Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

I disagree with basically everything in your post.

First: running up the score. Let's put this 26-1 blowout in context. It was a semi final match not a qualifier. The whole arena (including some opponents as quoted above) is cheering for them to put up a high score. Would you stop after 10 goals and have your whole alliance do nothing for the rest of the match? I think that would "show up" the losing alliance more than continued scoring. 469, 217, and 2960 put their full effort into engineering their bots to score and that's what their comp teams should put their full effort into scoring on the field. Who wants to see bots out on the field that aren't trying? When I think of running up the score in sports I think of taking unnecessary risks to embarrass your opponent while you are ahead and can just easily win. Personally, if I'm going to lose to an alliance, there is comfort in the fact that you are losing to the best.

National and regional high score is a goal that teams should strive for. It is a measure of your success and it gets everyone excited about robotics. When they announce a high score the arena goes crazy and that is not just the teams that got the high score. Isnt FIRST supposed to make robotics exciting?

Second: quality of their "lift": I am not sure exactly what you mean by this argument, but I am guessing you mean that they are expanding without elevating. <G30> allows them to expand to their finale config while touching their tower. It makes no mention (even in a blue box) of attempting to elevate. Would it make you feel better if 469 re-engineered their bot to make it to elevate at the last second? (even if it makes them "run up the score" more?) I'm sure if they had another 10 lbs to work with, their robot would also do that. Do you have the same feelings about Team 51 that elevates and redirects balls?

Third: interpreting Gracious Professionalism. One thing I don't like about these forums is all the posters that interpret Gracious Professionalism to argue with each other. It takes a good concept and makes it cliché or even negative. This being said I will refrain from interpreting Gracious Professionalism myself but I will propose a rule for everyone's consideration:

Rule: To interpret Gracious Professionalism on these forums, you must spell it correctly in your post.

Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

More than once this season, I have heard unique definitions of GP. If I understand your definition, they are not GP because they are doing their best.
Am I wrong?

Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

How is it against GP? You could make an argument about coopertition, but GP is just...no. One of the main parts of FIRST is teaching kids to think outside the box (or sizing box, in this case :P ). Anyways, this design was discussed on chief delphi. 469 just decided to try and implement it, and did very well. The GDC has even ruled in favor of 469's design multiple times, some not too early in the season so any team could have picked up on it and gone for it.

Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

I think that _perhaps_ one _might_ be able to present a case that 469's robot goes against the spirit of the game -- but that would not at all be the same thing as saying it is anti-GP.

(Don't get me wrong... I do *not* think that 469's robot goes against the spirit of the game, and frankly I think that you most absolutely can defend against them -- block in autonomous until you get the balls cleared away, and their strategy falls apart and it becomes a ball-starvation mid-zone dominance game. Don't block in autonomous and/or don't get the balls cleared away, and lose.

All I'm saying here is that if there is a legitimate complaint -- and I do not believe there is -- it would be in that direction. It has nothing to do with GP.)

Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

Yes, they seeded third after Regionals...

Re: How does 469 not violate <R19>?
 

I agree with you. They just build the best robot they could build, in the spirit of the game just like everyone else did. I am very proud of the team and all teams that devoted tons of time to their robots and all should compete with their heads held high. Enjoy your accomplishments and have fun!