Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event thread.
 

OK readers.
This is where we start to list the things teams should not forget to check prior to ship.

Please read the bumper rules, again! Bumpers are at a different height this year, are non-moving and must be able to display two colors only Red and Blue.

Bumpers must have the Team Numbers in four inch high by 3/4" stroke contrasting colors on four sides of the robot.

No motors not provided in the KOP except those listed in the rules.

Make sure all mechanisms are safe to protect your students and those who are likely to be near the robot anytime it is out of the crate.

Weigh the robot and check the size. Then check your scale and your tape measure and repeat first sentence. It is easy to skin an ounce but impossible to lose thirty pounds. I can do it but you won't like it.

The FRAME PERIMETER is defined and nothing can extend beyond the perimeter outside of the bumper zone. Bolt heads, fasteners and axle shafts are include in the must not extend list.

Please check the First website for answers to the Q&A and the biweekly updates. We (your inspectors) check often and read all of it. We are up to Rev I on Section 8 and team update #11 came out last night.

Be sure you have downloaded and installed the latest software and firmware. If you are using CAN that means the firmware in your Jaguars needs to be the latest version. You will be asked to demonstrate the version numbers during inspection.

Please download the BOM template and use it to list your robot's materials and parts. Do it now while you still have the robot in front of you. It is part of the inspection and you will not be complete without it.

If you are using pneumatics (I am guessing many more teams than ever before will be this season) there is a list of minimum requirements for your system. Pressure relief valve, vent, regulator, two gauges and a pressure switch are all required items. The pressure switch is connected to the CRio, not the compressor. Operation of the system will be checked during inspections.

If you are using any parts that are not known by the inspectors, be ready to show spec sheets to prove they meet the minimums listed in the rules.

That is enough for now, I am sure others will soon tack on their choices. If you have any questions, ask.

Inspectors are not in place to keep you from playing. We are there to help you play, within the rules and safely. When you have a problem, let them try to help you or find someone who can.

Read the manual, wear your safety glasses, have fun!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Thanks for doing this list Al!

I'm sure it will help many teams in the last few days of build prepare for a happier unpacking at their competition.

Trying to Help

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al, great reminders :)

Are they going to post the inspection checklist here before ship?
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...nt.aspx?id=452

Kinda seems pointless to post it up there after ship (or at least makes the Thursday inspections MUCH slower).

I hit post too fast...
Had one question, from the definition of FRAME PERIMETER:
(bolding mine)

Is this the same:
Al, if I read your post, you are saying bolt heads cannot extend outside the frame perimeter, but I thought thats what the team update said was specifically allowed?

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Bolt heads are allowed outside the FRAME PERIMETER only within the BUMPER ZONE and nowhere else.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Kim, we went round and round on this here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=81042

As it stands now, from my understanding of Team Updates 6 and 7, you are allowed minor protrusions in your FRAME PERIMETER, and they do not count in the definition of it. But remember that FRAME PERIMETER is defined to be in the BUMPER ZONE.

Protrusions that extend beyond the vertical projection of your FRAME PERIMETER outside the BUMPER ZONE are disallowed except for the exclusions in <G30>. Bolts, axle ends, etc are not allowable exclusions.

So the way it sits is a bolt that holds your frame together within the BUMPER ZONE is OK. A bolt that holds your lower frame together or a bearing that holds your axle, is not excluded. The only effective way to get around this is to make sure your frame dimensions in the BUMPER ZONE are the largest dimensions of your robot.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

We are trying for today or tomorrow at the latest.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Ahhh ok we are on the same page :) I was thinking he meant that bolt heads in the bumper zone werent allowed... I think I read his item too fast to catch the "outside the bumper zone" as a qualifier... Im tired and Im not even in Rochester!! lol.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Just a few to add to Al's excellent post.

1) Remove all sharp edges from bot. I don't like to see any blood....especially mine :)

2) Check all the wiring. You don't want to go to your first regional and find out you used the wrong wire gage :eek:

3) ONLY your team number is allowed on the bumpers.

4) Only one motor per speed control.

Good luck this year.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

OK,
Time for another round. (anyone can add to this list)

The robot signal light (the big orange light in the white box) must be mounted and wired on the robot at the time of inspection.

The wireless adapter must be powered from the dedicated power connector on the Power Distribution Board (the PD). You will loose control without this critical power supply connection.

For Rookies and all other interested parties. bring the remainder of your 2010 KOP to the event. You might need something from that box of parts or you may need to trade for something. Be sure to check around your shop or build area to pick up everything that belongs back the kit. If you bring the KOP and have forgotten what I said at the top of this post, then all you have to do is reach in, take out the RSL and add it to your robot.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Ok, so this causes some problems for us... The way we are set up right now, i guess we break this rule as bolt heads extrude. If the bumper wood is already 3/4" thick, i dont see why first wouldnt allow for .25" extrusions max for bolt heads... Anyway, as it is now, our bumpers have an large, sturdy L bracket that is attached to the bumper perminantly and taps into our frame to attach there. I know that the bumper must rest fully along the frame also. So could we just attach the L bracket instead permentally to the robot (extending out of the frame 1/4 inches, making it a permiant fixture) and then just mount the bumpers onto that? It isnt as structural and is a bit harder to remove and adds weight to our robot, but would this be an acceptable solution? :eek:

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Rick, hopefully you have enough space and weight to add a solid strip of something around your FRAME PERIMETER to extend it beyond all those pesky protrusions.

It can't be something added to the BUMPER, because BUMPERS are limited to being built with plywood, pool noodles, cloth and fasteners.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Rick,
L brackets that are used to mount the bumpers on your robot are part of the robot for weight and size under certain circumstances. They are not part of the bumper. L brackets that are part of the bumper (as shown in the bumper diagram) used to secure the fabric are considered part of the bumper and are excluded from robot weight.

<R07> Teams are required to use BUMPERS on their ROBOTS. BUMPERS have several advantages, such as reducing damage to ROBOTS when they contact other ROBOTS or ARENA elements, and being excluded from the calculation of ROBOT weight and volume constraints specified in Rule <R10>.
G. Each set of BUMPERS (including any fasteners and/or structures that attach them to the ROBOT) must weigh no more than 20 pounds.

Please review the rules R07 and R10 and especially ask if you do not understand the definition of FRAME PERIMETER as it is written in the Rev I of the robot rules.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

So, if we have bolt heads in the bumper zone and bolt heads outside of the bumper zone that are in the same vertical plane the lower ones are not legal even though the max robot size is not exceeded?
Bruce

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

That's the most straightforward interpretation of the rule, yes.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Seems kind of rediculous to me. Woudln't the bolt heads define the robot perimeter?
Bruce

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

That's the problem, they do. Your bumpers have to be outside this perimeter. Only exception allowed is in the bumper zone.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

No because they are excluded from the FRAME PERIMETER while in the BUMPER ZONE

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Bruce,
We inspect to the GDC rulings listed in the rules as revised, Team Updates and Q&A.
We do not inspect to what teams would like, expect, wish, or pray for. Sorry but that leaves far too much to inspect.

And Oh by the way, the bolt heads in the Bumper Zone that protrude through the FRAME PERIMETER must still fit in the sizing box. See sentence one.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al, I read the 50 some page thread on this frame perimeter/bolt head thing and it leaves my head spinning. As it sits, robots with a flat side 20 inches tall that have rivets all over the side are illegal because the rivets in the bumper zone are excluded from the frame perimeter and then the rivets outside the bumper zone are now outside the frame perimeter and therefor illegal. It realy makes no sense. I guess we'll have to disturb our beautiful design and all some ugly strips of something in the bumper zone to redefine the frame perimeter.
Bruce

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Bruce, You can move to flat head screws outside the bumper zone.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Or countersunk rivets.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Ok,
Time for another round since no else is posting for the LIST.

The Crio and Camera must be isolated from the robot frame. There shall be no electrical connection to the robot frame. Check with a VOM with the battery removed. You should measure greater than 100 K ohms from either terminal of the PD to the frame of the robot.

The battery must be wired with the SB50 connectors supplied in the KOP. All primary wiring (Battery to breaker to PD) must be a minimum of #6 wire.

Battery terminals and other exposed electrical contacts need to be insulated. The preferred method of using the battery charger is to replace the alligator clips with an SB50 connector like the one that is used to connect with the battery.

The main circuit breaker for the robot and the pressure vent valve if you use pneumatics, must be easily accessible from outside the robot.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

OK, I'll add my $.02.

Please, please, please....did I say Please? Have your BOM already printed BEFORE you get to the regional. There is no guarantee that anyone will have a printer.

Last year, at Championship, I found two robots that didn't follow this rule :ahh: One was a shorted wire to frame.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Wayne,

That rule has changed and you are now required to submit it electronically on a USB drive.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

I must have missed that memo :D

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

I have a couple...

1) If you haven't read the rules, do it again. This time, pre-inspect your robot. Better yet, get someone on another team to do that. This will highlight potential issues.

2) Have that BOM ready for the inspectors. Better yet, have it on USB beforehand, so that you can just plug and chug to get it to them.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

If anything even looks close to breaking the plane of your FRAME PERIMETER, do a simple "wall test" - push the robot against the wall (without bumpers) and make sure it doesn't. Any moving parts that may look like they break the plane - do the same thing, only run them through their entire motion.

Check your software/firmware version numbers. Make sure everything is up to date that needs to be (the cRio image, the driver station, and the Jaguars, if you're using CAN).

Check for a possible 3" ball incursion in ALL locations of your robot. Take a ball and roll it around every inch of your robot, not just your kicking mechanism! Pay special attention on the corners and in front of the wheels - i suspect this is where many teams will get tripped up.

Double and triple check your safety mechanisms. A lot of teams will have moving parts that store significant amounts of energy before release - ensure that you have sufficient safety mechanisms in place that they cannot be fired accidentally! A good rule of thumb is any safety mechanism should be able to withstand 2-3 times the amount of anticipated force.

That's all i have to add... for now :)

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

With updates 6 and 7 the wall test does not work any more. Bolt heads/rivets in the bumper zone do not factor into the frame perimeter. If you have any bolt heads/rivets in the bumper zone that are hitting the wall at the same time as bolt heads/rivets outside the bumper zone then those outside the bumper zone are outside the frame perimiter and thus illegal.
Bruce

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Naturally use your best judgment... but a wall test can certainly give you enough information to figure out if you have a problem or not. A 1/4 inch difference from protruding bolts can easily be measured off a flat wall if you're worried - it's a lot harder to "eyeball" a vertical plane.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Alright. Nobody move! I have a six foot level and I know how to use it!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Okay, there seems to be a large amount of confusion regarding this.

If we have a bolt head that sticks out on the other side of our frame YET IS WITHIN the overall footprint allowed by competition (36x28 or whatever it is), this is illegal?

I have been getting a lot of calls regarding this rule.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

If it sticks out in the BUMPER ZONE, you are OK.

If it is less than 10" or more than 16" off the ground, it's no good.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Here's mine:

<R76>... All working air must be provided through one primary Norgren adjustable pressure regulator.

The Norgren is the all black one; the one with the silver body is the Monnier secondary regulator (if you use it).

<R72> E. Additional 0.160” inch inside diameter pneumatic tubing functionally equivalent to that provided in the KOP, with the pressure rating clearly factory-printed on the exterior of the tubing

If you are using non KOP tubing, make sure it is marked.

<R21> ... All KOP items used on the ROBOT must be included in the BOM. The source for each of the KOP items should be listed as “KOP” and the indicated cost should be listed as “$0.00.”

Please list EVERY part on the robot, and show KOP quantities separate from additional quantities. Be sure to include bumper materials.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Question regarding wiring:
According to <R46>,
We are running our CIMs through a 40A breaker. By (A), the circuit should be 12 AWG or larger. However, the wires coming out of the CIMs themselves are 14 AWG. Where does the "Power Distribution Board branch circuit" end? Do we need to run 12 AWG to the Jaguars? If memory serves me right, we've used 14 in the past.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Yes, you need to run 12 AWG or larger from the Jaguar to the leads coming out of the CIMs (if the leads do not connect directly to the Jaguar) and from the Jaguar to the Power Distribution Board. The size of the wire that is supplied with the CIM (or any motor) is irrelevant to the wiring rules.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

OK, I'm feeling particularly generous tonight so I will let you in on the wiring we use for CIM motors in the drive system. We trim the CIM wires down to about 4-5 inches and terminate in Power Lock connectors. From the PD to the controller and from the controller to the power locks, all wiring is #10 and those lengths are as short as possible. By centrally locating the PD, all lengths can be at minimum.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

I am going to post this in a separate thread also. (Squirrel beat me to it.) If you check the FRC competition documents, you will find in addition to Rev J of the robot rules, the Inspection Checklist. Please use the checklist before you crate the robot to see if you have done everything correctly. Checking now and planning to correct something is better than finding out at your first event and rushing to correct.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

For the uninitiated wondering at Al's excessive 10 gauge wiring.... Assume a neat 10 ga wiring is 4ft round trip. Assume a messy 12 ga wiring is 6 ft round trip. For a CIM pulling 60 amps:
neat 10 ga: .2V drop, about 12W lost
messy 12 ga: .4V drop, about 24W lost
At 90 amps (yes they get there briefly):
.3V drop, about 18W lost
.6V drop, about 54W lost
Neat heavy wires win.

But back on topic. Your Lonestar Regional Lead Inspector (waves), would like to further emphasize the FRAME PERIMETER rule. If you've built a C-Frame chassis without the new wheel brackets, you are highly likely to be in violation of this rule. Please check your robot, because this isn't going to be any easy fix for teams pushing the 28x38x60 limits.
Other items to add to the LIST:
1. Your battery must be securely fastened (R18). This used to be a good idea, now it's the law. Don't think I won't put your robot on its side to see if the battery falls out.
2. For rookies: Battery monitoring on your driver station is mandatory. This means you need an analog bumper in Slot-1, with power from your PD, with a jumper on the two pins nearest the edge of the board.
3. Slight emphasis on a previous item. Your main power switch and pneumatic vent valve must be easily accessible. Easily means easily. If someone needs to get at one of these, it's to kill a dangerous robot. You don't want to have to reach deep inside said dangerous robot to effectively kill it. Put them near the outside of the robot. Keep access to the switch/valve clear enough for a clumsy adult to still be able to hit it.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Kevin,
A rule of thumb I use is the "wire foot" which is based on resistance of #10 wire, .001 ohms/ft. One foot of #10 wire at 100 amps drops 0.1 volts. So two feet of #10 wire (2' red and 2' black) totals 4 wire feet or 0.4 volts at 100 amps. The following are equivalents based on this concept.
2 ft. of #6 = 1 WF (wire foot)
1 ft of #12 = 2 WF
1 ft of #14 = 4WF
Victor = 4 WF
Old Jaguar = 3.5 WF
Battery = 11 WF

For 50 amps, divide WF by two.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

When our electrical team asks why I want them to use 10 awg instead of 12 like the rules say I always reply with "because Big Al says so."

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Sam,
So that's why I get funny looks when I come to your pit!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Obscure reference to "Big Al" -
http://ratchet.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Al

Among my many weaknesses is that I'm a HUGE Ratchet & Clank videogame nut (for the Playstation systems). One of my favorite characters from the series is Big Al from Al's Roboshack (see above link). Enjoy!

Russ

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Russ,
That guy doesn't even look like me. Does he? No I have a beard, yeah that's it.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Kim, et al,

Just in case anyone is still fuzzy, here is a slide from a PowerPoint presentation I made this last Saturday...

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al,
Have you ever measured the resistance of the additional connector in the line? If the wire from the CIM is long enough to go straight to the Jaguar, it seems like the resistance of the additional connector (which is just a friction joint) would be higher than the benefit of replacing the #14 wire with #10 for that length.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Next,
Have I talked about bumpers yet? Bumpers are and will continue to be a place that teams seem to miss the mark. The rule for bumpers is a long one with several paragraphs. The rule R07 is to be taken in it's entirety when designing your bumper system. What may not be immediately evident is the "hard parts" shown in Figure 8-1 is a cross sectional view. The "hard parts" refers to the items used in the construction of the bumper, not the robot frame. These parts include the hard 3/4" plywood backing, the hard aluminum angle and the hard fastening system. Your bumper system must also conform to all of the rest of the figures as well. No plywood shall extend beyond the corner of the frame as shown in Fig 8-4. No bumper shall cross an opening in the frame structure as shown in figure 8-3 and par M. Any segments in bumper design must be a minimum of 6" long as shown in Fig 8-2 and par B.
As has been discussed earlier in this thread, bolt heads, rivets and other fasteners can extend outside the FRAME PERIMETER in the BUMPER ZONE only. To allow for a secure mounting of the bumpers to the frame, small clearance holes can be made in the back of the bumper.
Please consider how you will lift the robot to place it on the field and remove it. Bumpers are not the best alternative for this. Many teams devised lifting handles for their robots last year and those systems greatly impressed the UL safety advisors. Some were as simple as rope attached to the frame and threaded through a six inch length of 1/2" PVC tube. Some were more elaborate using aircraft cable or flip out handles.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Gary,
According to the manufacturer, the crimped power lock or Anderson connectors are in the order of .01 to .5 milliohms. We improve that a bit by soldering the crimp so I am confidant the connection is well below the .5 milliohm max. The #14 wire is something like 2.5 milliohms/ft. The reason we use power locks is to make repairs easy and fast. When practical I would recommend a direct connection to the controller.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Thanks Al for the reminder. You are myHero!!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

I have just helped a couple of rookie teams with the protruding bolts problem, so here are a couple of thoughts. (Full disclosure: When we did the CAD and weld for the frame, our team captain hadn't completely digested the rules and didn't notice the difference between bolts protruding inside and outside the bumper zone. So we had to follow some of this advice ourselves. Fortunately he followed our 36 x 26 unless it absolutely has to be bigger rule, so we had space to add on to the frame to extend the bumper perimeter.)

First a thought that occurred to me this morning. Our welds would probably make our robot illegal if we hadn't already had to make corrections for the bolt heads. The welds stick out a little bit from the flat surface of the structural tubes. I would not be surprised to see some other teams with this problem with welds as well.

If you have protruding bolts and you are pushing the edge of the 38 x 28 max dimensions, you need to spend some serious time thinking about your design right now. This is true of a lot of teams that used the C-Base for a robot without a lot of ground clearance.

If you have some space and weight to spare, you can put a rail around the edge of the robot in the bumper using aluminum u-channel. You can use something like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#4592t16/=5xioph
If you put this around your frame but inside the bumper zone, you can add a bolts head width to your frame inside the bumper zone, which makes that the new frame perimeter. This is only going to work if there is something solid to attach it to, but since you have to have a solid place to attach the bumpers you should be OK. Basically think of this as wrapping your robot in a 1" x .5" or 1" by .25" strap inside the bumper zone. The outside edge of the strap will then be the FRAME PERIMETER.

Don't try to bore a big hole in the side of 1x1 aluminum tubing or c-channel stuff and countersink bolt heads. This greatly weakens the structure of the frame.

Al, thanks very much for the thread. Even after 9 years of doing this I learn things. Never thought about cutting back the leads on the CIMs to increase the length of 10 AWG run while decreasing the length of 14 AWG.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

We used a strip of 1/4" plywood on the outside of our 1"x1" box tube to accomplish the same thing. We roughed up the aluminum with a file and attached the strips with hot glue. The strips are very light and should be plenty strong as they just transfer the load to the aluminum. The hot glue should also be plenty strong as the strips are always being pushed against the frame and never pulled off of it.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Kevin,
I would like you to rethink the hot glue idea. When you glue to aluminum tubing without it already being hot, it is like a cold solder joint. I am hoping you are not depending on this to be a structural joint.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al,

As I mentioned the joint is always in compression when the bumpers are installed. There is no way to put the joint under tension or shear. The pieces are simply shims to fix our frame perimeter error.

The hot glue joint is pretty much there to keep the pieces on the frame when the bumpers are off. The largest shear force is gravity.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Good answer.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

So your frame will never flex or bend when you're driving, turning, bumping, hoisting? Hmmmmmmm.........

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

OK,
Time for a little departure to Al's personal list of what I like to see when I walk up to inspect your robot in your pit.
1. Nice safe work area, not too many power cords laying around, or low hanging objects and everyone wearing safety glasses over their eyes.
2. Battery terminals nicely insulated on all batteries. Gold star if you have changed the alligator clips on your charger to an SB50 battery connector as recommended.
3. No shop compressors, they are loud and draw enough current to trip breakers for other pits. No grinders, torches, or welders. A gold star for a safety checklist or some form of safety awareness.
4. Students and lots of them. All smiling and happy in their work.
5. A good worksurface or elevated cart for the team to work on the robot.
6. No auto type battery chargers capable of more than 6 amps ever.
7. A robot with no obvious sharp edges, no entanglement issues, and no mechanisms that will jump out and whack me or some else when I least expect it.
8. Covers off or open, bumpers ready to go on, a battery ready to be installed and the driver station ready to be tethered.
9. I will ask for a lead electrical student, a lead mechanical student and a pneumatics students if your team has one. Everyone else can take a giant step to the outside of the pit.
10. If a judge is present and asking questions I will return when they have finished.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Great point. I can't tell you how many times I went to the pits last year, and a mentor was trying to answer the questions. I know that we all get excited about our work, but this is the time for the kids to shine. Let them be responsible for their work. Mentors should be training the 'leads' on how to answer the inspection questions.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Good point. If the hot glue pops off due to that we will redo it or use another adhesive to attach the strips.

We also probably have room to bolt through the strips if it becomes necessary and pocket the bumpers, but we would like to avoid that.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Next installment, looking at the Inspection Checklist.
Rev A is on the First website now and another revision is currently in process. Start working through the list with your students. This will allow you and them to fully understand everything that is there and will give you a logical path to check.
The first section has weight and size checks for both the robot and both sets of bumpers if you have chosen this option. This occurs at the inspection station where the scale and sizing box are located. Bring your robot and bumpers and the thumb drive with your BOM file on it. The BOM will be copied to the computer in the inspection station. Please follow the naming convention provided.
During sizing, your robot will be inspected for FRAME PERIMETER and incursions.
Depending on the regional, the remainder of the inspection will take place in your pit. Inspectors should ask for a lead electrical student and a lead mechanical student to walk them through the inspection process.
The next section is the mechanical inspection. We will check for items on the robot that can damage people, damage the field or damage other robots. This is a hands on part of the inspection where the inspector will run their hands all over your robot checking for sharp edges, protrusions, parts that can puncture balls or hurt your students when they are lifting the robot. Fear not, this laying of hands imparts good luck. You will be asked to call up your BOM on the Classmate while the inspection continues so that the inspector can look for items in the BOM.
Of interest will be the ability for your robot to kick, what method or stored energy you are using and how safe the mechanism is during transport. It is of prime importance that stored energy of any legal form cannot be released accidentally while in the pit, while being inspected or while transporting the robot to the field. Please make sure the students that are involved in the inspection have full knowledge of how the locking device functions and how effective it is. During this part of the inspection, we will look for decorations and signage. Your robot should have your school and sponsor names on the robot and any logos. Be proud of your school and sponsor and show off.
Lighted decorations will also be checked for hazards to people and damage to the field.
Finally, your ability to have balls enter the FRAME PERIMETER by no more than 3" will be checked as well as your kicker extending beyond the FRAME PERIMETER but not beyond the BUMPER PERIMETER.
Stay tuned for the electrical inspection in part two...

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Part 2, Electrical Inspection
Inspectors will ask to see your battery inventory to check for insulation, battery type and safe handling.
This year's game is going to involve a lot of violent activity so the battery must have a secure mounting system. A cage or box that hold the battery in place is a good start. Tywraps, velcro belts and pipe strap are not going to suffice this year without something else to hold the battery in your robot. If it falls out, you will be disabled.
We will look for your main breaker, it needs to be easily seen with covers in place and accessible to anyone on the field. If your robot starts to smoke, you want someone who can turn it off so you can play again later.
Since the Linksys wireless is out of production, you can have either the WET610Nor WGA600N and they must be powered from the dedicated +12 volt connector on the PD.
Inspectors will compare the breaker size installed in your PD with the wire size that is leaving the PD. 40 amp gets a #12 or larger, 30 amp gets a #14 or larger and 20 amp gets a #18 or larger. During this check, color coding will also be checked. Remember, only one wire per Wago connector.
Moving on to servos, they must be connected to the digital sidecar and will be checked for type. Be prepared if you are using a larger type that you can support the torque specs.
Next will be a motor check and count. No more than 5 CIM, 2 Denso Left, 2 Denso Right, 2 Fisher Price, and 2 Mabuchi. That means no Globe, no drill motors, no early FP motors and no van door motors. No modifications except for output shaft and mounting holes. No drilling of the case, sanding, machining, or dis-assembly. Only one motor per controller and CIM and FP motors must be controlled by a speed controller.
For some of the teams, there will be custom circuits to check over and powered decorations. Please remember that all need to be fed from a circuit breaker.
Connections to the frame of the robot are not allowed so you will need to show insulation for both the Crio and camera if you use it as well as any custom circuits or sensors. Ohmmeter checks may be needed to verify this part of the inspection.
Finally, the firmware updates will be looked at. If you use CAN, the Jaguars will need the latest version of firmware in order to work with field control and for safety.
Part 3 will cover pneumatic checks and power ON tests.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Part 3, Pneumatics and Power ON Tests.
If you do not use pneumatics your inspector will just skip this part but it appears that more teams will use pneumatics this year than ever before.
The First thing an inspector will look at is the compressor. If you are using one of the equivalent devices allowed this year, be sure to have the spec sheet to show during inspections. Your inspector will also make sure you have entered it on the BOM. The pressure relief valve needs to be mounted on the compressor and calibrated per TU#11. If you are using an off-board compressor then several robot rules apply including R79 for an additional pressure relief valve. Please point out the Spike used to control the compressor.
If an off-board compressor is used for 120 psi, then only the compressor can be off board. Everything else must remain on the robot including the Spike, pressure switch, etc. When using only 60 psi stored pressure, the regulator can also be placed off-board.
The inspector will continue to look for required pneumatic system parts, the pressure switch, regulator, two gauges, one for high side storage and one for working pressures, no more than four accumulators, etc. Inspection will continue to look for extraneous tubing, odd valves and actuators over 2" bore and 24" stroke. Most importantly, inspectors will be checking for safe methods of mounting and securing moving parts, especially those parts used for working pressure storage only.
Moving on to the Power ON testing, you will be asked to insert a battery, tether your robot to the operator's control system and turn on power to your robot. During this procedure, we will be checking to see if the robot signal light is flashing and the team number is correctly displayed. You will then be asked to enable the robot while we check to see if the RSL stops flashing, the compressor (if you have one) starts to run and pressure builds up to 120 psi and then shuts off. You will need to demonstrate that the battery voltage is correctly displayed on screen, and show the firmware for the Crio and DS are the correct version number. When complete, you will be asked to turn power off, vent any pressure while we check for complete system vent, and all LEDs are extinguished.
Once everything is passed, your captain and team mentor will be asked to sign the the inspection form and a passed sticker will be added to your robot.
Please remember that all events require you to have re-inspections following any changes to the robot. I would suggest that you contact your LRI prior to any changes for assistance in making the changes legal. Also, robots that will be playing in finals matches and alternate robots will be required to be reinspected prior to finals match play. Check with your LRI for the procedure for this inspection. Most events will be using a modified inspection process for the finals. Leave your bumpers on and come weigh in. If your combined weight matches your inspection weight for robot and bumpers, then you will pass the second inspection. If your weight is different, be prepared to explain the difference (even if the weight is lower) and expect additional inspection. As always, random re-inspection can take place at any time during the weekend at the discretion of the LRI, FTA or Head Ref.
Have fun everyone and Good Luck!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Maybe the title of this thread should be updated...

One other note - "But it passed inspection at <fill in the blank> Regional". How nice for you that you didn't have to fix it then, but you need to fix it now. Stuff gets overlooked, some inspectors are more well versed in one area over another and may have misinterpreted something. The ruling of the lead inspector at each event is final.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Before I request this thread be removed as a sticky, I invite everyone who is attending a first week regional to post here, inspection items that they had missed during build. It will be a big help to teams for the remaining weeks.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! thread.
 

Al,

At the training phone call for my week two inspectors, some questions came up. Since they were covered by you in part 3, I thought I'd air them out here:

<R79> references the Parker plug vent valve, not the pressure relief valve. While I agree with you that the PRV makes more sense, rules are rules...

If the Norgen primary regulator is placed off board as per <R76> part D, doesn't this infer that all high side components listed in <R76> part B be also located off board... What would they connect to?

In the case of a 60 PSI only system, the connections between the on board and off board systems would be the pressure switch electrical, the compressor electrical (connected to the on board Spike) and the 60 PSI air connection.

I know that the items above may not be what the GDC intended but that's how I am interpreting the rules...

Regards,

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

You are correct. Pressure vent valve is the correct term.
The rule is unclear but following the sum of the pneumatic rules, at least the Spike feeding the compressor must be on the robot. As you have pointed out, the pressure switch must be before the regulator. If a team were to store only low pressure air with an off board compressor, I would rule they are legal if the 60 psi Norgren pressure regulator, the high side gauge, the pressure switch and compressor were off board provided all other rules are followed. That would indicate that an electrical connection for the compressor power and pressure switch would be required. I would think that that a gauge indicating stored pressure on the robot would be required to allow field personnel to be sure that working pressure is no higher 60 psi.
I think this discussion begs the point that a robot employing low pressure storage only with an off board compressor should also contain an on board pressure relief valve set to say 65-70 psi. Since the regulator is not present to maintain 60 psi, mechanical forces might be able to raise the pressure in the stored system.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Thanks AL (and others)!

We were the first to pass inspection at FLR (at 10:05AM)! What helped is we were prepared with all the docs. The inspectors were good, they had a very cool tool to measure bumper locations. As we walked the subsystems in the robot I had all the documents ready. So when they asked about the compressor I had the digital sidecar picture showing the connections and the kids could point and go "#24 is the pressure switch, #12 is the PWM cable to the Spike that is located under the cRio panel". I also had the SMC specs (thanks to the CD thread) so that was quick pass also.

My experience showed that if you have the docs available and organized the inspection process goes fast. And from working with the inspectors at FLR, nobody wants you to pass more than they do.

Yay FLR Inspectors!

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Al,

If the Norgren is off board, you are correct. A on board PRV should be required.

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I have a few comments following inspections over the weekend. Teams are still having a hard time understanding FRAME PERIMETER vs BUMPER PERIMETER and how to construct bumpers. Many teams are mounting wheel supports and chain guides and axles on the outside of the frame. These brackets and attachments do define the FRAME PERIMETER, but the hardware that is used to mount all of the devices outside of the BUMPER ZONE extends beyond the FRAME PERIMETER and is therefore illegal. If the brackets are not supported or braced to something inside the robot, the robot weight allows these devices to bow out and extend outside of the FRAME PERIMETER. In worse case, these devices extend beyond the size limits even though the robot is the correct size in the BUMPER ZONE. A robot must meet the sizing requirements while in the sizing box, unconstrained and nothing shall extend outside of the FRAME PERIMETER except in the bumper zone for incidental fasteners only.
"<R16> During normal operation no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as permitted by Rule <G30>.
a) Exception: To facilitate a tight, robust connection between the BUMPERS and the FRAME PERIMETER, minor protrusions such as bolt heads, fastener ends, rivets, etc that are excluded from the determination of the FRAME PERIMETER and are within the BUMPER ZONE are permitted."

Figures 8-1 through 8-4 show the proper method for employing bumpers on your robot. Note that you must satisfy all of R07 not just parts. Fig 8-1 shows the limit of hard parts of the bumper. Fig 2 demonstrates the correct overlap in the corners, Fig 8-3 demonstrates that all bumper be backed up with robot frame. Finally Fig 8-4 demonstrates the method of limiting the plywood backing used in bumper construction so that hard parts do not extend into the corners.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I've got one.

The one item that tripped up pneumatics-equipped teams at Arizona more than any other was the power-on inspection, specifically the compressor relief valve test. This test involves removing the pressure switch from the system by connecting the leads, then seeing when the relief trips. The test is stopped if the valve doesn't release by 135-140 PSI.

It's a quick fix, too: undo the jam nut, then move the larger end piece in or out to get the pressure you need. It's supposed to trip at some point under 130 PSI. This is a legal adjustment this year. (Team Update #11)

I can think of exactly one team that passed this one the first time, of probably about a dozen that I saw inspected.

Oh, and it does need to be on the compressor, not on the accumulators or a brass fitting away from the compressor. Had a couple teams with that show up.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I wanted to get the opinion of this thread on our bumper attachment design, which I believe is NOT legal as is. Please look at the attached image. Notice the brackets mounted on top of the C-Channel frame? Those are our bumper mounts with the plywood backing being attached at each vertical mount.

My contention to the fabrication team is that there's too much space in between mount points and a clear violation of <R07-M> which states that 100% of the bumber backing must be supported. Confirm?

We also have the bolt head issue that needs fixing ... thanks to this and other threads confirming my suspicion on that front.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

It definitely looks like the mounting system as pictured does not meet <R07-M>. The bumper backing will only rest against those supports which do not cover anywhere near 100% of the frame width.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Kent,
It appears that the brackets stick out from the frame almost an inch. If that is the case, then you are correct, it does not satisfy the

M. The entire length of the BUMPER backing must be supported by the structure/frame of the ROBOT (i.e. the backing material must not be in “free space” between or beyond attachment points) (see Figure 8 – 3).

All sections of R07 must be compliant.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

this might need a clairification from the GDC.

for an off-robot compressor the rules contridict themselves pertaining the overpressure relif valve stating that it must be connected directly to the compressor and also stating that it must be on the robot. i have seen this interpreted diffrently and enforced inconsistantly by having some teams add a relief valve on both the robots tanks and the off-robot compressor, and overlooking others.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Tytus,
It has been my understanding that the GDC wrote the rules such that a PRV on the compressor is mandatory in any configuration to protect components and participants should all else fail. The PRV on the robot (when the compressor is off board) provides protection should one of the actuators be forced back with sufficient force to cause a system pressure rise that exceeds failing pressure on the components. Just an extra added safety valve.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

yep, so for you off-board compressor bots be prepared with an extra blowoff valve.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

So I want to make sure I understand this right, if we are using an off-board compressor we need to get a second automatic pressure relief valve to put on the robot as is on the compressor? If so do you know off hand where to get those from.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

seeing as how it's a piece of crap and only other other robot teams would have one lying around. No

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

It's a Norgren valve, part number 16-004-011. It came loose in the Red tote.

Make sure you calibrate it before use...

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

It's also the same part that has been in the KOP for years, so veteran teams can probably just pull one off of a previous year's robot. Maybe bring a few extra in case a rookie team is in need of one.

And, by the way, it's the same part you will need to put downstream of the regulator if you don't have documentation to show that your solenoid valves are rated at 125 psi. So you could need 3; 1 offboard, 1 on the 120 psi side set at ~125, and 1 on the 60 psi side set below your valve's pressure rating.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Strong statement. Do you have any facts to back it up? We've been using them for 5 years and never had any problems at all. I'm not aware of any other local teams that have had any problems with them either.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Still confused about bolt heads sticking out from the frame ...

If you have fastened something to the frame and the only thing sticking out from the frame is the bolt head (in this case 10x24 screw heads), do the screw heads have to be covered with clad aluminum as suggested above or do the screw heads fall under the exception give in update 6. Further note, the screw heads do not exceed the maximum dimensions of the robot.

Must the bumpers be "gouged out" to make room for the bolt heads so that the bumper back makes full contact along the frame?

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

If the screw heads are in the Bumper zone, they are fine. If outside the bumper zone, they are a problem.

We created countersink indentions in the wood of our bumpers to make sure the bolt heads did not interfere with solid contact with the frame. So yes, it is a good idea.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

The first part is definitely correct.

As to the second part it is much more than a good idea. It is required in order to meet the <R07-M> requirement of full bumper-to-support contact.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

This is a good question. If it is required to have a 2nd pressure relief valve on the robot (when using off board compressor) then it should be put on the inspection checklist. Many inspectors won't go through the manual when checking the robot, they use the checklist.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

There is no way to make an inspection checklist inclusive of every item lest it become as large as the manual itself. If an inspector is unsure of a rule, they should see their LRI. If the LRI needs to research the issue, he or she will tell the RI to skip over that item and continue with the inspection until a clear ruling can be researched and made.

At least that's how I handle it...

Regards,

Mike

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Yep. While inspecting at Arizona, I ran across a team that had their relief valve away from their compressor on some brass fittings, and had their dump valve and a gauge on the compressor. "But it passed at X preseason!" "That's not official. This is." "But it passed at X preseason!" "One of you guys go get that guy in the black vest [the LRI] over at the inspection station, and we'll see what he says." A few minutes later, they were changing the system.

Or the team whose pressure never reached maximum... Or the one who manually started their compressor and stopped it automatically... I got the LRI's call on those two.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

If I remember correctly from looking at your robot in Milwaukee, the problem was with bolt heads that were protruding beyond the frame perimeter and were not behind the bumpers, making it necessary to expand your frame perimeter.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

FYI, at BMR I had to tell two teams that they had the wrong wire size for a 40 Amp breaker. Both had 14 gauge wire instead of the minimum size of 12 gauge.
14 goes with 30 Amp.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I sent an email to the teams that were attending the Midwest Regional about a week before the event. Although it included the following, many teams had not yet updated the firmware. So as a reminder to week 4 and 5 teams, read the following...

Inspectors will be checking for the following issues:
You must have the latest firmware for Crio, Classmate and Jaguars. The latest Crio image must be 2010_V20, DS Firmware must be 10.02.08.00, and the Jaguar version is v89. The Jaguar firmware is required if you are using the CAN bus and is needed for safety and field control.

The DS firmware takes the longest to install (maybe 30 minutes) so don't expect that we can complete inspection, change your firmware to the right version and have you playing in the match that is coming up in fifteen minutes. We are good, but we are not miracle workers.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

The latest version of Jaguar firmware is v90: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=84371

It looks like the recommendation is not to update unless you're experiencing a specific bug, so I guess that probably means your inspection should be checking for either v89 or v90, even though v89 is not the latest firmware.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

What happened to us was our programmer had downloaded all the latest stuff but installed the labview updates on the development computer and not the drive station. Please make sure you do both.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

Right again Dave. The update came out last week after I composed the email. the current version of the inspection checklist is...
Jaguars with CAN – Must use firmware version 86 or newer and cannot be connected to a PWM signal <R63>.

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

It looks like 326 may need some help with bumpers and frame perimeter, for anyone going to Troy. http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=15188

Re: Al's Annual Inspect before you ship! and What To Expect at Your First Event threa
 

I am double posting this so it gets your attention...

OK Everyone, get ready!
Bill has announced on the blog that Wednesday is a go for inspections.

"It’s going to happen. I’ve found enough Inspectors and the set up crews promise they’ll have the stations ready. If you’re coming to Championship, plan to have up to five of your team members (at least one must be an adult mentor) ready to un-crate your robot, charge your batteries, encrypt your radio and get your robot inspected all on Wednesday night. You can even start to set up your pit if you have time. Pits open at 6PM and close at 9PM. We’ve made this change this year to help teams be ready to go at 1PM on Thursday when competition rounds begin.
Bill"

Emphasis is mine.