Chief Delphi - How involved are your mentors?

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Re: How involved are your mentors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets (Post 943704)

I'm just curious how you could tell, by looking at the robot, how much of it was built by mentors. The bit about fluid design and effectiveness almost seems to imply that these are signals of mentor involvement. I find it hard to believe that student built robots or 50/50 robots wouldn't be able to meet this standard.

I disagree. Mentors are teachers. Some of them have been doing work in engineering since before any of the students were born. They know more about the engineering process than the students. That's just a simple fact. I usually see mentor assistance as lessons via example, demonstrations you might call them. These are experiences to learn from, not to frown about.

Mostly the way to tell who built it to see who maintains the robot while its in the pit, if it is not the students, they likely didn't make it. This is a generalization of course but it seems to accurately reflect what I have seen the past three years.

Also I firmly agree to your second point so long as the line between assisting building/designing the bot and building/designing the bot is drawn. That's my issue.

Re: How involved are your mentors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz (Post 943520)

We pretty much just work together as a team.

Exactly. Mentors don't really do much actually labor on our team, if a job needs to be done and there is a student who has the ability to do it, and a mentor who knows how to the mentor gets the student and teaches the student. Not really 50/50 because we only have a few mentors but more of a 70/30 student/mentor

Re: How involved are your mentors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 943694)

Every 90+% mentor robot I've ever seen in FIRST is a piece of crap. The teams that know how to build good robots are the same teams that know how to build good teams, and they engage the students every step of the way.

This made me laugh.

I've seen a few teams since I've started in FIRST where the robot was clearly build by a bunch of mentors because the students are nowhere to be found in/around the pits... And they're usually not good robots.

Back on subject though, on 816 the mentors prefer to step back and let the students do things, if they're able. When a student is not able to do something by themselves then one of the mentors will work with them side by side.

Re: How involved are your mentors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoc'sil (Post 943772)

Mentors are a wonderful necessity for a team, they just shouldn't be the ones making the bot.

Actually, I think along similar lines as you. I just add one word to that sentence.

"Mentors are a wonderful necessity for a team, they just shouldn't be the only ones making the bot." (Also possible to use "primary" in that slot.)

I've got no problem with a mentor piling in to work. I have a problem if the mentor displaces a student for no apparent reason--major screwups are a reason--and then doesn't have the student stick around and watch, or assist. Or if the students are locked away from the robot by the mentors.

I REALLY don't have a problem if a student pushes a mentor out of the way to do some work, and accepts advice as they do the work. (I have a problem if the students completely block the mentors out, too.)

Back when I was in high school, my team was about 50-50. As an example, there is a picture (it is on CD, but not in CD-Media) of a student drilling into one side of a sprocket. A mentor is on the other side applying cutting fluid. Another example: A mentor didn't know CAD. Two students did. Guess who did the detail design and the build drawings for the parts they were working on? Yep, the students. Guess who made sure they got it right? Yep, the mentor. But on other components, mentors took the primary lead.

Re: How involved are your mentors?

As a mentor I try to follow:

Quote:

Watch one, build one, teach one

with the students. Intent is to make sure they have the skills and are able to spread them to other students. And you will see interchanges between roboteers and I: "Mr Foster can you show me how to do X? No, but I showed Chuck and he can show you, lets get him" and I watch Chuck show how to do the construction.

Having said that, if we are short handed with students then I will build/ make/ assemble robot parts. I'm not going to let them miss ship date because someone isn't there. And the only time I <gently> push a roboteer away from a robot is when they are about to or are doing something that isn't safe.

I would like to see a 100% roboteer designed and built robot, but we have a problem that the roboteers that have the level of skills to do that graduate and go off to an engineering college. (I've tried starting a "Super Duper Double Senior" program, so far no takers)

So to summarize:

Quote:

Our team is run 50/50 with mentors and students working hand in hand on ALL aspects of the season. We've found when students get to work as peers with "real" engineers, magic happens. This really allows our students to get the most out of the FIRST experience. (JVN)