Behavior at the competitions
 

I was at a regional last week and saw something that floored me.

The team sitting in front of us, who shall remain nameless, had several students playing games on their laptops or on Nintendo DSs during Dean’s speech during Saturday’s opening ceremonies. Some of these students, who were wearing team shirts, were sitting right next to adults in team shirts. None of the adults told them to pay attention or put the games away.

Is it just me or are more and more students looking at FIRST as a right instead of a privilege? Back when I was on a team behavior like what I described would get you in serious trouble. I think some kids are beginning to look at FIRST as “just another club” as opposed to the life changing experience that it really is. I understand that you get out of it what you put into it and that these kids are only cheating themselves, but I am still appalled to see such blatant disrespect towards anyone in FIRST let alone Dean.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

No offense, but Dean's speeches aren't exactly the most thrilling. They deliver incredibly relevant content, for a very good cause, but they're boring.

Just because another team does not value FIRST as a "life changing experience" like you does not mean they intend disrespect.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I have cought some of the students on our team doing this in the past. We made comments to them and they would put their games away. I think it was just 1 or 2 students that are now gone, and it seems to be better now. Also I find with a slightly smaller team its easier to control because you can give each student a task to perform.

This does really annoy me as well, regardless of who, where or what it is going on, its just rude.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

One thing I would caution you with: don't judge someone by the shirt they wear. You don't know if it is a family member or friend who is wearing the shirt. Yes, they probably should have put them away, but that is their coaches job and we are not to judge them.

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Agreed, but if you get the chance to talk one on one with both Dean and Woodie like I have the conversations are very fun and entertaining but relevant to whatever the topic may be.

At the same time it is common courtesy and those teams should realize that they should at least try to be gracious and professional if nothing else lower brightness and at least sort of act like your paying attention.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Personally I don't see this as being an issue at all. The students you saw may or may not be active members on the team. I have personally been on teams that brought students who had spent little or no time participating in the program before competition but who wanted to come for the same reason they would go to any of their High School's sporting events, they are looking for a day of entertainment and they want to support their friends. As a mentor from a small rookie team I have to say that I really appreciate these students coming to the events and supporting the team. We do make sure that every one representing the program (guests included) know that first is different than regular sporting events (no booing or heckling etc).

I have no issue if a student is using a laptop or playing a game during speeches and opening ceremonies, as long as they are not disturbing those around them (ie, not standing up or playing with the volume on). I would much rather have disinterested audience members entertain them selves than have them disturb others by talking, or fidgeting.

Quite frankly Dean is boring. I love the message that he is delivering but he is not a great public speaker. It is important that these students hear Dean's message but there are plenty of opportunities to deliver it to them through the program.

I am not offended by them quietly entertaining them selves, and I am sure that Dean isn't either. Having lectured and presented to large groups numerous times, it doesn't bother me if people are not paying attention, it is more important to deliver the message to the people who want to hear it. If the message is important enough (and Dean's is) then it will eventually get through to the others.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I can tell you that our rules are no games at the competition, they are for the bus ride only. Can we watch every student? No. Do we sometimes forget? Yes. Take it as an isolated incident and think nothing more about it.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I think along the same lines as Craig.

Also, I'd much rather have my students Playing Nintendo DS, on their Laptop, Texting, etc... quietly than making a disturbance because they're bored with Dean's Speech and they have nothing to do.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I am a bit saddened that we live in a day where actions like this are becoming "the norm" and "acceptable". I've been out to lunch 3 days this week, and at every one of them, someone at the table pulled out their phone to check their email (I was the ONLY other person at the table). Call me old, but I hate this and refuse to do it. If I am spending time with a person, I am spending time with them, not the 560 other people I can access via the world wide web. I think to so many people parenting is plopping their kid in front of a computer or hand them a DS and expect those devices to parent the kid for them. WAKE UP WORLD. We are creating a generation of awkward antisocial kids that don't know how to TALK to eachother, or even more important how to LISTEN to others... if its not a text or a tweet... how on earth do they interact??

This statement just floored me. I will agree Dean does not have the most exciting manner of speaking. HOWEVER, he is the founder of the program, a billionaire that so many look up to, and it is a privilege that so many of us get to meet him, interact with him and listen to his ideas. Many other billionaires wouldnt give me the time of day... I got to visit Dean's HOUSE! I am HONORED to have had the chance to be involved in something he and so many other great engineers are involved in. How on earth can we "spread the word of FIRST" or "fix what's broken" if we cant even encourage our students to be respectful enough to sit and listen to him speak?? It will never BE a life changing experience if they can't listen to others, listen to what the program has to offer. ITS 40 MINUTES of your life... do you really need to be playing video games?? MY grandmother would have slapped me upside the head if she saw me do something like that!!!

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

A lot of teams aren't very rigid about behavior at competitions. While what other teams do is up to them it doesn't paint a very good image when we have guests visit us during regionals or championship. It's a great contrast to our team as a whole though. Guests see the general behavior from such and such team and compare it to how our team members behave.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Yeah, Dean's speeches can be boring. I admit I don't always listen to every word of what he says but playing videogames is outright rude.

Seconded, I can understand if your phone rings and it is your mother but to just fiddle with your phone because the person you are with is boring is rude.

Just to be clear, I DO smack our students when I see it. I got permission from their parents and everything.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I’m not saying you have to hang on Dean’s every word. I’ve heard Dean’s FIRST speeches since 1996 and still enjoy them but I understand this may not be the case for everyone. However by the time you reach high school you should know how to sit still for a few minutes and listen to someone speak. It’s a matter of respect. Whether you find Dean fascinating or boring, he’s the founder of FIRST and he deserves our respect. If your football coach or dance instructor or boss were speaking to your group and you were playing a game chances are they would find that completely unacceptable, so why should FIRST be any different.

If the kids were in fact friends of team members and not on the team themselves, then they still need to realize that once you put on a team shirt you will be seen by others as being on the team. Good, bad or indifferent unless you are clearly under the age range, let’s say six years old, people will guess you’re on the team.

I’m not trying to bash these kids, I’m just making the point that this does happen. I wish it was the first time I’d seen something like this, but it’s not. Maybe I look at the world of FIRST differently because I’ve seen it change my life and the lives of countless other people around me. To each his or her own. All I’m saying is that gracious professionalism is not something you turn on and off based on your interest level in what is going on around you.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Thank you.

I always look forward to hearing Dean in person. His speeches are never boring. If people actually listened to him, they would see that they are always different and quite profound.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

My team had problems with this too at our last competition. The "no games at competition" policy is strictly enforced by both the mentors and the scouting team. Scouting team enforces it heavily because we're the head students in the stands during competitions. If the games become an increasing problem (as in telling the same person to put it away multiple times) the object used for gaming will get confiscated until the end of the day. However, the policy of no games in only enforced while matches or the opening ceremonies or speeches are going on. During our lunch breaks its ok for students to play games and such untill matches start back up again.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

To be fair, I'll admit the opening ceremonies aren't that enthralling, but they also are over pretty quick. My generation's attention span must be even shorter than I imagined if we can't sit still without something to entertain us for a whole 15 minutes.

I was in the pits for the good majority of our first district, but from what I heard the biggest problem for us seemed to be people playing games during the actual matches. After spending the Detroit district* up in the stands (or more accurately hovering by the rail watching the bots) I can't imagine why this would ever be seen as boring. With so many amazing and creative bots I was almost never bored watching the games. Between games they play so much amazing dance music I can't see why people would even be sitting down.

FRC competitions are fun people. If you honestly need a video game system to keep you interested, you're ignoring a tremendous experience.

*At which gaming systems were a non-existent issue.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

When I was a first year student and didn't really get what FIRST really was, I was one of those students who would sit with the DS. I have come to really think of it as the new student tier. The new students just need to see the spark and enjoyment of FIRST in all ways. Once those students really get involved with their team, the need to use a game system during a competition goes away. If you see a student who is playing a game system at a competition, don't frown at them and walk away. Maybe talk to them and ask them about their opinion of this years game or ask how did they contribute to the team. As for family members who come to competition, there really isn't much that can be said about their actions.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I agree with Al. Our team knows that games and iPods etc are off limits during competition. First of all, in the pits... they are dangerous...having your ears stuffed with music is a safety hazard.

In the stands.. our team knows that they all have jobs to do...they need to be doing them if we are to be the best we can be.

As far as Dean being boring... that isn't any excuse to be playing games in the stands...

You can do whatever you want with your team... but when our team is at an event we are there competing...and everyone has a job... scouting... cheering... etc...

If you think that because you have a large team that this is difficult... our team has 42 student members...and they all stay busy...

Games and ipods are for travel or non-competition times in their hotel rooms... I ask students if they see any football players on the sidelines using ipods? or basketball players....
No they are into the game they are playing and they are putting in effort even though they are not on the field.. they are in the game...
Our teams knows that scouting is what can win a regional.

Our students are in the game...

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Straight out: My generation is very rude. From my observations, the ones after mine are becoming increasingly more rude.

I have made an attempt, since I became a mentor, to try to encourage my students not to behave in this way. I constantly drill into my students' heads that every time they are in any way representing the team, they are representing their sponsor, their school, and themselves. To remember this is the best way to truly overcome rudeness and inappropriate behavior, at least in my opinion. When you learn to respect yourself and those whom you represent, you lessen rudeness.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Team Paragon has a strict "electronics-free zone" policy. As a team we realized that students using electronics anywhere in the competition portrays a bad image on the rest of the team. At the build site, electronic devices act as a distraction and can often be a safety hazards. All around the site, we have posters that say "electronics free zone", and even some fake devices posted up saying "don't let this happen to yours". At the competitions, we feel that even talking on a cell phone looks like the student is lacking an interest in what is going on. I know that last year I was safety captain and I was coordinating my schedule with a few other people who were in the pits through texting while I was in the stands. I am also very involved in my team's spirit, so I was standing next to a girl who was screaming, attracting the photographers for the website. Sure enough, I get a call from my mom that night who was watching from home asking why there was a picture of my texting on the BAE website. Needless to say, I was mortified and began fully supporting the rule. I think it just looks better as a team, and a big part of FIRST is imagery.

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I feel like if we had more spirit people would pay more attention :/

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Team 1583 has team 'norms' which are student enforced. You become a team member by demonstrating respect, motivation, spirit,and gracious professionalism among other character traits. It's not showing much respect or being very gracious to other teams by playing video games at a regional while they compete. Btw, we've won the gracious professionalism award the past three years in a row at the Denver regional and it wasn't for helping others play video games.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

As someone who takes the FRC extremely seriously, the whole attitude of FIRST being "just another club" also scares me. That attitude will eventually lead to that team's demise if it doesn't get corrected soon.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

was it pokemon... I can understand if it was pokemon, those games are awesome!

But seriously, that students would consider doing this at all during a comptition has me baffled. The FIRST experience is so unique and special, and you're waisting it playing videogames?

Walk around the pits, collect buttons, examine others robots, scout, meet new people, and for heavens sake Cheer For Your Robot! There are so many teams that just sit and watch quietly well their robot is playing! Coming from a team who got other teams mad at us for standing up and cheering during one of our matches at Atlanta (Apparently, we were blocking their view, Sorry:rolleyes: we ended up changing to a less viewblocking area further to the side.) I want to see people excited at robotics comptitions, because its an exciting thing!

If people want to play videogames while their at a FIRST comptition then something is seriously wrong...

my 2 cents

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I couldn't agree with you more. I am baffled by the number of people who would rather play video games or just talk in the pits rather than cheer for their team or another for that matter.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I do agree that FIRST being "just another club" is a grave statement, but not everyone has an interest in robots. Yes, we are supposed to raise awareness of robotics and engineering, but it just doesn't click with some people. I take some FRC very seriously as well, but I respect the fact that some people don't have an interest in engineering, only if they have been previously introduced to engineering.

Getting back on the topic of video games, there are certain times when the power-switch needs to go off. The only times where I would game is during lunch break, on the bus, or in the hotel (when we aren't doing anything significant). About Dean's speeches, I will agree that they are boring at times, but it is disrespectful to be engrossed in a video game more than the speech of the founder. =/

My two pennies.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I generally don't think "oh, what huge brats" when I see kids on other teams playing DS or texting during a long opening speech, and that their actions can be used to extrapolate that they don't appreciate FIRST. I think it's a simple combination of lack of awareness, the somewhat hyperactive nature of the average FIRST student, and the culture of today that makes this thing happen rather than an intentional effort to disrespect speakers.

Consider that people these days do stuff like livetweeting, texting, dynamic communication, and internet reference lookup on their phones and it'll look a lot less bad. I'm sure if someone looked at me at Kickoff and saw me typing a tweet about it, it wouldn't look the best.

To clarify, though, I don't approve at all and think students should be corrected, and that's not something I tolerate on 2791.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

From our very first year we set standards that all students must strive to adhere to. In the early years (pre-handheld games - yes this did exist) you would often see other students playing cards in the corner, getting friendly (you know what I mean) and other activities we as leaders - mentors of our team felt were not in the interest of our team. We had rules regarding these behaviors - a Code of Standards.

Sorry but IMAGE is an important part of life, and image for your team is important.... Students..... you never know who is who at an event and who is watching you.

There was an incident told to me many years ago by some of my students - short version....
While on an elevator with several other students at a hotel and a adult the other students (not my team) started swearing, pushing and plain being rude. One of my students spoke up and asked them to respect their team and FIRST finishing it with "Cool it". The response was "Mind your own business". As they left the elevator the adult asked to speak to my students. He thanked them for their comments and praised them for doing and saying what is right.

Later in the competition when we were getting an award.... The lead judge smiled at them and said " I remember you".

True story.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I agree with you in every aspect. It goes something like this, put those kids in a class room with a teacher giving a lecture. Now I can say that those same students not paying attention because they are playing a game or something, they are doing the same thing to the teacher. It is a mind set and mentality that is becoming more common in students that they feel as though they can do whatever it is they want. To me this is saddening because in my eyes, it is becoming worse and worse as time goes on.

I must admit however, I may have drifted off into a day dream while still looking awake during Dean's speeches, but I did not seem to be pre occupied like some individuals are.

I have also seen this same behavior, and this really floors me and honestly saddens me, while the national anthem is being played.

Honestly, I don't know what to say about a situation like this, but if it was up to me, the students would get a stern warning and it wouldn't happen again. It seems like blatant disrespect.

Just my two cents. Feel free to comment.

Cass

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I am going to disagree. There is a time and a place for spirit. When people are making speeches they shouldn't have to be holding a T-shirt cannon to hold the crowd's attention.

The issue here is just a matter of respect. I have tuned out during long speeches and visuals do help but I do try to pay attention and often enjoy the presentations.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Firstly, I'm 17, and a leader on my team.

Secondly, if I saw anyone (including other leaders) ever representing my team in that way at an event, I would swiftly whack them upside the head. I've done it before, too.

For some reason, my generation enjoys testing boundaries. I, personally, find that disrespectful.

We honestly require that no one use their phones in the pits, and if they need to use it, they walk outside the arena. I told a kid to do this in Utah, it was snowing outside. He waited to make the call ;)

The parenting bit isn't necessarily true, as I've met completely ill-behaved students whose parents (and their tactics) are very similar to that of mine. I've been told by my parents that i've been the easiest kid to raise...i'm one of 3. I don't know how much that really matters, but it's very much about the mentality of the student.

I just saw that on the top of the page. It's true, we're a humongous family. If my sibling was doing that? A swift handling of the situation (physical or not ;) ). Honestly, I think of the situation like this: No talking during grace. It's something which may not be riveting, but is still very important, and tradition.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Wow... that's all I can really say to above statement. =/

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Now THAT is behavior that would get the student a stern talking to after the anthem was finished.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

On my team, after experiencing a few competitions last year where people were very fond of their gameboys, we put a no games rule for the pits and stands. In the stands you are there for two main things; scouting and cheering. If you aren't doing either than you best find something productive to do.

In the pits we have an even stricter rule of no electronics (besides the robot of course ;)). The only laptop we have is the scouting laptops, and besides that the only electronics we may have is a phone.

The reason we don't completely ban phones is because they simply haven't been an issue. The majority of team members at an event are there for the competition, and do not feel like texting persons while there. If a text is to be sent it is to be done discretely.

So far I have not seen any phones or other electronics this year :)


Although this policy may change after seeing my drivers out on the field right before a match texting!

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

This goes hand in hand with Beth's statement about respect.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I agree. They aren't the least bit exciting and it seems like he says the same thing at each competition. I mean, it would be a little more respectful for them to put the games down for a few seconds and try to pay attention, but I don't think they deserve disrespect for playing video games. It can get boring there and I don't really have a problem with it.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Yeah it would. I was absolutely appalled.

Cass

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

A lot of this can be avoided/headed off at the pass with forethought and a plan in place. The plan involves spending time teaching the members of the team and those that travel with them, the rules of conduct and expectations that go with wearing a team shirt, affiliating oneself with the team, and participating in the events. If the event is already in process and the team doesn't have a clear understanding of who they are and what they represent - then don't be surprised when people embarrass themselves and the team. Nothing can be taken for granted in today's culture where self-respect and respect for others is ignored and discounted. Mr. Martus is right - image is important. Self-image is very important. It's up to the veteran team members to impart the importance of conduct and respect to the members from the very first day. Dean Kamen and Dr. Flowers are going to have a front row seat when observing the teams who show respect and the teams who do not. The teams that show disrespect will have the opportunity to stick out like a sore thumb in the stands - pretty much like they do on an elevator in a hotel.

Jane

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I was talking about during matches. We have several members on our team who don't watch unless we are playing, and even then some do not care. It is sickening to me. I find every moment of the competitions to be extremely exciting.

I agree that a lack of respect is the cause for not paying attention during speeches. Then again I have also quit paying attention during Deans speeches. However it was due to the fact that at Traverse City the system was screwy and you couldn't understand a word he said and at Detroit it may have just been me but it seemed too quiet and the screen was too dark.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

This year my team has had similar experiences with being on DSs and phones and whatnot else. I was in the queing area during Dean Kamen's speech at the Midwest Regional, so I am not sure if members of my team were specifically doing that during one of Dean's speeches. I must say that my team shows frustratingly low amounts of energy, enthusiasm, and team spirit which I admire greatly in other teams.

My personal opinion about such behavior is that as someone who has little to no control over most of my team's behavior (believe me, I tried), I wouldn't like to be the "uptight jerk" who takes away your DS, but I also would like it if my team and other teams with this issue showed a little excitement about what are, in my humble opinion, the three greatest days of every year.

There was a student on my team who played his DS through all of the elimination matches. When I told him to just watch the finals without his DS, he refused and afterwards told me that he had payed attention through the entire match. I was almost tempted to walk over to another team's area in the stands and cheer with them after that.

On the other hand, one of the alumni from our team who graduated last year returned as a volunteer this year. Before Friday morning was over, he had Dean Kamen's signature on his forehead and his volunteer shirt. How I wish he were still on the team...

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Honestly? Sickening? Seeing someone who has different interests than you sickens you?

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I happen to hate competitions, I don't like watching matches. I attend between 3 and 7 events a year and only watch a handful of matches. Different folks have different interests, for some of us matches are not that interesting.

Eric, actually, some of us just enjoy the challenge of building the robot. Yeah, seeing it compete is nice but I would rather be going through the pits learning from what everyone else built.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I don't think that it's seeing someone who has different interests. I think it's seeing someone who has different interests, but pretends that they have the same interest, then when they're where they want to be (or don't want to be), they show that they don't really care. If you're not going to care, why go to the trouble of joining the team, building a robot for 6 weeks, and traveling to the event, just to display your not-caringness to the world?

Not watching your own team's matches while you're at the event is, well, like traveling to your favorite sports team's biggest home game, getting a seat in the stadium, and then not watching the game, only the mascot(s) and other stuff of that nature. You may as well be home paying the bills or mowing the lawn or shoveling snow.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Disregarding during ceremonies or in the pits, I will often be engrossed in electronics. Why? I update the team twitter constantly. I have the latest standings and scores before they are updated at the competition itself. I text friends at other competitions to ask how it's going. I have scores from other competitions, keeping track of specific robots. While usually this might not look very good, it's useful for us as a team to have someone connected, and I honestly don't see a big problem there.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

When I was a student, I was so on my gameboy during speaches/opening ceramonies/closing ceremonies. I don't do it anymore.

I don't resent those students that chose to not care about the speaches and discussions. And I don't know how to combat it. Telling students to "stop that, put that away" only makes it worse. It has to be something you deal with ahead of time.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

That's true. However, if you're in the stands during your team's match, you obviously aren't in the pit. I don't mind missing matches if I'm in the pit--especially if I'm working or talking to teams.

But if you're in the stands and you aren't watching matches that your team is competing in, then I think you have a problem. You at least want to see if it works, right? If you don't want to watch the matches in the stands, then you may as well stay in the pit area and keep talking to other teams, if that's possible (read: mentor may say, "You will watch all of our matches"), instead of going to "watch" one of your team's matches and instead not-caring it.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I'll agree in that case, just wanted to be clear that there are many things to do at an FRC competition that some people think are more important than watching matches.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I would like to add something I saw today that really bugs me more than anything mentioned above. When the National Anthem is being performed, please remove your hats. Especially when you are one of the singers. It is plain disrespectful.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

We had this issue at our regional a couple weeks ago...it has been my accepted "Miss Manners" rules that women can continue to wear hats during the Star Spangled Banner, in both the audience and the presenters.

One of my team members was in the robotics choir that sang and was told by the event coordinator to remove her hat; she did this out of respect for an adult but asked me about it later. My ruling: Hats must be removed by men, but can remain on your head if you are a woman.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

The established rule of etiquette is that "fancy" women's hats need not be removed. This is because of the time and effort necessary to put them on again. Simple hats -- fedoras, berets, baseball caps, and the like -- do not enjoy this privilege, and should be removed by men and women alike.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I also agree with a woman's hat staying on if - it is part of formal attire, but also have to take exception to any female wearing a "prop" or spirit type of costume hat though. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask or expect.

I get more annoyed by the often excessive chatter during the National Anthem. I've been to many events where you could hear a pin drop during another country's anthem, then the chatter picks up during ours. :confused:

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

This is what the accepted rule is. Fancy hats that are Pinned as part of an outfit can remain. Everyday hats, and the Costume hats that had me irritated this morning should be removed.

That being said, I am still very glad that many FIRST students know the National Anthem, and will perform it. It amazes me some places I go and how our youth does not know the National Anthem.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I have learned many things from FIRST and I will include a lesson on manners. I will revise my opinion of women wearing hats during the National Anthem, to: Women wearing fancy hats (with a hat pin) will remain on, while other less-fancy hats and costume hats will be removed.

Thank you CD and FIRST.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Related to post, not to thread.

The most awe inspiring moment at any FIRST competition was the Flint FLL tournament (I can't recall which one) last year. The AV equipment cut out 30 seconds into the Anthem. Without missing a beat the entire auditorium picked up and sang the rest of the Anthem. Sorry, I thought it was epic.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I was thinking about this thread yesterday during Dean's speech in Boston. My godson was there with family, and he is 10. Over lunch he was playing games on his phone, and I wondered if I would see a repeat of this thread during the awards ceremonies. Dean gave a very typical Dean speech, but my godson sat there quietly with his head on his mom's shoulder and paid attention the ENTIRE time. He didn't fidget or whip out his phone, and he has never been involved in robotics or even seen an event before. It was a simple matter of knowing when to show respect. I was really proud of him :)

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Another thought about the National Anthem (s), our National Anthem (not sure the policy in other countries) was written and intended to be a collective experience of patriotism and national pride. It is actually considered BAD MANNERS to stand quietly during the singing of the anthem. Unfortunately, our culture has allowed the anthem to turn into a performer/audience situation, which it was never intended to be. It is actually against United States flag code to applaud for the anthem.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I must respectfully disagree. It is not wrong to stand quietly during the National Anthem.

§301. National anthem

1. Designation. — The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

2. Conduct During Playing — During rendition of the national anthem —

1. when the flag is displayed —

1. individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

2. members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

3. all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

2. when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I really prefer not fussing over details in the Anthem. Does someone's singing, silence, posture, and position really determine the level of one's respect for the country? It's no big deal either way, really, as long as people have good intentions and put in an honest effort. If they directly don't observe the anthem out of protest or whatever, then try and be subtle and don't make a scene. Pretty simple...

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Yes it does, at least to me, and I am sure other people. However, this enters the discussion into Politics and Beliefs which we are kindly asked to refrain from on CD, so I will leave it at that.

In the grand scheme of things, I have noticed that FIRSTers are far and above on of the most respectful groups when it comes to things such as this, and I think that says a lot to the sense of professionalism that FIRST has instilled in us all.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Standing at attention implies standing quietly.

I don't know of anything in the flag code that says that. I think you might be confusing the National Anthem with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I've seen things in my travels from regional to regional these past couple of years that by far surpasses ignoring Deans speeches (like openly using abusive language towards other teams, team members when the team loses and generally ignoring arena rules - the barrier is there for a reason not to jump over) but the kid barking out " WRAP IT UP!" in Boston would have probably seen his last moments as a member of my team if he pulled that stunt.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

This goes back to inappropriate conduct during the speeches. I remember back to when I was a rookie and a student on the team I now mentor. I always thought that Dean's speeches were not interesting but I was never disrespectful. Now that I'm older, I find his speeches much more interesting and captivating. I think that part of the problem may be that once students see one person do it they'll do it as well. Once someone gets away with it once, they expect to get away with it all the time.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

The team may not take action against the student but the team itself risks being punished for the students idiotic and selfish behavior by other teams who will now not want anything to do with them because they are perceived as endorsing such boorish behavior.
As I have pointed out to students on the team before: alot of students and mentors who came years before them work many endless hours to build the X-Cats reputation up to the level that it is to have it torn down be them because they can't be bothered acting like they have sense.
Any student who really feels like having a real life Facebook status moment and just blurt out the first thing that comes into their mind should just do the right thing and take off the team shirt and withdraw from he team before dragging them down after all the hard work they have already put in. It's the least they can do.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I agree. This was for me the only bad moment of an awesome event.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I'm sorry, what happened in Boston?
*slaps self* $@#$@#$@#$@# my curiosity.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

As Dean Kamen was speaking at the end of the event someone yelled "Wrap it up". I just found it very disprespectful towards a man I respect very much. He has earned the right to speak as long as he wants.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Why would someone even think of doing that?
I hope they got kicked off their team.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

The horrifying part is, he was making a speech about why FIRST started to give out the Dean's List award, and how we should honor and celebrate the amazing students that FIRST has as a part of our big 'family'.

As a member of the Boston Regional Planning Committee, I am utterly disgusted that one of our special guests at the regional was treated so poorly.

I applaud Dean for how well he handled being so rudely interrupted- I was given the honor of presenting the Imagery Award at Boston in honor of my grandfather, and I probably would have either burst out crying or said something very un-gracious if someone did that to me.

I don't care who it is- Dean, Woodie, the President of the United States, your best friend, or just some hobo off the street- you treat all human beings with respect. That was just plain rude and I'm so sorry that it had to happen at such a wonderful regional.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I guess that even at a regional there is one in every crowd. Everyone else I met and talked to there was great.I have so many good memories from this past weekend. That will be what I will remember

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Because they think FIRST is about the robots. I hope they figure out soon that FIRST is about inspiration and the robots are no more important than the file used to take the edges off them. I hope they have many years in FIRST and can learn what it is really about.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I'm not understanding this statement, Andrew.
Why would the robots in FRC be no more important than the files used to take the edges off of them?

I was never more proud of anyone than I was of a 2nd year student who stood at a whiteboard for the better part of a build day, doing the math. He was using trigonometry and he was using calculus and he was as happy as a clam. That's just one example of the valuable opportunities and moments of inspiration that the robots provide for FRC teams.

Talking with the mentors who have volunteered their time for the conferences at the Championship is inspiring. Understanding the impact that the engineers have had and will continue to have on their teams and those people who attend their conference presentations is, quite simply, a mind-blower.

The time and money invested in the robot build and the robots competitions is no small thing on a small scale or a large scale. The value and reach goes way beyond the importance of a file used to smooth an edge - although I can think of about 20 haikus highlighting the symbolism.

Behavior at competitions is totally under the direction and leadership of the team leaders and what they choose to role model as leaders and as a team. It is dependent on them.

Jane

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Well in response to them being friends of the team

So in my Rookie Year I've heard a lot about first, while what goes on in my team is a different story (:D), what I always hear at the community level in FIRST is that this is like a sport.

Well in sporting events (even at the HS level) you as a friend or just supporter of the team often wear the Shirts and Gear of the Team. However does this make these people part of the team playing the game?????

I'm pretty sure the same applies for Robotics. Just my $0.02

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I don't know about other teams, but 1511 takes our "gear" pretty seriously. We make sure that anyone wearing it understands us, and understands GP. Its great that people come out to support us, and we suggest they wear red and black or give them our pins, but unless we are sure they can help us keep up our spirit and our image, we don't put shirts on them. Other teams can do as they wish, but when you are up for big awards like Chairmans, every person in your shirt/gear reflects on your team. It can be as simple as telling the chaperones who hold your seats the concept of "we want to be able to sit together, but we arent allowed to save seats, so its important to be gracious to other people & teams"... to making sure the parents, friends and sponsors that wear our shirts to events really understand what the team is about.

I've heard and understand many stories about assumptions, from the guy on the subway who isnt paying attention to his own kids acting up, and someone who says something stern to him, only to realize his wife just died... so everything always deserves a second thought, but I encourage teams to realize that their team gear reflects their team image, and to do what they can to make sure anyone wearing it is going to portray what they want to reflect.

A side story is that we were pretty cramped in the stands in Boston and one of our kids climbed over the seats just as we noticed a judge walking up the stairs right next to us. He was embarrassed for himself and the team, even though it wasn't anything major. He knew he was in team gear and reflecting our team, and felt badly that his actions might have looked negative to others.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

would he have felt bad/embarrassed without the judge present?

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I usually would not care about something like this, but I feel it should be heard.

On Friday and Saturday, the team sitting behind us in Boston repeatedly said "I hope team 11's robot breaks" (verbatim) while our alumni, current members, mentors, and parents were all there to listen and not say a word.

Now, we've never had something this rude said to us, and it was a blemish on our regional experience. The most ironic part was being paired with said team for eliminations. I was a little bitter about this by the end as the team did not show respect while we showed them our respect by sitting down during our matches when asked politely.

There were also other very obnoxious members of teams sitting opposite of us. If I was on their team I would just feel embarrassed about a student yelling obnoxiously and purposely at every little part of Dean's (and others' speeches). It was very rude when the special guests and speakers (who were amazing by the way) had to deal with ridiculously rude behavior from immature students from local teams.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

I have to disagree with you here. There is one thing that must be an absolute on every team. There MUST be respect between the students and the mentors. If there isn't, there are major problems that need to be addressed immediately (that respect needs to be shown in both directions).

In your example, the solution should be very easy. The mentor says "put it away". If they do not, they are removed from the venue. We've made it very clear to team members after an incident a short time back where several members missed scouting assignments because they were up playing video games.

#1 No video games allowed at competitions.

#2 Any student that is troublesome or does not follow directions will be put in a cab for a ride home, at his parents expense. Some of our venues are 4 hours away from our school.

Now, we've never had to enact it, but while our students know they 'run' the team, they also know where the ultimate authority lies. Of course, I never expect to have to deal with it again. We now have a team system whereby the team leaders (students) deal with team problems with the mentors support, and it's already proved to work brilliantly.

We have had to talk to several folks to explain that while a particular person may have been a student a year or two ago, they are now a mentor and will be shown every last bit of respect that position includes - especially not arguing with them. But it's all good. It rarely if ever happens twice.

Re: Behavior at the competitions
 

Im saying that the student should realize that the robots are a means to an end, a tool to inspire with. Dean is one of the most inspirational people in FIRST and to yell "Wrap it Up" at him shows a complete misunderstanding of the goals of FIRST. To me it screams that he wants to just see the robots, he doesn't realize they are a tool nothing more.