Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

Did people just fail to see this post entirely?

You people also do realize how thick headed and arrogant engineers and engineering oriented students can be right? Don't get too worked up in this argument.
+.02

Clearly "fair" is one of the most arguable words in the English language.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

The 3 adults on our team get threatened with this every year and somehow manage to stay married. Good luck.

I have always hoped of a shortened build season. I was hoping with the suggested change that FIRST could remove one week and go right from build and into the competitions.

I agree that the FIRST season is to long. I idea behind FIRST is to inspire students. But shipping a robot to an event and then from event to event when the students are most interested in learning from it and working on it makes no sense to me. Why are the rules setup so that a team can't work on a robot if they can't afford to go to an event when teams that can afford to go to most events can work on their bot.


A lot of money is wasted shipping a robot around the country when team are going there anyway and can take it with them. If teams need to ship there bot to an event because they are flying they still can. I have never had the liberty to fly to an event in all the time I have been in FIRST.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

I will let you in on a secret....Don't tell anyone.....If you sign up early enough anyone can go to nationals.

You do not have to qualify to get there. FIRST states it that way to make a lot of people like you think it is a special thing to get into nationals and it is not. It is only special if you earn it, but you don’t have to earn it to go. If you had to earn it to go they wouldn’t have as many people going because it is a lot to work to plan a trip for 50 people in 2 weeks.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

Citation please.

Also, you are from a team that consistently attends the CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT(not nationals), what would you know about the "specialness" of this event? Maybe you've just lost touch of what attending the championship and being with caliber teams really means. I'm also from a team that consistently attends, whether we "earn" a spot or not, it is still very special to our team.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

From a non-technical point of view, I have always seen the beauty of FIRST as the insane six weeks where everyone is stressed and freaking out. The 6 week limit is part of the experience and the learning process and shipping the robot holds this to be true. I think taking away that part of the experience takes a lot from FIRST as a whole.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

just my two cents, but the six weeks is also set in place to give a sort of realistic view on what it might be like working on large group projects in a real job world. you have time lines you have to meet, no exceptions.

one quote, that woodie has said many times over the years is: "We're given a problem too big, a time to short, a team to large, a budget too small, but we have to make it work because that's exactly how it happens in the real world"

((those may not be the exact words, but it's to the point enough))

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

Surely this has been said already, but here is my opinion (to back up my vote): The 6 week build season is an unreasonably short period of time for the necessary tasks. This is FIRST's greatest value, since having a tight timeline brings out the very best in engineering work, and allows flaws in the process to be spotted easily.

A recent Harvard Business Review article talking about business transformations advocated providing a too-tight timeline for a major corporate overhaul or initiative as a way of keeping people focused on the task and quickly identifying those who were not committed to implementation.

There are parallels in an FRC team; you want people to focus intensely on the task and not lose interest, and not let the process just grind on and on forever, by having them perceive insufficient tme to complete a task; and you want anyone not really committed to go away and stop consuming resources from the team - i.e., the slackers and posers.

Without that, FRC is just something else in the curriculum, prone to attracting those just looking for a "vacation" and the chance to play with expensive stuff, having little if any commitment to anything.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

I believe he meant it as, FIRST writes it to be like going to the super bowl. Trust me he knows how special it is reguardless. Last year we did have to earn our spot to go to nationals, and we did, but for finical reasons couldn't attend. Going to Atlanta is special, yet FIRST makes it seem so hard to get to when it really isn't.

I think that helps explain his comment...

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

We didn't go last year. If you read my post I said it is special if you earn a place to go. If you just go then you aren't anymore special then any of the other teams that "just go" I said nothing that the "Championship" weren't a special event. They are a great event and wish our team could afford to go every year.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

WoHo 100 posts in 10 hours. Man we got some people fired up on this one.

Hope everyone has a great time at their competitions and are safe. We all need each other.

What are those steps?

shock/denial/anger/acceptance

I think we have hit the first 3, but will we ever make it to the third. Maybe some year. Remember change is good.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

I missed this post earlier, and I figure I should probably go ahead and say why I think it was important for my team to attend the event, and what the net result of the event win was for the team, the students involved, etc. I don't mean this post to be a justification for attending more than one regional, as I don't feel I need to do that, but rather a view of a bigger picture than "those jerks came and took our trophies away". It's rather easy to miss stuff like that when looking through the limited lens of your own team, as I did on my FTC team less than a year prior to the event.

1714 had a crappy run at Wisconsin. The game was exciting, the Chairman's went off without a hitch obviously, but nearly everything else went wrong. For many, the event was not very good. The programmers spent the entire regional calibrating the camera and repurposing the shooter as a short range device. Drivers were frustrated with an unresponsive robot due to a really poorly implemented traction control algorithm. I could tell how frustrated the team was when we had a rather long scouting meeting for a rather simple to compile pick list. I probably wouldn't have said it at the time, but if it weren't for the Volunteer of the Year award presented to the lead mentor and the Chairman's Award, it really wouldn't have been a success. I'm not trying to define success through trophies, but basically, we weren't ready.

Apparently, this isn't completely uncommon for 1714. The second regional is often more successful than the first in both trophies and in achievement aside from the awards. And if not, we at least relax a little more and generally have a more inspiring time at later events than at the first event. This is why the team goes to two events.

So we went to Minnesota. We calmed down, regrouped, and pushed. Teammates who weren't sure of their role figured out their strengths at competition and fit into them. Scouts and judge talkers improved. 1714's PR... existed :P And without Chairman's or perfecting a robot to worry about, there was a lot less stress, a lot more interteam communication and interaction, and a lot more inspired, happy students. We made a ton of new friends and strengthened partnerships. If you polled my team, 90% would say it was the best regional experience ever. Oh, and we happened to win the event too, something our team had never even gotten close to before. (I guess Wisconsin 2007 was the only time we had a shot after alliance selection was complete, I think)

The event was tremendously beneficial for 1714, and it inspired students in ways Wisconsin could not.

I hope you realize what benefits two regionals get for our team in satisfying the mission of FIRST. The more events for teams, the more likely students walk away inspired.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

Yup, I could. I have heard it every year for the last 7 and promptly realized that there is something missing. Cory said it perfectly, we need sustainable teams. I have seen teams, and been part of teams, that are struggling to survive. It sucks. No, I don't mean it sort of sucks, I mean like, it is among the most sickening things I have ever experienced. Seeing the slow death of something that has meant so much to so many people is disgusting. I will take 5 sustainable teams over 100 unsustainable teams.

FIRST is NOT about education. I'm not arguing, FIRST is the Superbowl of smarts. You don't go to the Superbowl to learn how to play football (American football) you go to be inspired.


There is a quote that sums up my feelings perfectly, "You can either drag the competition down to your level or you can rise up to theirs"

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

How is FIRST not about education, as much as it is about inspiration? Aren't you supposed to be inspired to learn from others? How many members of your team have come asking how does this work and, how can we do this? I learned just as much as I was inspired.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

Im not saying it doesn't educate merely saying the purpose is not to educate but to inspire. Now it turns out that education is usually a nice side effect.

Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.
 

He means the stated mission was never to teach. Find a T in FIRST that stands for teaching, its not there. Learning about STEM is just a product of good mentoring.