Boring Game
 

This is my first year as an alumni and i wad looking forward to watching my team on the web casts. However upon doing so I found it was not exciting.

From a distance most of the robots look the same, i found the numbers on the bumpers harder to read than in past years, making recognizing teams really hard, and the ranking system made the scores of the match meaningless.

Then i realized that that i never saw a single shot made from more than two feet, or a hang (there were only like 2 or 3 in the whole portland regional, i have watch some other highlights of hangs sense). I recognize that there probably were shots made from longer range and the web feeds don't catch everything, but i would say most points are scored from herding ball in from two feet away.

My conclusion was that this year game is just boring. I don't see two robots going at it, fighting to hang a ringer on the rack to double the alliance score at the last second to win. Thats what makes FIRST exciting.

So my question is, do people who watch the game live think it is exciting? Are there really cool designs across the board or are them really mostly the same? Is this year game just boring, or is it just the web casts?

Re: Boring Game
 

I think it was very exciting! I am not surprised that you are seeing this since most of the teams are new. What I really like about it is that when a team kicks the ball, you know there is a good chance it will bounce out which makes moving balls more of a suspense to watch and such an excitement to watch.

I personally like this years game.

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Its still week 1! The final match at DC ended up being 5 goals to 5 goals, with a two point hang, making the score 7 - 5. I'd imagine that as the season progresses, more teams will increase their capabilities, and the real stars will begin to shine.

Re: Boring Game
 

Yes there were a number of Rookie Teams but the Portland Oregon Regional has been around for years, there are a number of vets who always show up, yes there are no national powerhouses but in past years I have found the competition very exciting.

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Well the webcasts always take away from the excitement of the match, but it does seem a bit bland to me as well. I can't know for certain whether I like it or not until my local regional in week 4.

Re: Boring Game
 

I watched the finals of KC which were quite good (IMO) and from what I've read the finals of Peachtree were quite good as well.

I highly recommend watching the KC finals between 2410, 1625, 16 and 525, 931, 2345, and see if that changes your opinion on the game at all.

Those matches are already archived and available:
http://www.more.net/content/2010-fir...-final-matches

Re: Boring Game
 

It is not that bad. Webcasts aren't as exciting as attending an event because you never see the whole field and the team you want to watch is always off camera.

A mentor on our team came up with the system of multiplying all scores by 10 and results of 70-30 just felt more like a first game.;)

Re: Boring Game
 

Webcast < Being there

Just wait another decade or so and we'll get our webcasts in 3D HD, with mulitple feeds so we can watch the robots and not the artfully selected close-ups of the drivers.

Jason

Re: Boring Game
 

We had an exciting competition in Traverse City. It was an awesome first robotics competition for me :) There was full field goal shots and some nice mid field shots. This one team even got two balls in with one kick. We also had battle bots! Teams were constantly trying to tip over other robots.

Re: Boring Game
 

I found that my enjoyment of the game correlated significantly with the quality of the webcast. The high quality webcasts (KS and DC), I found very fun to watch as I could clearly the team numbers and all of the action. Other webcasts, however,(all of the U-Stream's) were barely watchable, and I had to depend on the announcer to follow the game.

Overall, I found this game much more interesting to watch because it was easy to tell a robot's alliance and the score.

Re: Boring Game
 

On Friday in San Diego, I stood fieldside, and found most of the matches rather boring. I can remember three teams I saw hang, two of them multiple times. But other than that, and the occasional tipping, nothing too exciting. No real head to head action (yet) in this game. Everyone just seems to do their own thing. Were finals better I hope?

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Now I must admit I am biased but if you get a chance to watch the Greater KC Regional final you will change your mind. The Red Alliance was beat handily in the first match then rallied to take the next 2 in the most exciting matches I have ever observed in FRC history. For all present, including Bill Miller and Woody Flowers, it has to be the best weekend of our teams history.
Dick Hurban FRC 525 Cedar Falls, IA

Re: Boring Game
 

You have to keep in mind that the GDC designed this game with the spectator in mind. My dad remarked that this year's game was much more exciting to watch, because he could tell which team was which, and what exactly was going on.

The only thing I wish was different was that more teams hung. Other than that, I think this game is great!

Re: Boring Game
 

The game is terrible to watch in qualifications and will only get worse in the coming weeks but is the complete opposite in eliminations and is terrific to watch in the elims when teams actually try to win the game.
I can't wait til the off season events when the stupid seeding system is dumped (we have already talked about it for Ruckus and we will not be using the ranking system at all but will be doing the traditional W-L-T method) and you will play a game that is interesting for the public to see all day long that rewards teams for being good at it instead of punishing them if they are too good at it.

Re: Boring Game
 

After Friday at Kettering, I was starting to think that this game was a dud. A LOT of matches ended 2-1 or 3-2 and the game play was pretty ugly. I was starting to be disappointed. That all changed on Saturday, especially in the eliminations. After eliminations on Saturday, I started thinking that this might be one of the best games FIRST has come up with. My opinion might change as the year goes on, but as the robots get better, this game improves drastically.

As far as the bumpers go, the numbers can be a bit hard to read, I suppose. However, the color-coded bumpers is a HUGE improvement for watchability of the game.

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I agree, as an operator I can say that the crowd loved when anybody was scoring from zones 2 and 3. (yes it did happen...quite a bit). I agree however that alot of robots are similar in look, but in design and function, there is great diversity.

Re: Boring Game
 

In case you're wondering if his affiliation with the winning team is making him inflate his story, it's not.

I thought this game was going to be boring when there were no good robots on the field. Every GKC elimination match changed my mind. This game is fantastic. There are so many dynamics, strategies, breathless moments, and decisions that make every match absolutely intense. This is a smart, simple, yet wonderful game. Get the crappy qualification system out of there (cough cough IRI) and this is my favorite game.

I can't honestly see why I ever liked Lunacy after watching the GKC elims. :)

Re: Boring Game
 

Its funny. The scores were right where I was expecting them for week 1. You know there will be problems, you know the scores will be low, and you know there will not be a lot of strategy at first. While reading through the rules the first time, we could tell penalties would play a huge role. All this in mind, like Chris said, the game felt very slow on Friday.

After a nights rest though, everything changed. Saturday quals, the scores ratcheted up and the game was much better. Strategies began to be deployed, and defense was starting to be played.
Elims at Kettering were great. Although they went the traditional seeding order, they were still a blast to watch.

Re: Boring Game
 

After 11 years of participating this by far is the least exciting game yet. Even underpassing the infamous 4 on 0 year.

Re: Boring Game
 

I think you should change the thread title to "Really Boring Game"

It just doesn't excite me very much (make that at all).

The only match that I found exciting was the final- FTW.
IMHO this year's game and seeding point system makes this season look. . .
"Bad"

They should revive recent years' games.

They're beginning to Breakaway from the fun.:rolleyes:

Re: Boring Game
 

Week one play is usually boring until eliminations start. This year is no exception.

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Have to agree with Hurband here, mostly because i was on the field during these matches. ha. It was so excilirating that im still on a high right now. This game is the most exciting one ever put on by first.
Go 525, 931, and 2345.
Also kudos to 16,1625, and 2410 for a fantastic final match.

Re: Boring Game
 

after kettering...i have to say overall it is a boring to watch game it didnt really pick up untill about the semi-finals at kettering

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THIS GAME ROCKS!

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It is really fun to watch!

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I don't think that is is THAT boring.
Being behind the glass is different though, I am my teams "designated driver" and from my standpoint, the reason that it may seem kinda "boring" is that the new scoring system pretty much puts defensive alliances at a disadvantage in the long run. If there was more defense in the qualifying matches, then the matches would be a bit more hard-hitting action packed fun that I was expecting...

at GSR, there were quite a few good shots from mid field...
our robot scored about 10% of its points from mid-field, and one match, I got a lucky bounce over another robot and into the goal from far mid field haha

it is alot more exciting from behind the glass, too bad they couldnt come up with a way to let EVERYONE have that same experiance...

Re: Boring Game
 

I had alot of fun watching it at the Greater Kansas City Regional! Lots of robot - robot interaction fighting for access to the goals!

However the seeding system did suck.

~David

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This game is way better then last year, the low scores keep the game exciting just like Hockey and Soccer. So far I think the GDC got the point values right, elevated robots at Kettering decided whether or not a team won or lost. Hopefully in the weeks to come we will see more balls scored, elevated robots, and even a double suspension.

The eliminations are way better then the qualifications but that is expected. Also low scoring and slow matches is expected as well in week 1 of competition.

However, I do feel the FIRST dropped the ball on the ranking system this year (good idea on paper). Teams in Michigan should be playing to win instead of ranking because that is what gets you to States.

I think that the Michigan State Championship will be some of the most exciting matches this season and I am looking forward to our team's next week of competition.

-Clinton-

Re: Boring Game
 

Definitely not boring if you're a referee....

Teams are playing "two different games" this year. In the qualifiers its all about Cooperatition™ and ranking points. Although the GDC made the game very simple and easy to watch, the motives in the qualifiers are completely skewed. Trying to get ranking points instead of winning the game plus all the penalties and cards makes the game super hard to follow. Even for the people IN FIRST.

However, I challenge you to watch ANY of the regional elimination matches and tell me that they were boring. In the elims you have the best of the best all competing for the sole purpose of winning. THIS is the game the GDC had in mind...and I LOVE it.

Unfortunately for the first day and a half, watching grass grow is another way to waste your time.

Re: Boring Game
 

It occurs to me that having "two different games" has always been an issue. Even when the winning strategy was just "win", things always step up a notch in the elimination rounds. So perhaps this is something like the introduction of alliances: we can't prevent it, so let's make it mandatory.

During qualification rounds, the goal is often mostly to show off what you can do. Unless all you can do is defend, that's perfectly consistent with the seeding scheme this year. The actual qualification match play might not be terribly exciting, but so what? You get a chance to watch some interesting robots doing some impressive things without being distracted by the intensity of game play.

I think everyone agrees that the elimination matches are not a problem for spectator friendliness. That's not where the complaints have been directed. So instead of bemoaning the lack of action during qualifications, it would probably be more pleasant overall to simply adjust expectations and recognize that the qualification matches should be different. Winning is not the ultimate goal in those matches...though from what I saw at DC, and from comments I've read about other regionals from people whose viewpoints I respect, teams who played to win rather than trying to "play to seed" did end up seeding well anyway.

Re: Boring Game
 

Qualifications would be perfect, then, if alliance captains are looking for two robots adept at kicking soccer balls with no defense being applied, and little else. That's not what my robot's designed for, and that's not what I'm looking for.

I can see how "two different games" has, much more subtly, been an issue forever, but usually what won you games in qualification, be it scoring, defense, or whatever, would apply in elims too, at the very least.

Re: Boring Game
 

Scoring from 2nd or 3rd sector: very cool, plenty of teams could do it
Traverse City, MI: highest score of the whole competition: 9-2
Good place to watch another competion: 2771 Code Red Robotic's website, next competion is GVSU March 19-20 Friday-Saturday
Big advice: make sure you can hang, and shoot more than one ball at a time

Re: Boring Game
 

I personally like this years game. There is a lot of action, seeing balls flying around the field. There is also a lot of strategy within the game. I don't mind this low-scoring system.
There are a few problems I see with it. Despite how necessary the penalties are, this game is chock-full of them, and they can completely wipe out your score. There were a hefty amount of 0-0 matches because of penalties. This game also limits the diversity of the robot. Every year, I look forward to seeing the different kinds of robots, and their different methods of scoring using various mechanisms. This year, the only diversity I see is the way to hook onto the tower, or another robot.

Other than that, I feel that this is an exceptional game.