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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Do you like the seeding system? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83964)

Chris is me 09-03-2010 15:32
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 934593)
I still think it's rather easy, even from the stands (though I haven't watched a webcast) to identify which robot is which. And I've never met a spectator who didn't understand the concept of the 3v3 match, and why they should cheer for their robots' partners as well. Especially for those not concerned with an individual team (such as VIPs, visiting area school field trips, and event sponsors), it makes it even better.

I remember plenty of years when I'd be trying to explain what is happening to people in the stands (or scouting a match) and even having myself getting confused as to who is on which alliance.
I'm going to agree with Sean here. I'll show someone a 2008 video, they'll be completely confused who's on what team. 2009 was a step in the right direction, but the whole game confused them. 2010, my friend walks in during a webcast, "wow red team's kicking butt!"

Maybe 50% of the bumpers should be red / blue and the other half should have nothing close enough to those colors to confuse anyone. Or maybe some variant should be allowed (red camo v blue camo, red tye dye versus blue tye dye, etc). But as it stands now, we have a bulletproof identification system.

rick.oliver 09-03-2010 15:42
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
I think that you can credit (or blame) Travis Hoffman of Delphi Elite, Team 48 for the rule about red and blue bumpers. As I recall, he is the one who suggested the idea to F.I.R.S.T. on this forum the first year that bumpers where required.

GGCO 09-03-2010 15:49
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick.oliver (Post 934474)
Let me see if I've got this.

Loosing a close high-scoring match is rewarded more than winning a close low-scoring match.

Loosing a lopsided match is rewarded close to the same as winning a lopsided match.

The loser of a low scoring match that was made close by the winner committing many penalties is rewarded more than the winner.

The winner of a close, penalty-free match is rewarded almost three times as much as the loser.

I like this system; makes me want to play my best with the best to score as much as possible while going for the win.
This might have been what the GDC was originally thinking, but the reality that there are so many loopholes and cracks in this system that it ends up doing more harm than ever intended.

Maybe teams won't take advantage of the system, and I know that in Michigan our district/championship structure fixes the problems with this for us. However, I still noticed that at TC there were many teams who hadn't won many matches doing very well in the rankings.

Since we already know how to take advantage of this system, I think the real question should be "what is the spirit of this rule?"

Koko Ed 09-03-2010 16:02
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick.oliver (Post 934605)
I think that you can credit (or blame) Travis Hoffman of Delphi Elite, Team 48 for the rule about red and blue bumpers. As I recall, he is the one who suggested the idea to F.I.R.S.T. on this forum the first year that bumpers where required.
Actually you can thank (or curse) team 1038 who hadtwo sets of bumpers color for whatever alliance they were with in a given match.

Rangel(kf7fdb) 09-03-2010 16:13
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
I am a little confused on how the scoring system works. In the rules it says that when there is a tie, you get your score with penalties added. However, everyone is saying that a tie is like how you win. For example, if it was 10-10 with no penalties, then everyone gets 10. But what other people are saying is that if its 10-10 with no penalties, then you get 30. Which rule is correct?

Bjenks548 09-03-2010 16:20
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
if it was 10-10 all 6 teams get 30 seeding points, assuming there were no penalties. Because, ties act as a win, so your points (10) plus 2 times ur opponents score (20).

GaryVoshol 09-03-2010 16:21
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) (Post 934624)
I am a little confused on how the scoring system works. In the rules it says that when there is a tie, you get your score with penalties added. However, everyone is saying that a tie is like how you win. For example, if it was 10-10 with no penalties, then everyone gets 10. But what other people are saying is that if its 10-10 with no penalties, then you get 30. Which rule is correct?
Quote:
9.3.4 Match Seeding Points
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to the penalized score (the score with any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.
All teams on the losing ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.
In the case of a tie, all participating teams will receive a number of seeding points equal to their ALLIANCE score (with any assessed penalties).
9.3.5 Coopertition™ Bonus
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a coopertition bonus: a number of seeding points equal to twice the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the losing ALLIANCE.
In the case of a tie, all participating teams will receive a coopertition bonus of a number of seeding points equal to twice their ALLIANCE score (with any assessed penalties).
First bold, 1X of your score.
Second bold, 2X of your score

Total, 1X + 2X = 3X

Ether 09-03-2010 16:21
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) (Post 934624)
I am a little confused on how the scoring system works. In the rules it says that when there is a tie, you get your score with penalties added. However, everyone is saying that a tie is like how you win. For example, if it was 10-10 with no penalties, then everyone gets 10. But what other people are saying is that if its 10-10 with no penalties, then you get 30. Which rule is correct?
Here is a link to a seed-point calculator:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=934119


~

GGCO 09-03-2010 17:20
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Apparently FIRST heard/saw our concerns! Team update #16!

Martinez 09-03-2010 18:03
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Actually, I like the colored bumpers. Heck of alot clearer and easier to see then the Flags and not as clumsy as the rotating lights. I think part of the issue of identifying individual teams is more due to low robots in order to go through the tunnel then anything else...

Ether 09-03-2010 18:03
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
seed point calculator has been updated:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=934119

~

JackG 09-03-2010 19:27
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Moderators, is there a way to close the poll? When people who voted before the team update are voting against those who placed their vote after team update #16, it's no longer reflective of the views of the community.

DtD 10-03-2010 18:35
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Is FIRST kidding? They changed it between regionals... they already messed up the first run of regionals, why fix the others? :confused:

Oh well. :rolleyes:

Madison 10-03-2010 18:44
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackG (Post 934760)
Moderators, is there a way to close the poll? When people who voted before the team update are voting against those who placed their vote after team update #16, it's no longer reflective of the views of the community.
Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, we cannot close the poll without also closing the thread.

Chris is me 10-03-2010 18:47
Re: Do you like the seeding system?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtD (Post 935360)
Is FIRST kidding? They changed it between regionals... they already messed up the first run of regionals, why fix the others? :confused:
Make 4/5ths of FIRST unhappy just so the 1/5th already unhappy can have company?


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