Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

Thanks, I'm looking forward to it as well.

I'm still gonna defend strategy 1 though. If you prevent another team from moving balls into their home zone they can't score and therefore cant start the 469 cycle. And with strategy 1, even if they score 469 wont be in position to begin the cycle anyways, so it works out nicely. Just a thought though.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

Yeah but then you have to deal with us at the far and mid zones stealing your balls. This is a game where blitzkrieg strategies can work very well. Also make sure those balls you kick make it to far zone or we will get them to our zone when we do our bump crossing. If I remember right you guys only kicked the 1st ball out of the zone in auton, any chance of making a 3-ball auton? You know where the goal is, your robot, and the balls, as long as you don't clip any balls with your earlier kicks then you are fine.

I'm going to get to work with a 5-ball auton, most likely won't use it though because of worries about the robot flipping going over the bump without a human controlling it. Also need to get a dead reconing one done in case we lose sensors in elims. Time to do some motor throttle value logging.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

Although I wasn't there, my team saw them at Cass Tech. From the grainy video one our human players got on his cellphone, it appears that you can just sit a robot in front of and have it block the balls.

The other strategy I can up with was that the tower entrance in divided in half, where you can't cross the white line during autonomous. All you have to do is go there in autonomous, and just occupy your half so they can't get in. Then, because of the ramp they have, they don't appear well balanced so just push them over the bumps and they'll either tip over or if they don't they won't be able to get back without help. Only problem is that if it does tip over, then it'll damage the robot, the field and take up a lot of playing space.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

We currently dont have an auton, the programmers are working on a couple for Troy. We thought about a 5-ball auton, but decided against it for similar reasons.

I conceded to my team mates last night what I'm about to concede now, neither of my strategies are the best way to fight a 469/217 super team in elims, but they could do well against 469 in ranking matches, and are probably the best we've thought of outside of using two robots to tip theirs on the bump, which would give you guys plenty of scoring time, and possibly earn us a penalty.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

I'm sorry but could someone tell me which penalty might /wil be called if you were able to push any bot over bump or maybe into their own goal? I understand the whole," OMG,look what they did" reaction but if your in the finals you are there to win. Is this a legal tactic or would the entire alliance be dq'd? I will state again, fully understanding that this would most likely put that team in a bad light. This tactic, if no dqing, could be used in a tied final last match situation.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

While I see no real rules against these (assuming that the 'bot you are talking about is the opponent), <G36> may come into play if the 'bot you are pushing tips or gets damaged.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

Not really. I mean, repeated ramming hasn't been called for intentional damage at all this year, regardless of any damage caused. Only the normal "robot almost tips and team xyz gives them a nudge".

(disclaimer: I don't think it should have been)

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

I'll take a shot at penalties that "might" be called....definitely won't touch "will" be called because that is subject to the head ref's decision and what they perceive. I don't think you can put this one in a box very easily.

MIGHT: <G36> ROBOT to ROBOT Interaction - Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping over, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed. Violation: YELLOW CARD (oops, didn't know they would tip!)

<G38> Prohibited ROBOT to ROBOT Contact - Except as permitted in Rule <G37>, contact is prohibited under the following conditions:
a. Aggressive or intentional contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE. Violation: PENALTY; plus a RED CARD if the offense is particularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT. (oops, I tried to be gentle, they should have just gone on over!)


It is fairly easy for any robot with good traction to push another robot over the bump with these high bumpers so I'm betting it will be hard to get away without penalty.

On a slightly different note, I've not found a definitive answer to what happens if you are trying to keep a robot from getting to their tower in the Finale and they push you into their tower. Opposing alliances can't make you get penalties but if you hang tough you have stopped them from hanging. Any thoughts?

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

You can cross the line in auton, you just can't fully cross the line.. so just straddle the line and go in the tunnel.

I watched them compete and if you come up with a way to prevent them from setting up their robot in the tunnel, they can still beat you with their more than adequate kicker. So you can either lose 26-1 or you can lose 10-5 its still a loss no matter how you look at it.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

So would a g36 call make you lose the match being it is a yellow card but not a point penalty? I'm talking about the possible last match of finals.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

I still believe that the best strategy is that someone should stop them from getting there in autonomous, and once the match begins, you could just 'push' into a corner or something. Skyline had a good defensive robot that could do it. Only problem is that Skyline's robot tips over too easily without a wall behind it and doesn't go forward or back, just sideways.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

When you include bump into this scenario we get the into grey areas of
Does <G37> nullify <G38>? Yes IMHO
If so does <G36> still apply? Again yes IMHO
However, <G36> is only a Yellow Card and no Penalty as opposed to Red Card and Penalty with <G38>. Will that be an effective deterrent decisive elim match if an alliance has no prior Yellow Card?. Also pinning rules still apply if this takes a more than 5sec.

This is kinda like a YMTC question.


<G13> (Causing Penalties) should nullify the protection penalties. If the robot that was pushed into the tower is pushing back, then a pinning count should be started on the opposing robot that pushed a robot against field element (Tower). I haven't really seen this count happen in matches but its hard to tell sometimes. Just because its the FINALE doesn't mean pinning rules no longer apply.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

sooo i watched the video and saw that the ball seemed to roll off their robot and then down a bump, why not just park in front of the tunnel and drive back and forth, directly stopping the balls instead of blocking the goals.
Also, a high traction robot such as 359 (if they could fit under the bump) could theoretically push them out from under the tunnel or at least mess up their angles so 469 can't score directly

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

The former's a good idea. The latter has been rejected several times, since 469 attaches itself to the tower in several ways.

Re: Team 39 building 469 stopper solution (Available in Las Vegas)
 

469 uses 2 bots in the offensive zone in order to stop the first strategy. One bot scoops up balls that didn't reach the goal and scores them, the other interferes with any opposition robots attempting to play defense. If you feel you had a robot capable of executing this strategy despite the efforts of two opposing robots, go ahead.

The 2nd won't work.