1114 vs. 469
 

Who do you think is a better robot and team? and why?

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Completely different designs and strategies.

1114 is a scoring monster and one on one vs 469, 1114 will win every time.

469 is an alliance bot. The better their alliance players are, the better they are.

In the qualification rounds where alliances are random ... I'd probably take 1114. In the elims where 469 will have a good scorer to assist, I'll take 469.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

In my opinion, 1114 is the best "traditional" breakaway robot out there. They score with the best of them (from any zone), they are fast, they can push, they have great drivers (as always it seems), and they are one of the fastest hangers I know of. Their robot is surely as well engineered as any robot out there. However, I'm a HUGE fan of creativity. While I do not doubt that 1114 was creative in finding ways to play the game as best as they can, 469's strategy (and execution) is amazing.

One-on-one, 1114 would take 469 almost every time. But in the elimination matches, if 469 has an offensive powerhouse on its alliance (and I don't see how it wouldn't), 1114 would be hard pressed to score fast enough to be competitive.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

i would not mind either one on my alliance. In the qualifications i would take 1114 just because of there ability to score and hang consecutively. And i would have to say i would take them over 469 in the finals. Even though 469 will be with a good alliance almost as they have been with 217 twice and won both i think 1114 would still have a great alliance and be able to hang and score well to beat 469

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

As Dan said, they're different strategies. 469 with a scorer will dominate...

Put 'em together we're all screwed... (Hint for Atlanta)

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

why do I get the really scary feeling that that alliance is inevitable?

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I saw some strategies last weekend that were effective at keeping 469 out of the tunnel. Granted, they can still kick from the middle, but I don't think they would be able to keep up with a team like 1114 mid-fielding. 1114 would have to play 3v2 to keep 469 out of the tunnel... but my money is on them.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Were they really that effective though? Teams had 2 weeks (or was it one?) to develop a game plan for beating 469, and they won MORE matches this past weekend than they did at Cass Tech.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Only if they end up in the same division.

Problem I see, is that the likelihood of 469 ending up in a division without one of 148, 217, 1114, 2056, etc. is basically zero.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I didn't say they had strategies to beat 469… They were just able to keep them out of the tunnel for a while. I don't think there was enough "high caliber" teams at these district events to challenge 217 + 469, even when 469 was playing like a normal robot. This may change when the dynamic of teams at the event changes, though.

It will be interesting to see how the MSC plays out. 469 hasn't played at an event with 67 yet.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

It saddens me that there is so much focus on us this year. It detracts from other teams that put just as much, or more effort into their robot than we did. They may have taken a more traditional approach, but these teams are all still innovative and creative with their robots. 33, 67, 148, & 217, just to name a few, should all be commended for having great robots, each as different as night and day. (Except 148 & 217, but that is beside the point. ) Even newer teams with only a couple years under their belts are doing well. 2612 seeded at both of their events and made it to the finals at Cass Tech. They have an amazing robot this year also.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Your forgot 341 -- They have won two regionals now, and have a robot very similar to 217.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I don't know who you're thinking of, but it's not 314. 314's robot is nothing like 217. They have a scissors lift mechanism.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

That would be team 148, The Robowranglers. Their robot is similar to 217's. Whilst they have not won two regionals, they definitely have the potential to win another one, which will probably be at Lone Star.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Maybe he was referring to 341, who has won two regionals and appear to have a similar two roller ball magnet.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Whoops. I fixed it.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Your post is very gracious and terribly sweet. But you should ENJOY your team's amazing accomplishment and all the attention. Congratulations!

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I know that this is gonna be a shocker to Karthik, but given the choice, I'd pick 1114 hands down. Why? 1114 defended can still score 10+ goals. If 469 gets successfully defended in autonomous, they are down for the count (which Killer Bees semi-successfully proved at Troy last weekend). With a deep enough field, such as Great Lakes or Atlanta, a serpentine pick could easily play defence against 469 and clear the middle zone of balls in the first minute. Once that happens, it doesn't matter if 469 locks in at that point, because two good scoring bots can have at it at that point, with that 3rd bot assisting from the middle. 1114 on the other hand, you'd have to defend all 135 seconds, and still get your robot run circles around.

For Great Lakes? Now that 33 has exploited the 469 weakness, I would take a high scoring pair over one high score + 469. Nobody has been talking about HOT, but they with 217 or 33 or 51 could run the board against any 469 combination. Championship? Look for a 16/33/51/1114 combination to beat the 217/469 pairing in Division Finals (Prediction - they'll mostly end up in the same division, other than 67)

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

You also have to look at your last paragraph from both teams points of view. if 469 is picking and sees 67 is a better scorer than 217, Why would they pick 217 then? I also think the scorer would rather score exclusivly within their home zone instead of waiting for balls to come from the midzone. IMHO, you only have to watch the first 20 seconds of a match to decide which stratedgy your going to use. if 469/scorer get a 3rd pick that can play and harrass teams in all three zones and kick the ball away from teams (86 comes to mind). then that alliance will be in the finals.

for me personally, I would take 1114 easally in the qualifications, but i would take 469 just over 1114 in the eliminations. But I wold be glad with either in either situation.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

469 would most likely pick 217 because they've done it in the past and won. At Troy 217 had issues the first day of competition and seeded fourth overall (behind 469, 33, and 226 in that order) and was still chosen by 469. Your thinking of Alliance selections as a far less political matter than they actually are. (Also, I'm a little disappointing our robot hasn't gotten a shout out yet, we beat 33 in a qualification match, but had three penalties which put them ahead by one point, then tied them 10-10 three matches later. 226 is definitely a contender this year.) The strategy 33 attempted at Troy with 910 will not take down a 469/217 power alliance. You would need two mid/far zone robots to be able to compete against 469 in eliminations.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

How do you know 217 wont be picking 469?
O____O

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

From what I know of 469, I'm positive they would pick the best robot available, whether it be 217, 67, 33 or anyone else. Frankly, I've found that alliance selections are far less political than many conspiracy theorists seem to believe.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I agree with Karthik that alliance selections are based off of the best robot available, but I also think team history can make a difference. Team reliability is one thing that can factor into alliance selections (from what I've seen, I'm not claiming this is what 469, 217, or 1114 do). Maybe some teams don't do it, but I know if I had two robots that preformed the same on the field and one of them was 217, I'd probably be more inclined to pick 217.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Not much love out there for east coast teams on your top bots lists? We had first hand experience with 1086 & 25 and you would be wise to have them on your radar.
Back on topic... There seem to be around a dozen teams worldwide that are clearly out performing the rest. That puts around 3-4 per division. Put 1114 and any other of the top bots on the same alliance and 469's alliance has a problem. 1114 can sit on defense and they are fast enough to break the cycle. Even if they don't break the cycle completely they will clear enough balls from the zone. Its 2v1 going the other way and 1114's partners will run up the score.
If I had a top bot and the first pick with both 1114 and 469 available, I think I would pick 1114. Truthfully, I might make the same choice with a top scorer other than 1114 as well. It is a tough choice for sure.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I think it depends on the scarcity of the division you wind up in to determine what better picks are. If there are a dozen or so elite scorers that aren't making picks in a division, I'd pick 469 or a similar bot and take my chances with an elite scorer being left for the second pick. If there happen to be only a couple of elite scoring bots, it would depend on compatibility but I think it would generally be wiser to pick the elite scorers in the first round because there is no chance one would be left over in the next round.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Until 71 is officially eliminated from the Championship elimination rounds, my money is one them. Always.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

That made me think immediately of this scene.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

That picture doesn't do it justice. The video shows that sudden barrage at the beginning of the final period to the full extent. Never beat against the Beast.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

With how the MI States are going right now, I'd pick 67 over 469. I'm not sure what they do or how their robot works, but they're consistently averaging 15+ points regardless of who their partners are.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

I wouldn't say "regardless of who their partners are". They have had atleast one of 51, 469, 27, 1250, 2771, 70 in each of their matches. Those are some pretty good partners, and when great bots work together the scoring capability of each is increased tremendously (this is true for everyon as this is a teamwork game). Combine that with a great atmosphere for scoring like MI State qual (prob not going to see it topped till IRI) and the result is amazing. Heck they dont even have to worry about scoring for their opponents because they are doing fine on thier own. HOT has to go against NC Gears next, the winner could jump 469 to the #1 spot.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Well as for myself, i have to put my money on 1114. The havent lost a match this season, they are on there way the there third championship win most likely, and they are good no matter what zone they are in. There drivers are some of the best out there. I think the power house alliance would have to be Simbotics, Winnovation, and the kil-a-bytes.

Re: 1114 vs. 469
 

Not sure I'd give 1024 in a "Powerhouse" label this year. Other years maybe, but not this year.