Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Maybe the title of this thread should be updated...

One other note - "But it passed inspection at <fill in the blank> Regional". How nice for you that you didn't have to fix it then, but you need to fix it now. Stuff gets overlooked, some inspectors are more well versed in one area over another and may have misinterpreted something. The ruling of the lead inspector at each event is final.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Before I request this thread be removed as a sticky, I invite everyone who is attending a first week regional to post here, inspection items that they had missed during build. It will be a big help to teams for the remaining weeks.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al,

At the training phone call for my week two inspectors, some questions came up. Since they were covered by you in part 3, I thought I'd air them out here:

<R79> references the Parker plug vent valve, not the pressure relief valve. While I agree with you that the PRV makes more sense, rules are rules...

If the Norgen primary regulator is placed off board as per <R76> part D, doesn't this infer that all high side components listed in <R76> part B be also located off board... What would they connect to?

In the case of a 60 PSI only system, the connections between the on board and off board systems would be the pressure switch electrical, the compressor electrical (connected to the on board Spike) and the 60 PSI air connection.

I know that the items above may not be what the GDC intended but that's how I am interpreting the rules...

Regards,

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

You are correct. Pressure vent valve is the correct term.
The rule is unclear but following the sum of the pneumatic rules, at least the Spike feeding the compressor must be on the robot. As you have pointed out, the pressure switch must be before the regulator. If a team were to store only low pressure air with an off board compressor, I would rule they are legal if the 60 psi Norgren pressure regulator, the high side gauge, the pressure switch and compressor were off board provided all other rules are followed. That would indicate that an electrical connection for the compressor power and pressure switch would be required. I would think that that a gauge indicating stored pressure on the robot would be required to allow field personnel to be sure that working pressure is no higher 60 psi.
I think this discussion begs the point that a robot employing low pressure storage only with an off board compressor should also contain an on board pressure relief valve set to say 65-70 psi. Since the regulator is not present to maintain 60 psi, mechanical forces might be able to raise the pressure in the stored system.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Thanks AL (and others)!

We were the first to pass inspection at FLR (at 10:05AM)! What helped is we were prepared with all the docs. The inspectors were good, they had a very cool tool to measure bumper locations. As we walked the subsystems in the robot I had all the documents ready. So when they asked about the compressor I had the digital sidecar picture showing the connections and the kids could point and go "#24 is the pressure switch, #12 is the PWM cable to the Spike that is located under the cRio panel". I also had the SMC specs (thanks to the CD thread) so that was quick pass also.

My experience showed that if you have the docs available and organized the inspection process goes fast. And from working with the inspectors at FLR, nobody wants you to pass more than they do.

Yay FLR Inspectors!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Al,

If the Norgren is off board, you are correct. A on board PRV should be required.

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I have a few comments following inspections over the weekend. Teams are still having a hard time understanding FRAME PERIMETER vs BUMPER PERIMETER and how to construct bumpers. Many teams are mounting wheel supports and chain guides and axles on the outside of the frame. These brackets and attachments do define the FRAME PERIMETER, but the hardware that is used to mount all of the devices outside of the BUMPER ZONE extends beyond the FRAME PERIMETER and is therefore illegal. If the brackets are not supported or braced to something inside the robot, the robot weight allows these devices to bow out and extend outside of the FRAME PERIMETER. In worse case, these devices extend beyond the size limits even though the robot is the correct size in the BUMPER ZONE. A robot must meet the sizing requirements while in the sizing box, unconstrained and nothing shall extend outside of the FRAME PERIMETER except in the bumper zone for incidental fasteners only.
"<R16> During normal operation no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as permitted by Rule <G30>.
a) Exception: To facilitate a tight, robust connection between the BUMPERS and the FRAME PERIMETER, minor protrusions such as bolt heads, fastener ends, rivets, etc that are excluded from the determination of the FRAME PERIMETER and are within the BUMPER ZONE are permitted."

Figures 8-1 through 8-4 show the proper method for employing bumpers on your robot. Note that you must satisfy all of R07 not just parts. Fig 8-1 shows the limit of hard parts of the bumper. Fig 2 demonstrates the correct overlap in the corners, Fig 8-3 demonstrates that all bumper be backed up with robot frame. Finally Fig 8-4 demonstrates the method of limiting the plywood backing used in bumper construction so that hard parts do not extend into the corners.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I've got one.

The one item that tripped up pneumatics-equipped teams at Arizona more than any other was the power-on inspection, specifically the compressor relief valve test. This test involves removing the pressure switch from the system by connecting the leads, then seeing when the relief trips. The test is stopped if the valve doesn't release by 135-140 PSI.

It's a quick fix, too: undo the jam nut, then move the larger end piece in or out to get the pressure you need. It's supposed to trip at some point under 130 PSI. This is a legal adjustment this year. (Team Update #11)

I can think of exactly one team that passed this one the first time, of probably about a dozen that I saw inspected.

Oh, and it does need to be on the compressor, not on the accumulators or a brass fitting away from the compressor. Had a couple teams with that show up.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I wanted to get the opinion of this thread on our bumper attachment design, which I believe is NOT legal as is. Please look at the attached image. Notice the brackets mounted on top of the C-Channel frame? Those are our bumper mounts with the plywood backing being attached at each vertical mount.

My contention to the fabrication team is that there's too much space in between mount points and a clear violation of <R07-M> which states that 100% of the bumber backing must be supported. Confirm?

We also have the bolt head issue that needs fixing ... thanks to this and other threads confirming my suspicion on that front.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

It definitely looks like the mounting system as pictured does not meet <R07-M>. The bumper backing will only rest against those supports which do not cover anywhere near 100% of the frame width.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Kent,
It appears that the brackets stick out from the frame almost an inch. If that is the case, then you are correct, it does not satisfy the

M. The entire length of the BUMPER backing must be supported by the structure/frame of the ROBOT (i.e. the backing material must not be in “free space” between or beyond attachment points) (see Figure 8 – 3).

All sections of R07 must be compliant.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

this might need a clairification from the GDC.

for an off-robot compressor the rules contridict themselves pertaining the overpressure relif valve stating that it must be connected directly to the compressor and also stating that it must be on the robot. i have seen this interpreted diffrently and enforced inconsistantly by having some teams add a relief valve on both the robots tanks and the off-robot compressor, and overlooking others.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Tytus,
It has been my understanding that the GDC wrote the rules such that a PRV on the compressor is mandatory in any configuration to protect components and participants should all else fail. The PRV on the robot (when the compressor is off board) provides protection should one of the actuators be forced back with sufficient force to cause a system pressure rise that exceeds failing pressure on the components. Just an extra added safety valve.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

yep, so for you off-board compressor bots be prepared with an extra blowoff valve.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

So I want to make sure I understand this right, if we are using an off-board compressor we need to get a second automatic pressure relief valve to put on the robot as is on the compressor? If so do you know off hand where to get those from.