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Re: Ranking
I understand that they want to find a better way of ranking seeding points but this just seems too full of political correctness of trying to make everyone feel good. Kind of the new scoring rules of t-ball. Everyone wins so no one feels bad.
A better way can surely be found. Believe me, our team has had years when our bot did great but the alliances we were in just didn't do well. So, even though we did well individually we have been seeded low on the list. We ended up getting picked for alliances in the quarter finals anyway most of the time. Because of profiling, this happens quite often. |
Re: Ranking
I'm afraid this was a case a fixing something that wasn't broken.
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Re: Ranking
I'll side with the game committee on this one, at least for the time being. I think if it were the win based system we'd see far too many of these matches end 0 - 0. I think that ballances out these odd everyone score on the same goals matches.
The BCS calculation for College Football definitely isn't simple. I don't think a complicated ranking system makes the sport any less interesting or entertaining. It's the odd strategies that develop from this particular complicated ranking system that make it confusing. I'd be in favor of an even more complicated system that didn't encourage this strange behavior. I really don't get these "everyone score in the same side" matches. Lets say the blue alliance decides to score in the red goals. Why wouldn't the red alliance get a comfortable lead then start scoring in the blue goals? It'd be like getting two points for every goal scored, points that can't be taken away by penalties. |
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If you agree to score in Red goals, then there are pluses and minuses for both teams: Red: Certainty of a win, easy to tell if Blue isn't following through Blue: As long as Red follows through, you'll get at least as many points as they do. If Red takes penalties (or even if you take penalties), they don't count against you in seeding points. |
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I agree with something Travis Hoffman said in another thread, Quote:
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Re: Ranking
I agree with what BrendanB and a few others have said.
On the point of the general public seeing this, yeah its not entirely evident, but it really is when the team wins a match by a few points, returns to the pit cheering, and then the cheering goes away when we find our rank moved down. 'Course I'm probably overstating something here, but we kinda got the feeling that is was "ok" to lose (as we moved up), but it kinda pushed us away from playing the game the best that we could, not that we didn't try to anyway. -Tanner |
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G29 Quote:
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Yep, it is wierd, but correct. |
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-Tanner |
Re: Ranking
I'm a little surprised at how much of an uproar this is causing. I'm looking at the final standings for all the week 1 regionals, and the top bots are still at the top where they belong. In the cases where a non-elite robot makes it into the top 8: that happened with the wins/losses ranking format too.
Here are some numbers from week 1 results that some people might find interesting. Code:
Week 1 (Avg. Match pts) (Avg. Seed pts/match) (#1 Seed pts/match) (#8 Seed pts/match) |
Re: Ranking
Actually, this was what our alliance did for our last qualification match, at the KC regional. We'd noticed the system didn't seem fair (why should the losing team get the points that the winning team scored?) so our alliance scored in the other alliance's goals. It ended up 13-0 with one penalty, so they had 13 QPs and we had 14. It was interesting, because we actually ended up playing defense in front of our own goals.
I agree that the system at least needs to be revised, to place more emphasis on wins and losses and less on the scores. Another problem that you could run into is that a blowout gives both alliances more QPs than a hard-fought match with well-played defense, where the score ends up, say, 2-3. It is also probably better for a losing team to lose by a lot-not a way to encourage continued scoring even if you're down. A final problem is that all the hullaballoo about ranking points means that teams may have to entirely change their strategies between qualification matches and finals. |
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- Sunny |
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Blue would put two robots in front of Blue's goals (that Blue would normally be trying to score on) to guarantee that Red couldn't score for the Blue alliance. |
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"working together" in quals isn't something I want to do; it eliminates the competitive fire from both sides, and frankly it just takes the fun out of it. Limiting competition limits the leaning experience. It's a shame that the rules are aimed at preventing a hard fought competition, because that's what's fun, and realistically, that's what the real world is like. Fluffing things over to help the losers feel better doesn't benefit anyone in the long run. I'll be honest, my team's performance left much to be desired last year. I didn't need people saying "oh well at least you tried" or have a skewed ranking system to help us. The best way to deal with it is to come in last. You can't learn unless you fail first. |
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