Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

Let us also not forget that it was a 217 mentor that designed the very first drivetrain gearbox in the kit of parts for all teams to use. Who remembers when those drill motor trannies were the only drivetrain options for so many teams? Without a kit gearbox I wonder how many rookies and "have nots" would be moving at all in competition?

Without Paul's design then and AndyMark's work now (and all the work Paul, JVN, Andy Baker, and others put into the WHOLE community for the past seven years or so - kit gearboxes are only part of the story), I wonder how much BIGGER the gap between 217/148/1114/45/etc and the rest of us would be?

These people and teams routinely take the time to make us all better, closing the gap on purpose, then they still routinely kick our butts. We certainly are all better because of them!

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

Actually, when we were practicing with 217, one of the things that a mentor had said was; "what if everyone was this good? Wouldn't that be amazing?" I thought so. If every team worked as hard as possible to be as good as 217, or 1114 to name a few, FIRST would be even more amazing than it already is. 217 and others try to close the gap on purpose, to make everyone better. The things they do never cease to amaze me.

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

We all have our opinion on the "mentor built vs student built". Does it really matter which is right as long as the students win. By the way, receiving or not receiving a trophy at the end of a competition is not the indicator of a winner. I personally believe in having my students build there robot. You can ask any of the students on 2719 and they can verify that I really don't know much about how there robot runs.

That being said, winners of a competiton are those students that come out of an event proud of what they did at the competition and the way they handled themself through the rigors of the competition. My team finished 37 out of 38 at Traverse City and 31 out of 40 at Ann Arbor, but I believe they were all winners at those events. They changed there robot in the middle of an event and never missed a match and constantly worked hard on their robot and kept high spirits throughout the event. Why would I classify this as a sucess? The praise that I received from other team mentors and parents on the conduct/work ethic/spirits of my students was amazing. Last thing said "MY TEAM DID NOT WIN ANY TROPHIES BUT THEY EARNED A LOT OF PEOPLES RESPECT." They are winners. So who cares if a robot is student built or mentor built.

Everyone needs to give Kudos to 217/469 and the other teams who stratagy and design was the perfect match for the way this years game is played and drop this stupid thread. :D

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

#1 It was Team Macomb: Mac Knights (1999) and Team Macomb: Royal Fusion (2000-2001) [Sorry for nitpicking. It's what I do]

#2 This story exemplifies the main reason why I roll my eyes at teams complaining that some veteran teams have it sooooo good :rolleyes: I remember some years when I'd never think 217 would ever be able to compete with the likes of Hammond or Wildstang, but the dynamic that they have - Dedicated teacher support, consistent and strong team leadership, mentors that can all communicate their ideas and build to their strengths, and strong fundraising - all are keys that have helped The ThunderChickens be the success that they are.

I see 217 as a Red Wings sort of team - Everyone clicks into their own roles, tremendous scouting, great coaching & front office, and a team that inspires others to one day be the superstars that they are. You shouldn't fear them, and on the other hand (please) don't worship them, because there's nothing magical about 217, nothing that any other team can't accomplish. What you should do is try to emulate them, because they are a team that really gets the meaning of FIRST, and THAT's why they're successful.

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

While, since this seems to be the place to bash 217 this year I will join in the fun. I'll come out and do it with my team information there too. ;)

Those jerks spent 2 hours talking to myself and 2 other KU students and bragged about everything on their robot. They talked about construction methods, programming techniques, and even the problems they had and how they fixed them. On top of that, they took 30 minutes telling me how I should get more school support for my team.

Oh, wait, those were good things. Yeah, I spent nearly 3 hours talking to Mike Copioli about every aspect of their robot as well as how their team is organized. He was willing to take time the week before MSC to help someone who he had never met before. Yup, this is a team that sounds like they are the opposite of the goals of FIRST. You know what, I could care less if the Thunderchickens go out and win every single event they compete at. What makes the great teams great is their willingness to share and help everyone around them.


Thanks 217, you guys are real jerks. I'm sorry these guys all think you are nice.
(For anyone who has not picked up on the sarcasm of me calling them jerks I am not insulting them. The Chickens are an amazing FRC team and I know for a fact they will help anyone they can. As my brother says below, Thank you guys for taking the time to talk to us.)

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

They're so unamerican sharing all their knowledge with us...that's completely against what FIRST is about, that's straight up communism...

Thanks Mike, you were a real help today. See you at MSC.

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

I'll go out on a seemingly unpopular limb and say that I disagree with the way some teams do business, mostly the have-lots as someone called them I guess, but I'm not about to say they go against the "spirit of FIRST" because that's interpreted by each person differently.

I will say that personally I feel like its more of the "spirit of engineering" to do as my team did (the only way we could, being rookies) and build our robot without super advanced tools (hacksaws, miter boxes, and eventually a chop saw) hold everything together with a conglomerate of pop rivets and bolts, and jury rig things until they fit and worked like we wanted them to. This isn't to say I think the other teams are bad people, or the students are lazy or anything like that, simply that in my mind as my personal opinion, that is more in the general spirit of engineering than using lathes and mills and outsourcing parts, or whatever the case may be. This doesn't mean anybody else does it wrong or violates the spirit of first, but those are my 2 cents... that as a general rule, we as students get a better taste for the idea and principle of engineering through doing it the rougher, more handmade, unsophisticated way of doing it... personally I was very very proud of our robot, which though not as shiny or nifty as 217 by a long run, was simple and fun and decently effective from how we did.

Again, no bashing here, just disagreeing with their practices due to my personal feeling on the spirit of engineering in general... that said, 217's bot kicks tail and they have a great thing going this year.

Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens
 

You may have confused engineering with tinkering or manufacturing. In a typical company, the engineer sends designs to the manufacturing group, who builds the parts. If the manufacturing group has an issue, the engineer is called up to help them fix it. This is the way a lot of engineering is these says.

There's a spotlight here that says something to the effect of: "The difference between a tinkerer and an engineer is that an engineer can tell you the result before you start."

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that there is a different view of the spirit of engineering.