Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

But the fact of the matter is that so many teams aren't like them. Didn't win but did really well. 330 in 2009, 968 in 2007 and 2009, 40 in 2007 and almost in 2009, 854 in 2007, 610 in 2009, 1626 in 2007, and more. These teams all would have done far better than the other teams there.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

So basically, under either system you won't get all the best robots.

So why not go with the system that lets more people experience the FIRST Championship?

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

There is no problem with allowing teams to get the experience, but it is frustrating when some teams experience this EVERY year and do not perform. A low number of slots being set aside for "experience" is fine, but this has crowded champs with low performing teams.

And you don't get what I'm saying. :rolleyes: That is all I will say on the matter, if you would like to discuss further PM as to not derail the thread.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

The current system doesn't. Look at Kims Robots post. Her team goes every year (because of the experiance), but since the numbers say only 1 team in 4 gets to go every year (less than 25% due to space limitations) that means that 3 of the 4 years her team is taking the spot (and experiance) of another team, just because her team has the money onhand. IE less teams going.

Again ... if we call it a championship, then lets set up a system such that the best-of-the-best get to the championship ... and if it's a buy-your-way-in then lets label it as that (an exhibition).

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

This is only true if every team has the money and will to prepay for a Championship slot, which it isn't. The whole reason 1511 CAN go every year is that not enough slots were taken in the period where teams who did not go the previous year registered.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

They're apparently not taking anything away from teams who want to go who didn't the previous year, as that registration period has never consumed every Championship slot.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

There are teams who have qualified who have not gone because they have no money to go.
So even if they have a dominant robot it doesn't guarantee they will be there.

You forgot being a member of the FIRST Hall of Fame or a FIRST legacy team.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

Approximately one third of the teams attending the Championship event do it without "earning" an invitation. I don't think that counts as a flood.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

The open spots at Championship serve an important task, and I certainly hope they never go away.

They help expose teams who might not have the best robots to the Championship experience, as we all know it's nothing like a Regional. This can whet a team's appetite and start a self-perpetuating effort in said team to improve their team to increase the chances that their team can win a spot in future seasons. A team who never has this opportunity might never know what Championships is like, and thus might not put in the extra effort to try to win their spot in. Since FIRST is about the Inspiration, giving all teams the chance to be inspired by the Championship should remain a top goal. Thus, we must always set aside a quantity of open-lottery positions.

Adding additional awards to become "Championship Qualifiers" is moot, because everyone will pick the one award or category that their own team is really good at.

As for the quality of robots at the Championship, even if every team there has to win their way in, there will still be mediocre robots. Just because a team wins RCA or EI doesn't necessarily mean they'll have an Einstein-caliber robot.

And one final thing: it may be impossible for some teams to ever go to the Championship (even if they win) unless they register during the open period. Why? Some schools and organizations have strict annual budgeting rules. Waiting until said team wins a spot to decide to go may not leave enough time for the school administration/etc to approve funding for Championships. On a similar token, it may be much cheaper for teams looking to attend the Championships to register during the open period to take advantage of better airfair/hotel rates than struggle at the last minute to arrange details.

What does this mean?

The "other teams" you speak of have just as much chance to raise money and register during the open lottery period as every other team. Or if by "other teams", you mean the teams that may have won Technical Awards or finished the Regional as finalists, c'est la vie. Winning these awards, sans any additional ones that qualify for Championships, should serve as a "you're on the right track, now work a little bit harder next year" reminder.

This may seem contradictory to my earlier comments about the open lottery at first glance, but in reality it's anything but. They're two goals that serve different needs: one to inspire teams (every few years) to work harder, and the other to reward the teams that have worked harder.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

There would be more of a struggle in planning of going to Nationals if teams had no idea they were going until 2 weeks before. Here in Michigan you have no idea if you qualify for nationals unless you know you are the best of the best until State Competition which is the weekend of this week. A ticket for chairmans isn't decided until now for example. This leaves not a lot of time to get arrangements for plane tickets, hotel bookings, and transportation.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

An "if I were king of FIRST" post:

Instead of a "first to click" system I would propose a points/merit/time based system and let everybody know what this order was in say June.

The points in this system would be similar to Michigan's championship points structure with the individual match winning points removed (but leaving in alliance selections for playoffs, playoff match values, and winning bonuses). Also added to the structure would be the number of seasons since your team has been to championship (by any means) cubed (this is a massive bonus for teams that haven't been for three years or more and that's the point). Teams that go to more then one regional (and all MI teams) would get the highest scored regional (or district) they attended that year. Points are awarded post-season and the order doesn't change midseason.

In May / June each year FIRST would release "The List" which would list every team that has been active in either of the last two years in descending points order. Teams would then have until a fixed date (Oct 15?) to submit to FIRST a decision on pass or play their open bid to championship (teams can change their minds up until the deadline, after the deadline a team may change from play to pass but not the other way around). One week after the deadline a revised list of just the teams who elected to use an Open Bid would be released. The top teams on the list (i.e. the ones with the most points) would get their bids right then and there and those who are leftover would become the waitlist.

If a team wins a merit based bid they are removed from the list for open bids and it opens to the next team in line. This is important because of the next bit:

Every team that uses an open bid to get in to championships would have their point total reset to 0. This would happen before the current season's points are added so they would still have points from whatever awards they earned in the current season and that would place them ahead of Rookies (who could, under this system, apply to championships from the bottom of the list) and teams that have been inactive for two years.

It allows teams to know in the spring what their chances are of getting an open bid and lets them make decisions about it besides hoping that their internet connection doesn't go out on the wrong day.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

Just curious because i do not believe i have ever heard of it mentioned but what are FIRST Legacy Teams? like what does that status mean? and who are they?

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

now that you mention it. Why does FIRST call it a Championship?

but once they qualify (which they have every year). there should be slot that opens up where a team on the waiting list can get it.

I'm curious if FIRST allows teams to get on the top of the Waiting list instead of the AQ Bid. considering you wouldn't have to pay immediately, this could be a advantage for teams that struggle to get money for the event in October.

FIRST Legacy teams are teams that were around since 1992.
FIRST Hall of Fame Teams are teams that have own the Chairmans Award at Championship.

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

A FIRST Legacy team has competed every year since the beginning of FRC in 1992, (I believe).

Re: Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?
 

Yep.
These are the ones I can recall for now.
20.45. 126. 131(?). 148. 190. 191.