which was all that could be done because of the proximity of week one regionals. I would expect that is the best they could do if anything. Not sure they will though because the storm isn't butting up against the ship deadline.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Even when we have a snow day, some of my team still manage to make it to the shop...me included :rolleyes:

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

There are a great many teams that have hardships come their way. Snow is just snow. Teams have had to work on shorter deadlines in the past years. Why should this one be different?

In the real world a deadline is just that. Make it or else. Coming from the not so Great White North (this year) I have to ask what's the problem?

Wouldn't it be nice if we all lived in a perfect environment with all of the tools, material and help that we need with no deadlines? But then again, it wouldn't be FIRST!

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I know it has happened in the past. Extensions that is. So go through the right channels and pray.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Some teams shops are in schools. When there is no school or schools close early or schools cancel after school activities that includes Robotics Teams. Which means shops are closed.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

In my personal, biased by lack of snow opinion...

Don't waste your time trying to get an extension with such little build time left. Either FIRST will do it or they won't, but you've got too little time to be campaigning and worrying.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Baltimore and DC are in states of emergency and while not enforceable it is actually illegal to be out driving in some areas at the moment. Regardless of fairness it is highly likely that the shipping trucks won't be able to get to some of the teams pick up points. FIRST may have its hand forced into allowing teams extra time.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

In the meantime, the teams should continue to do what they can do in preparation for the competition(s). It would also benefit the teams to document their progress this season, which would include the challenges that the weather has presented. Pictures say a thousand words and would be a nice addition to the pit 'decor' in the form of a scrapbook, framed photo section, bulletin board. They could also be part of the team website, blog, etc. Make use of the challenge and in how the team is meeting it.

Snowmageddon will become a part of the teams' histories and will be talked about for years to come.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

At the present . . .

(all of those who are struggling with the deadline and praying for an extension)

. . . can only shovel (and wait)

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Shipping the robot is not due for 2 weeks ... hence, FIRST is not 'forced' to do anything.

I'd suggest you take Janes' advice and try and figure out how to use this time wisely.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Who knows, you guys can be in your shops in a couple of days, and you still have 2 weeks until ship.

Just another challenge, will you overcome it or just complain?

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

The teams complaining about losing time should have thought of this last night or the day before and either put in even more hours during those days or moved their robots and tools they need to someone's garage. It is as simple as that.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Assuming teams own their robots and tools, it could maybe seem as simple as that.
Do all teams own their robots and tools? Do all teams pay for their robots and tools? It's easy to say what teams should and should not do. It's not so easy to actually be the teams that are dealing with a difficult situation and have to contend with what they can and cannot do.

Jane

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I understand your simplistic perspective but your statement does seem a little harsh. Please consider that some of these teams were not aware of the consequences of a snow storm like this.

Give us a break.
 

It isn't FIRST's fault, or problem, that states and localities are completely unprepared for normal Winter weather. It's snow. What's the big deal? We routinely have 3-5 snow days in build season, but I don't think I have ever seen a team north of Delaware truly complain about it.

Posting something like this (terrible spelling, grammar, punctuation) as a Mentor :eek: in a public forum is very unprofessional and doesn't do anything for your case or your team.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

If I were you I would waste my time. If I remember right about 6 to 8 years ago (that's when my son was still in high school) we in New England had 1 or 2 snow storms just about every week of build season. I do not remember how long the extension was but it was not very long only 1 to a few days. So go for it do you do what ever you got to do. Good luck hope it works out for you.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

20+ inches of snow doesn't sound like a ton up north, but go down south and you have some major problems. I agree with Akash, teams should have been ready and even if they took a few items home or done extra stuff it should have been done. Yes, it is unfortunate that this is happening, but it isn't like 2 feet of snow just showed up outside. Sorry if it might seem harsh, but as was said earlier, life isn't perfect and if it was then that isn't FIRST.

I think you guys should all get your team shirts to say, "Got snow?". ;)

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Agreed Brendan. It was not unplanned or uncalled for weather. It was also not news that these states would be inadequately prepared for weather like this because they do not budget for snowplows/salters and what have you.

It was not a harsh statement, it was more about questioning the logic of teams who sit idle when they know what is coming. The statement about not knowing the consequences of a snowstorm this late in the build is highly questionable.

Jane- teams who do not "own" the robots/tools still had time to plan things out with their school/sponsor. As I stated, this was not uncalled-for weather.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

The latest entry in "Bill's Blog" addresses the weather issues:

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...last-week.html

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I agree you can not predict the weather. Here in Connecticut we were supposed get the biggest storm in years today. Starting early morning around 3am to 6am with 12 inches of snow. Just about every school in the state was closed for the day. It it now 5pm I can clean my driveway with a broom. There was no reason to cancel school in my town today.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Akash, and Brendan, I have no advice on what teams should or should not have done given the cards they have been dealt. What works for your team may not work for others.

Schools in the Baltimore area were closed for a day or 2 days, last week. That was 3 storms ago and 4 " ago. They started Friday by opening late in some areas, then closing early due to a storm that evolved and grew. That was 2 storms and 30 " ago. They have not been back to school since. This storm (which it appears NJ is also experiencing) will be dumping another 10-20" depending. Schools have been canceled until at least early next week. I am hard pressed to imagine anyone who was wise enough to envision how this would unfold the past week. The Baltimore area, as well as much of the Mid-Atlantic is paralyzed and in a state of emergency. There are building collapsing, thousands without power (some since last Friday) and medical emergencies everywhere with no way to reach people.

Sometimes compassion and listening (and there are lots who need to vent and this forum allows for that within limits) is better than offering advice.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I think you missed Jane's post. Teams can't just decide to move tools and parts to someone's home. They may belong to the school. They may belong to a sponsor. They may not be able to do anything.

Still, this talk of an extension is silly. The only reason the extension was granted in 2003 was because FedEx was not going to be able to pick up crates on ship day. There's a difference between losing time 2 weeks before ship and an entire region being shut down for 2 days ON ship day.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Excuse my misinterpretation :o


I also agree with other posts on this thread:

that the exclamatory beginning was highly unprofessional.

However it is true that some teams may be unable to do NOTHING at all due to the fact that most of their equipment does not belong to them. It is beyond me on what they can do. (I don't count complaining as an option)

P.S. Then . . . let it snow.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Agreed. I think this plays in the decision not to give an extension. Basically, there is no fair way to do it. If you give a region (like the 'east coast') an extra week, there will be teams in the midwest that missed a couple of days calling foul. Also, there are some teams that will receive the extension that did not miss any days so they will greatly benefit. A blanket extension for all FIRST teams won't really make things 'more fair' as everyone would be better off. So, if there is no good way to make things perfectly fair, why try to make things fair? I would rather have mother nature be the determinant of who wins/loses rather than FIRST.

I also would be wary of setting a precedent if I were FIRST. What happens next year if there is a huge lake effect snow storm that only affects Milwaukee? Or a specific team's build site loses power for a week? Where do you draw the line? I think the answer is never putting the line down in the first place.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

If, for some reason, you physically cannot get to your robot to crate it or bag it before the deadline, then talk to FIRST directly. Don't come here to get anything official done; CD is unofficial. You still have over a week to get your paths cleared to get in to the robot work areas. If you can crate it or bag it, and FedEx or your shipper can't get to your shop, then contact FIRST for directions. They can work with you. The extension in 2003 wasn't quite enough time for some teams to dig out their shops, IIRC.

The best teams at the D.C., Chesapeake, and Virginia regionals (and any other regionals affected) will be the ones who got hit hard by the storm and planned and prepared to build a robot in a short amount of time, instead of complaining and trying to start petitions to FIRST to get an extension to the ship that runs clear to the regional. (Note: this does not count if you're from out of the affected region...)

[offtopic]By the way, I hear Vancouver needs more snow. Can't hurt for them to see if they can get some fresh stuff sent over from the mid-Atlantic...:p[/offtopic]

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

When I was in high school there was a year we lost two weeks of build season due to a massive ice storm. We were sponsored by the local public service company and most of our engineers were linemen. They were out taking care of power lines and other problems. Somehow we still managed to pull it together and ship a working robot on time. It can be done. Rally your team and go.

Also, while I understand your frustration with your current situation there are proper channels for dealing with this. In situations like this it is best to contact FIRST directly. Ranting on Chief Delphi rarely obtains the results you're looking for.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Well good news for teams building two robots, you can scrap the second robot effort and focus on your "practice" robot for competition...

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I'll still go ahead and try to post suggestions on what to do if you still can't get to your robot and don't think you will for the rest of the week.

Plan for what you WILL be able to finish on the robot. What changes might you have to make once you do get to the robot? What is worth changing? What is worth finishing? Can you compensate for anything? Can you finish anything during the practice day or even Friday of the competition?

Ok, so you may have missed your chance to plan for the snowdays, but you can plan ahead now for whatever time you have left.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Folks,

[SOAPBOX]
Take some chill pills. :)

1) When I read the OP's post I was a little disappointed with the speeling mistakes, but I was able to discern that he was attempting to strike a comical tone, not an angry tone, and that he was not attempting to create a carefully crafted request. When you see CAPITALIZED letters or lots of !!!!!!!, please remember that not everyone interprets them the way you do. The world is a diverse place.

2) To everyone who suggested that folks in the mid-Atlantic should have planned for something as obvious as snow, well I'm pretty sure most did. However, this is a once in a hundred years event (actually the worst since records have been kept here, but why quibble). How many of you folks tossing rocks have plans that anticipate that sort of extremely unusual disruption?

3) As other folks have implied, when school-based teams with workshops in their schools are forbidden from entering the schools, who among the rock-throwers would like to guarantee to protect the careers and assets of the faculty and mentors if they encouraged students to travel on hazardous roads to reach the school, and then let them into it? Never mind asking who could undo a serious accident should one happen?

So - Let's take a step back, re-read that original post with our senses of humor turned up as high as they will go, and then ask if the Mid-Atlantic teams (or other folks in a bind) need any help we can supply.

I suspect that offering to publish solutions to basic kit-bot level problems (so that any team in a bind can assemble a useful robot before the shipping date), or offering to help design or build/assemble an extra copy of a "standard" mechanism (bumpers?) for a team that won't have time to build their own, will earn a team or person more brownie points than anything I have read so far in this thread."

"No robot [or team] left behind"
[/SOAPBOX]

Find the big picture...
Blake

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Please send some snow on over to SE Michigan, our plows could use the work!

As a few others have said, at this point, it's too late to have planned for anything. I also understand the situations of teams who work out of their schools or sponsor's workshops - historically for our team, if the school is closed because of the weather, we couldn't get in. It's also very hard to predict and plan for school closings.

At this point, there's not a lot you can do to the robot if you're cut off for it. However, you should know approximately where you left off. If it's safe to drive in your area, try meeting at someone's house to have a general meeting. Figure out EXACTLY what needs to be done when you get back to your facilities, how it will be done, and who will do it.

Oh, and if you haven't finished your Chairman's, Woodie Flowers, or Website submissions, now would be an excellent time to do that. And if you hadn't even thought about submitting for Chairman's, why not give it a shot now that you've got a ton of time to work on it?

Good luck!

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

KARA SHUT UP! ;) Come up to Flint, the plows don't need more work, there is no money to run them.

Adding on to Kara's suggestions (that don't involve me cursing more at Kettering for being the only school within a couple counties open) If the roads are still to bad then simply meet electronically via email or conference call. Develop a plan of attack. Based on where you are at and what point you expect to get back to the robot figure out what goals you can do and what ones need to be changed.

Yes, bad things happened, learn from them, adapt, and get better.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

We're in Richmond and we've had a total of 2 school days in the past two weeks. BUT we planned ahead and met most snow days at our mentor's house and actually accomplished a great deal. Now, I understand that other teams have different situations (namely more snow in NOVA), but the point is that things CAN get accomplished during non-physical build days. Every snow day we didn't build was spent communicating through email and planning what we would do, CADding, addressing potential problems, working on awards, etc.

The reason I say this is that FIRST isn't going to give an extension and quite frankly, I would feel guilty accepting such an extension because we did get a lot done. I'm sure there are other teams out there who did the same thing, so it's a very hard call for FIRST. Blanket extensions always make someone mad.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

You had 6 weeks to build a robot like everyone else. If you cannot meet the deadline, dont compete, simple as that.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

little harsh dont you think?:ahh:

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

I bought a brand new snow blower in preparation for this years snow. Here I sit, waiting for some snow to use it but none comes.

Moral of the story, buy a snowblower and there will be no snow days. :rolleyes:

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Hold up. So if my robot isn't ready in 6 weeks, then I shouldn't be competing? I feel like there's something wrong with that statement. Unfortunately, a few years ago, my team showed up at their first event with a box of parts, and the robot was put together at the site. They still competed, and proceeded to advance to the semifinals at the next event.

This year, even a box on wheels can be helpful to an alliance. I would hope that, by the middle of week 5, all teams would have gotten their drivetrain sorted out. If worst comes to worst, a team could ship their half completed robot, and fix it at the site, trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Lifes too rough for you? should god give you some free time that all of the other teams dont get?

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

No, I agree that if you are just going to whine about tough design challenge FIRST isn't for you. Time limits are a design constraint we all have to face in the real world, whining about them won't get them changed.

This post went over the line, if you can't provide useful advice don't be a smart mouth.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Hey, we get that you have a strong opinion but there is no need to be rude. How about using a little gracious professionalism?

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Akash,

Fairfax County Public Schools (home of seven FRC teams) have been closed since last Friday. They've already canceled tomorrow and Friday. That means schools will be closed from Friday the 5th until at least Monday the 15th. Even if teams were able to get some of their parts and materials out of their shops/work spaces, they have been denied access to the rest of their material and large tools for better than a week. Beyond that there are a number of completely unusable roads and power outages that prevent teams from working even outside of school.

Despite even the best planning, this is a major setback.

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

With this winter being the heaviest snowfall on record, BEFORE the storm yesterday that dropped another 10 inches, and NOT INCLUDING whatever will come from the NEXT possible snowstorm they are now forecasting on Monday, it is quite a difficult situation. Many of the teams I work with are not allowed to meet outside of school without field trip forms. Some school districts have been closed for 13 days, that is 30% of the build season. A poll with the majority of teams in MD, DC and VA has an AVERAGE lost workdays at more than a week, 10 days. Just about any real project out there that suffered a loss of so much of the project time would suck it up, pay the costs, and buy some more time.

This is where some planning and coordination can be helpful, so when teams arrive at events, they will be able to help each other get running and running well quickly.

No robot left behind.
Wetzel

Re: Give us a waver*FREE Robots*God Bless
 

Sorry if i came off a bit angry, but we are struggling to finish our robot in our given time constraint, what i meant to say was GOOD LUCK!
(i need sleep)