Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

This is just speculation:
217 scored on themselves in order to boost 469s seeding score above others (team 33) in addition to boosting their own seeding score. In a previous match that ended 5-5, 217 showed that they could play defense on 469 at the tower. The one sided match was more of a show of goodwill towards 469 and 217 is hoping that if 469 is the first seed they will pick them. Of course, even without the help, 469 and 217 are close teams and I there is a very good chance 469 would have picked them anyways (they do work well togeather).

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I think we'd have done the same thing. Actully, I think we might do the same thing tomarrow! However, we probably won't because that will keep them ahead of us in seeding, and we can't have 217 and 469 togeather again! You're to good togeather, lol!

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

Who i would like to hear from is the other teams involved. Not the drive teams but their fans and teammates in the stands. I am sure the drive teams agreed to this but did they agree because of who asked or did they really understand the point system. There were alot of young teams at the event that may be, how should i put it, overwhelmed by greatness.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I would bet that 217 weighed the differences between competing against 469 and losing 20-10 or scoring with 469 and losing the match 25-0. If you look at the seeding points for each senario, the best option for 469 is #1 the best option for 217 is #2.

#1 - 217 gets 20 seeding points. 469 gets 45 seeding points. Thats +25 for 469 widening the gap between 217 and #1 seed.

#2 - 217 gets 25 seeding points. 469 gets 30 seeding points. Thats only +5 for 469.

Doesn't seem like senario #2 is goodwill towards 469. But, rather a great strategic move by one of the smartest teams in FIRST. Great move 217!

* EDIT #1: Senario #1 assumes that 469s partners were capable of priming the pump to start the cycle.
* EDIT #2: If the 6v0 strategy was used to help 469 seed #1, then I do not support this strategy. I do not agree with teams manipulating the system to help another team seed higher, based on agreements made regarding alliance selection.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I may not like it. I may think the GDC made a collossol mistake in setting up the scoring system this way. I may think it makes it incredibly boring to watch too, and creates a whole host of other issues.

However, these are the rules, and you're simply seeing smart teams use them to their advantage. In point of fact, if you had been at Cass Tech, you would have seen the same teams doing essentially the same thing, but in reverse, driving their points totals up so that they could seed high and pick who they wanted to.

There is no rule against doing what they're doing, and the GDC KNEW this could be the possible result when they wrote it. I do certainly hope we don't see teams attempting to stack the deck at States by running scores up for eachother, but I wouldn't doubt it will happen.

It's legal.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

The teams are playing within the rules, and doing what is best for them and for their alliance.

Lets say 469 is RED.

Some are questioning BLUE scoring for RED, to boost the RED score and help the BLUE allinace seeding points. But, there is nothing to stop the RED alliance from scoring for the BLUE alliance as well, which would boost the RED seeding points. Has anyone tried that?

That would be an interesting match.....

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I've been busy with at my own regional, so I haven't watched any of this district. However, it's obvious 469 is doing much better in qualifications this time around than they did in their previous district (where they were shut out multiple times and lost four matches).

What's the difference? Are teams buying into the 469 system more now that they've seen what it can do? Are the robots just better at scoring at this event (especially with two more weeks to work on them)? Are fewer teams attempting to defend against 469 and just attempting to maximize their rankings? Some of each? Something else?

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

Hate the game, not the player.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

469 seemed to have technical difficulties at Cass tech. Thier ball return system seemed to malfunction and not extend in numerous matches. When they are forced to survive on their drive system and kicker, they are a far less dangerous robot to play against.

I can only (selfishly) hope this pattern of strategy regarding scoring FOR 469 and not for themselves continues. All it would take is 4 or 5 goals by the opposing teams to change these 25 + 5 = 30 point matches in 25 + 10 + 5 = 40 point matches. It's keeping their scores reasonably sane. It makes logical sense to - if they get locked into place in auton, score with them and not against them, since they're likely going to smash you anyway if they have even a single good offensive partner.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

It's kindof strange... we seem to have a huge gulf at Troy between what I'd call "good" scoring teams who can control the ball, kick, score, etc. and "other" teams that can't seem to do much of anything - some not even moving. To quote one of my scouts, "They're another team that doesn't work 75% of the time and then spins in circles the other 25% of the time when they do." Surprisingly, there's a lot of that, even though it's week 4 and everyone's second competition. My best guess is that some might have just gotten their bots working today. I applaud them for persevering and getting out there and giving it their all. It just makes for some very strange match scores and results depending on how they are grouped together.

Another thing we noticed personally was how many penalties there were! I think we lost 4 or 5 matches today because of what I'd call "rookie mistakes" - things you see week one but not usually week 4. Reminds me of last year when people continued to enter the orbit balls "over" the side outposts all the way through States and even into the Championship. We've taken to reviewing the basic rules such as "don't bash the opponents tower repeatedly during the last 20 seconds please" with anyone we're not really familiar with. We just try to remember everyone's trying to do their best and heck, let's just go have some fun with our robots! Besides, Dean Kamen came and signed our robot and control board so we win. The end!

Hope that answers your questions a little.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

217 has had a lot of experience with 1114, makes sense that 1114's UNAMERICAN ways would start rubbing off. ;) (Ok, seriously, if ANYONE takes offense to this, it is a joke. I agree completely with johnr that scoring against yourself is wrong. I will take it a step further, it is THE most OFFENSIVE thing that you can do to your opponent. Give it your all or don't even show up is my opinion.)

Trust me, I understand the strategic value of it. I am actually a little irked with FIRST for taking, imho, a wonderful game and saddling this ranking system on it.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

This is awesome! Killer Bees are 3pts ahead of 469 for the #1 seed and they play each other in the last match.

If the Bee alliance does nothing but block their own goals, they can preserve their 3 point lead over 469, regardless of what 469 does (assume no penalties).

If it were me, I would park in front of our goals, and let go of the controls!

What an incredible senario. I am interested to see what happens.

EDIT: Nevermind. Forgot about 5pts for winning match. Bad Strategy.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I wonder why that didn't happen? Seems like the smartest thing to do, unless you know that 469 wants to pick you.

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

Wouldn't they need a 5+ lead on 469 to offset the 5 qualifying points the winner gets?

Re: Troy Athens Regional
 

I guess we both missed that, whoops.