Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I'm currently working on a watergame drivetrain. If you can call it a drivetrain... I'll upload when I finish.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I like the idea of mobile goals. It makes the game interesting. They do not have to be pulled by other robots but maybe have the goals be able to move.

I would like to have a game where you can hold and posses and carry multiple balls. This year was fun and I liked it but I think it would be more fun to design something that can do more manipulation of balls. Maybe not even balls but some odd shape making it even harder to manipulate.

I do not want to get rid of autonomous. That is one of my favorite parts of building the robot, programing autonomous. The programers have some interesting ideas for autonomous next year, even though we don't know the game yet (anyone know how to make a GUI in Labview?)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

What about a game that was not on the floor {example:

Metal bars run width-wise along the field. The bars are about 1m (1 yard for you Americans) apart and 2m-3m off the floor. Robots start on raised platforms (like the bases of the towers this year), and are not allowed to touch the floor. There could be one (or a few) goals on each end of the field, and the aim is to get the playing pieces into the opponents goals. If you were an advanced team you could move from bar to bar to collect balls, but rookie teams could just travel back and forth along one bar, playing defense.
}

How's that for throwing a wrench in your drivetrain?

As an added plus it is themed after a game, FOOSBALL!

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

How would we get the robots on the bars if they're 2-3m off the floor?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Pull ups, just like the end game this year: or there could be a rule that you could start on the bar, within the space extending vertically above your platform.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

It could be like a giant spiderweb with I-beams to ride on and hang on to. Maybe it would popularize controls based on polar coordinates.

or, maybe the robots could be giant stationary arms.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

How about a tennis-themed game where robots have to move balls beyond the opponent into a goal that is about 27' wide (width of field)? There would be a net in the middle, and penalties given for any robot that hits the net, and there would be multiple balls on the field. The balls would have to be retrieved by a robot- sort of the way you would with empty cells in Lunacy, except they would be placed in on the floor.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

maybe for auto for something like that the robot can only hit the ball from behind the baseline or whatever represents the baseline like the serve that starts a tennis match

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Maple syrup game, corn starch game, Jell-O game, butter game, condensed milk game, gatorade game. Maple syrup game gives too much of an advantage to the Canadians actually, nevermind. Water games are so overrated.

Am I close yet?

.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

That sounds like PONG. For you youngsters, that was the first video game available for the public to play. I would say that for this year, it would be too close to breakaway, but does hold some promise for a game down the road.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Maybe a capture the flag style game, where the robot must collect a marker from the opposing alliance's side of the field and return it to their side of the field.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

that would actually be pretty cool! lots of action, but they would have to be possibly more strict with the rules than for the Breakway game due to the bot-on-bot contact with defense/offense. Still an awesome concept though :D

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I'm calling either "Mars" related, and/or green technology to be incorporated into the kits...somehow

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Many of us had to put up with Mars in our younger FLL days, please lets not re-visit those memories.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Capture the Flag would be cool, here's my thought if we were to go there. In the center of the feild there could be a maze where the walls would be high enough you can't see over. Therefore having to use your Camera feed to get through. :D

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

How about motocross racing relays? The bots would have to pass a baton and race around a 3 dimensional course. The obstacles could be a hill climb, bumps, salmon pegs, straight away drag.


Roy

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

It's an interesting idea, but there would have to no autonomous due to that its a race, and only 2 robots are moving at once. The matches would be longer, and since your idea is close to the racing view of Overdrive, I doubt we see it next year, but maybe in the future.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

One of my guesses is that this year it will not be a sphere game piece. Even years tend to have balls while odd years don't (the orbit balls weren't perfect spheres)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

footballs, its finally gonna be the year they use footballs

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

That WOULD be interesting. The VEX Robotics Competition game in 2009-10 used footballs as the primary game object. Clean Sweep was a fun game but -- you can trust me on this -- footballs are evil.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

And so is the GDC. I vote for footballs!

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

hmm... Footballs would be cool... I could create a 2 axis throwing arm like the PING man.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

There are two ways of looking at whether they will use spheres again. 2008, 2009, and 2010 had spheres as game pieces, so it is likely that the GDC will try to avert from using spheres as game pieces. I would not be suprised, however, if the game does have spheres as game pieces next year; spheres are extremely easy to work with. That's just my P.O.V.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I want Frisbees, they are fun, but I don't like the kind that are flat of have holes in the middle, they are unstable (usually)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Well I am thinking in news and sports for my information. Last year was the lunar landing anniversary. This year is the World Cup. Next year there is nothing that sticks out to me yet. Although, if we are looking for answers I am pretty sure we should check them first or second.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

seeing as how the past couple of years honored the X anniversary of an event, i just did some googling and found that 2011 will be the 2500th anniversary of the Marathon, the international year of chemistry and the 100th aniv. of Marie Curie's nobel prize for chemistry, AND the 150th aniv. of the Battle of Gettysburg if these spark any ideas

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Well then, chemistry seems to be a trend. I wonder what FIRST could do with that? (that's not even sarcasm: I really do wonder how FIRST could involve chem with a robot competition)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Two battles, but we all know that every time FIRST puts out a game, there's a bit of a battle on the field...

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Well we can wait for the FTC game to be announced. Generally this gives a hint to what the FRC game will be like. Face Off and Lunacy both had different driving surfaces than normal. Hot Shot and Break away had a ball return or holder plus the end game made a large difference. So if we wait until September we can get a tiny glimpse into FRC

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

As being part of the FTC World Winning alliance i'd say you are right FTC gives some hint to what the FRC is going to be like :D

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

You are right there. For the past two years, when I looked at the FTC games, I tried to figure out what relation they had to that years FRC game. The only thing is that the relation was not something that would make the game stick out, such as that there was a ball holder in Hot Shot and there was a ball holder, in Breakaway there was a ball return. So the relation is that there was something in both games that let balls onto the field. There were differences too though. So there may be a relation between both, but it seems that it wouldn't be that big similarity.

Edit: Also, what would be an anniversary of something soccer/football related, or anything that is related to Breakaway?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

See above,
the World Cup takes place this year in South Africa (Breakaway)
Last year was the anniversary of the moon landing (Lunacy)
2008 was the 60th anniversary of NASCAR (Overdrive)

see a trend?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Whatever it is, the GDC will get creative with it, if they follow a trend for too long it might get predictable and that wouldn't be good.:eek:

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

My prediction is that it will have something to do with the Civil War. I don't know how this will play out (possible water game with the Star of the West?) but i think it would be something vastly different than the past few years, while still keeping to the same theme of anniversaries.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

in addition to what i previously mentioned i oticed its also the 20th aniv. of FRC

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Well then, are there any other special 20th anniversaries coming up in 2011?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

err, Gettysburg was 1863. But the Civil War / War Between the States started in 1861.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Drat. This one's going to be a long one, then--I bet the 5-year plan was the game...it'll be played for 5 years, or until everyone gives up.:ahh::D:yikes:

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Could we see the return of an older FIRST game with some different but not major changes?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I've always wanted this to happen on a Vex scale.

post number 2791

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

As previously mentioned, I had recommended Maize Craize, being brought back. However with the 25th (which is much bigger, and usually a more important milestone) only 5 years away, I see special anniversary festivities being held off till then.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

speaking of marathon, maybe we will need to build robots with legs.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Heh. I guess this is an appropriate year for the FRC (and FTC and FLL)/VRC championships to be held on the same days. War Between the Robotics Competitions for Volunteers?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I suggested that before, apparently its not cool

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Of course robots with legs are cool ... just without the terrain that would require them, wheels are more efficient.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Awesome = Absolutely
Possible to complete in 6 weeks = Unlikely

Robots with wheels does seem really awesome, but the concept does not seem compatible with FRC, nor would be have the time to actually test and build a robot with legs. That is just my opinion.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Only when it's programmers in question is it a problem. I am not writing self-balancing algorithms on our robots

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

So design it with 6 legs. You'll always have 3 point contact with the floor and thus no self balancing algorithms required ... well, no more than a wheeled robot anyways ;)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

How about "shooting" laser pointers at a target on the opponents robot? And instead of red and blue alliance teams, we have blue and grey? Or how about capture the flag with historical unit flags for each team or alliance?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

ROBOT LAZER TAG!!!!

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

thats $$$$ 1 servo is like $15 rounded up, and you need 3 for each leg, so $45 per leg, then 6 legs = $270 JUST on servos

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I don't think that 18 rc servos would move a 120 lb robot very far.

But, if you were to use cims (or FPs) in a closed loop positioning control, then you would have much more powerful servos.

(And it would be a reason to allow us more more motors on the bot (and drain the battery really fast))

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

two stories field. when there is a ramp between them that the robot can drive between the stories easily. At the upper floor there will be 3 points that the robot can fall to the the other story. these points gonna cchange at each field that it will be "randomly". the purpose is take soccer balls to the holes at the second story. there is not specific hole to specific alliance. the score will be decided manually.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

It'd be cool to involve human sports into robot sports

Whatever a human can do, a robot can do. Am I right? :p

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I'd like to put my history teacher in the center of the field and then we will see who is the boss. I hate history and I have test next week.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

And sometimes the other way,

Like at WIWI this year, were going to do a mini competion at lunch where Instead of Robots playing breakaway, we have humans on all fours.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Haha, I'm already imagining it. Seems very interesting

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

For strategy purposes, team 548's drivers, coaches, human players, and other members went to pier frog durring build season. There we played full 2:15 matches against 503 on their full field for strategy purposes. We had tons of fun and found some crazy strategies. Including the deflecter idea when one of the frog force guys who must have been around 6 foot 6 was playing against our coach who is around 5 foot 5. It was really fun to play with breakaway with people and we got some good strategies out of it.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

:ahh: :o Forgot about the weight... CIMs cost more though

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I was able to talk to Steve Cremer, a regional director for FIRST this weekend at MIT, and he said "I think I am authorized to tell you this, but Bill told us all this week that the game for next year would include water elements of some kind."
(not totally a direct quote, but its as accurate as I can remember it)
Now, I don't think he was authorized to tell me this, but still.. a water game!! :yikes: :D

(and no, I am not joking, and I do not think Mr. Cremer was either.)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I don't think as many motors as you think (18) are necessary.

I see it being done with as few as 4:

You have 3 points of contact with the ground at all times. 6 legs.

You would raise 3 legs, move them forward, drop them, raise the other three, and while moving them forward, move the 3 down back.

2 joints per leg, but there are really 2 sets of 3 that move together, so at least 4 joints that are independently controlled.

I don't see you being able to turn with only 4, so I propose 6 + pneumatics:
Raise/lower with pneumatics. Move each with a motor (CIM or FP). The legs are either up or down, but you can vary the forward movement of each leg to turn in an arc.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

1 leg is the bare minimum, but you need MIT status skills to pull that off, well the easiest is the 6 legged, then 4 then 3, then 2 then 1, thats what I would assume the order is

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

If anybody knows something, they aren't telling. If they are telling, they don't know anything (or if they do, they shortly will not). Not only that, but "water game" is the oldest joke in the book. If you really think that they're not joking, then you've been fooled pretty badly.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility, just saying what he told me. :rolleyes:

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Watch, one day it will be a water game and YOU will be punked... but seriously I doubt its ever going to be a water game, that would force every team to water proof the robot, which will hinder the inspection, and they will never do that. and there are potential safely issues with a pool and electricity, unless they are using distilled water every game...

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

actually, he specifically said that it would be in a pool, but would more be like "shoot water into this goal, or fill this container, etc"

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Either way, not gonna be a water game. See the 101 other threads on water games for a reason. (And there's a very good reason not to in that there are already a couple...)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I think that a game like capture the flag would be a really neat idea. Maybe the alliances could choose the location and set up predetermined obstacles. This would require a lot more strategy and be much more interactive.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

or a super duper crazy AI... :D ::rtm:: You see my reference there? but how would you "capture" the flag? Literally grab it? then how would teh other team regain the said flag?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

You could literally grab it, and have a pushing battle back to score it, or something like that. I can see extreme speed and extreme pushing power being key, to push through the defenders and then race to score it.

You could have multiple flags, on each side, with each team having a zone, and the more flags you get the better. There would be defense to prevent flags from being achieved, offense to get the flags, and maybe even a little stealing already scored flags and bringing them back where they belong.

What would the flags be? How about a ring made of small-diameter PVC and 4 elbows, spiked onto a post. You could even have different ones of different values, the toughest and largest prizes there are fewest of (and are the hardest, most guarded).

Field and play:
"your flag" means the flags you are guarding and they are trying to score.
"their flag" means the flags they are guarding and you are trying to score.
standard size field. Alliance wall has box, 18" tall by 24" deep across the entire width of the field. On the top there are pegs where the flags you are guarding and the opposing alliance is trying to get are. On the wall there are pegs for you to score. 9' out there is a line. There are 12 flags and 12 flag holders. No more then 2 of their flags scored per peg. There be no more than two of your robots (defense on your flags or scoring their flags) and one of their robots (attempting to capture your flags) in that zone 9' from the end of the field. Anyone can be in the middle zone. At the start of the match, each robot starts touching the box in their home zone. At the center of the field, there is a dividing line where one bonus flag exists. It is a different color. It starts exactly in the center of the field. It is owned by nobody at the start.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

when building walking robots, 6 legs is over-all the easiest, but you still need to keep the left and right synchronized. the simplest to program have 8 or more legs since they are stable and their legs don't need to be synchronized.

Only 2 motors are needed to build walking robots with six or more legs, one for each side, mechanical linkages take care of the rest. If you use less than six legs, additional balancing motors are needed.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Just do the whole things with pneumatics. It would make it so much simpler.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I have no idea on what the game will be, but it would be crazy to have a game piece with a movable cg. Like the 2007 pool tubes with 1/3 of it filled with little steel balls. It would be crazy to try to control an object like that durring collisions and just manipulating it.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

We've already had a game with water elements in it - Rack and Roll. And for the last 4 years, we've used pool noodles. I wouldn't read too much into the words "water elements". And a red herring is a water element, is it not?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

This giant spider is powered with two motors.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Just out of curiosity, how would you accomplish this?
Rotary actuators? How many cylinders per leg?
It just sounds really heavy. <not that it's easy to make a light weight walking drive train>

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

For me, I just want the game to include a King of the Hill element. I don't care how its portrayed, or done, I just want it to be there.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Erm... I'm sorry?:confused:

Anyhoo, think about instead a game where you have to hold a ball/game piece of some kind and having to hold onto it for the longest time in the match.



But that won't really work...:(

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I feel like this would go against the GDCs commitment towards making the game more audience friendly. Breakaway was a great game for getting people who had never seen a FIRST competition up to speed. This was not the case with Lunacy.

I predict we'll see a return of the interchangeable bumpers, as well as another game with spherical objects.

As much as a Civil War game would be great, FIRST probably does not want to promote warfare.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

What if they boosted the power the dist. board can handle, and gave us two battery's in serial for 24v monsters? I think I would smell a racing/speed based game.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

They would never do a repeat Overdrive within 3 years of the original

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Most likely something like this: How to cap off an oil leak thats 5000 feet under the ocean OR, how to clean oil up quickly and efficiently.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

it's not that crazy, in FIRST, this often takes the form of "king of the hill" games.
it was used in '03 and in that game with the 'puck'

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I have some questions about next year's Jello game.

What is the coefficient of static friction between the required tires made of waffles and the Jello?

May we use Ego Mini Waffles instead of the full size ones provided in the KOP?

What is the depth of the Jello?

Will touching the material supporting the Jello be an automatic DQ?

Where can we purchase a second Mr. Fusion for use on our practice bot?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Mini waffles MAY be used, but only if they follow the same toasting guidelines as regular waffles, which may result in burns.

Yes, the first one will be supplied in the Kit of Parts, but any additional Mr. Fusions can be purchased at AndyMark, along with Eggo waffles and instant Jell-O packets. Note, the use of plutonium is NOT allowed, and any robots using plutonium to power their flux capacitor will not pass inspection. (There goes FIRST, going green again!)

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Dear sir, do you have confirmation on this? Q&A, or it's not legit.
::rtm::

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I'm pretty sure this is a joke, considering the mention of a flux capacitor, plutonium, and the fact they are trying to use waffles as wheels.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

It's legit, please see Team Update 17.


On a slightly more realistic note (this is a "next year's game" thread after all), I could actually see a capture the flag-type game. In fact, it might be a good non-violent allusion to the Civil War, if we're going that route. Maybe a little less complicated though, with bigger "flags" for audience viewing.

I love this idea. We're considering playing mini matches with VEX (and hopefully still will), but this would be a great addition, both for strategy and understanding the quirks of the field.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I had a dream about the 2011 kickoff last night.
The game was similar to Aim High(2006) as you had to shoot balls(similar to poof balls) into a high goal. But it was more like a game of golf(more or less), as the goal moves with every scored ball.

Thinking of anniversaries,
2011 is the:
5th anniversary of Aim High
10th anniversary of Diabolical Dynamics
15th anniversary of Hexagon Havoc

I also agree that swappable bumpers will return. They seem too audience friendly to abandon.
Vision targets probably will return, too.



Personally, I'd like to see a return of the IR beacon and Hybrid period of Overdrive. I thought this was an interesting element of the game.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

GDC post

The GDC has posted:
I've bolded the suspicious-sounding parts.

I think that the water game part, the waded part, and the GDC food part were red herrings, but the bacon part... Why would there be any bacon left over? That doesn't make sense... The first floor part seems unnecessary to me, maybe it's hinting at a multi-storied game?

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I had another idea...

A FARM-type/theme game!

GDC quote from above:
They say that it is the 20th anniversary of FIRST. FIRST's First Game was MAIZE Craze.

Corn? Bacon(pigs)?

Maybe you have to harvest some game peice?
Or herd lambs?

Just my thoughts...

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Diabolical is probably referring to 2001, where there was one alliance of 4 competing against the clock.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I was going to say "Pigs? In FIRST? When pigs fly...", but...yeah. Hey Andy Baker, will the pigs be available from AndyMark?

Words that seem hint-esque to me are "twist", "first floor", and "leftover". Maybe we'll have a game that involves us going up something similar to a spiral staircase to place "leftovers" in the "fridge." (can you tell that I'm thinking about dinner?)

Also, they mentioned a lot of sugary foods this time around.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

We were talking about this topic at a robotics meeting today (just a cleanup session) towards the end of the meeting. We all said, since this'll be the 20th anniversary, that all FIRST games will me mashed together. Here were our ideas...

Small tetras can be stacked on top of plastic tubs or shot through goals at the top of the driver station, which will then be given to the human players to shoot into the trailers behind each robot. For the bonus points, robots can hang on a spider rack, and other robots can suspend from already hung robots.
(we like to be creative with things...) :)

As for the reality, I would love to see a game piece that is not a ball, but balls are easy to use and we have used up all other shapes in previous years. Cylinders may be a possibility, I cant think of any items that would be large enough and sturdy enough for robots to handle. I am imagining baseballs or basketballs. I cant relate to bacon however (I looked up bacon history, saw that Europe was mentioned, looked up popular sports in Europe, and soccer came up, and I doubt its soccer next year, so yea... no luck there :rolleyes:).

My thoughts.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

What if they used a non-rigid shape... like a soft thick ball filled with a type of gel.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

one of the posts says pig-tail (for Ethernet)...

This is probably a common term amongst the programmers, but since the "bacon", I'd thought I should bring it up...

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

I've been saying it for years; Footballs. Probably no more expensive than the soccer balls this year. Probably just as tough. And it is a really hard shape to manipulate. They don't roll straight and they bounce erratically. Couple this with another game piece (maybe softballs) and you will have teams thinking more strategically since all but a few teams will not be able to manipulate both balls.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

Two Words: Clean Sweep.

- Sunny

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

i have a feeling it might revolve around current events. but what i really hope for is a multi-platform feild, something like king of the hill see what robot stays on the longest.

Re: anyone have any ideas about next years game?
 

2003, Stack Attack. After you got done attacking the stacks and sending them to the ground, you headed for the top of the hill to see how your traction on flat HDPE compared to your opponent's traction on angled copper mesh. Some folks figured out that you could lock in around the edges of the HDPE, so teams had a hard time getting up where they were...