2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Michigan championships-match80- one bot suspended
congrats 2337 and 2959. It was just a matter of time before 2337 would get the right partner. It looked like 2337 was trying to pull it off in the match just before this one. Now all we need is 6 bots up at states or double suspended.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

it was straight up epic, hats off to both teams

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And to put the icing on top of the cake, the 5 points for their maneuvers gave them the win in the match!!!

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

It was amazing. We've been trying all competition, but all unforeseen problems end up happening. 201 we lost comms, Army of Sum we got pushed, and finally 2959 to hang with us! Thank you to 2959, we sure hope it made your competition!

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

awsome awsome awsome glad to be able to see it in person and never heard an event so loud when they suspended of the enginerds awsome job guys

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

I can only tip off my hat to 2959. What a great, cool lifter, especially since they "hung with us".

Our whole season, our goal was five or eight points. After over three months, we did it. Time to go for eight points!

But... thanks again 2959. Today was the greatest day of my robotics career so far.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Congratulations 2337, on a very smart design. You made your bars the exact size and shape and height off the ground so any robot that can hang from the tower can hang off of you. There is definitely a potential to get 2 robots suspended.

On top of that, your ball return works also while you are hanging. What a bonus.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Congratulations on the suspension! I think this is only the second time that this has happened so far this season (that I have heard about).

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St Louis had a suspended robot.

Anybody have pictures or video yet?

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Nobody posted a picture? Here's what I shot on my phone...

John

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Thank you, that's just beautiful. :cool:

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Definitely amazing work for those teams. As soon as I saw pictures of 2337, I knew what they were trying to provide for would-be hangers. It's not obvious that ANY hanger could suspend from 2337, but they wouldn't have to reach the platform height to be suspended. That means that some single strand hangers might not get to slide along the pole(s). That seems to get all their wheels off the mat.

It almost inspires me to try fantasy matchup match-making. 2337 + ??? + ??? versus 469 + ??? + ???. Winning alliance might be the one that scored the most autonomous balls, subsequently starving the rest of the field while they recirculate, pong-style in their own zone.

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And a video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXxvgInsI0

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I was in the pits when this happened. We could hear the cheers from the crowd building and we knew something was happening. The cheering kept getting louder and louder and then exploded again. The pits cleared out like a fire alarm had gone off. Everybody ran to the field to see what had just happened. It was a great moment. Congratulations 2337 & 2959!

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I just have to say a few things. That. Was. Awesome. I'm so glad that 2337 finally was able to have someone hang off of them successfully. Best of luck for the rest of the competition~

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great hangers! the picture/video are works of art

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After watching that video, I'd venture to say that 2337 is one of the fastest top bar hangers in the world (if not THE fastest).

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I was checking my FRC Spyder app for rankings when I hear a "whack!" Which, of course I just think "oh, Enginerds are up", and then I hear a second robot and the crowd goes wild. I look up only to have my jaw drop. That was quite possibly the coolest thing at MSC this weekend. I had to take one of your buttons and wear it for the rest of the day immediately after that. It's a shame that you couldn't get it to work again during elims, no matter how hard you tried. That would have been a spectacle. Anyway, Congrats 2337 for an excellent design and to 2959 for helping accomplish a rare feat. Bravo.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Eh, their suspension bar deploy is fast, but their lift time from the ground after that is a pretty normal 3 inches / second or so.

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As soon as more pictures are posted, I'll make sure they show up in this post. Currently, however, I've still yet to see any pictures other then the one John Crombe has posted (thank you for that picture!).

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Awesome to see!!!!!!!!!!! Great job to both the teams....

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It's not the fact that they hang quickly, it's the fact that they have such an awesome way of doing it. After watching so many robots do it the conventional; way, by throwing a hook up to grab the bar, a few robots made me cheer every time they hung, simply because of how cool they looked doing it. Enginerds and Army of Sum were two such teams.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

It usually takes me several days to process the thousands of photos I take at competitions, but I thought this feat deserved special attention.
Nicely done!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Close examination of Daniel's superb photography reveals that 2337 was not carrying their ball redirection gear, and that 2959 was suspending by only one of their two hooks. Looks to me as though the bonus for suspending should have been ten(10!), given its difficulty and now observed rarity. 22 points for a hanging and two suspensions? Seems OK to me. :D

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

If suspension was worth 10 points, it would definitely be less rare. More teams would build their entire designs off suspending, and teams like 1114 would make it so they could score effectively AND suspend a robot every match.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Glad when someone gets my point . ;) Maybe some post-season event would like to modify scoring slightly? FIRST has always tried to encourage inter-team communication. Some enterprising (powerhouse?) team would have to propose a suspension attachment standard, get it accepted by others, practice, all in addition to building a regular robot of their own. As it was, 2337 did the logical thing and tried to duplicate the actual field attachment points.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Picures were up in the gallery. Thank you to Daniel Ernst for the pictures!

The awesome part of our design is that we went though stress analysis on our hanger, and even if we had missed a hook, we still could have held one robot. The sections that were cut out of our hooks we also did stress analysis on, and realized we had no stress on those places. Even the hook we have now is more then we need, but we keep on what we have just to be safe.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

That statement is not entirely true. Yes, Dan has some superb photography, but Team 2337 does in fact still have their ball redirection gear or diverter on their robot.

We do not have to change anything on our robot in order for people to suspend on us. So theoretically we could suspend a robot every match, if everything works as planned (which it doesn't always go as planned because this is FIRST).

I would like to Thank Team 2959 for the excellent execution of the suspension and helping our team complete a goal and objective for this season, we could not have done it without you. Also nice work on backing off to allow us to get elevated (I think your scissor lift was pinching our bumpers preventing us from lifting).

I think this is my favorite picture Dan took - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/

-Clinton-

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

O I C . I evidently have yours confused with someone else's. I saw the slanted panel but I thought there was more to it. Now I've found the diverter of which I was thinking. It was team 51's entirely different design. Sorry for the apparent brain-freeze here.

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Is there a web page with the process described? I'm looking for an excuse to make some plexiglass models and illuminate them with polarized light. Or did you do something easier and/or cooler?

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I have a question regarding 2337s redirection method. When they hang the balls that come off the return chute go under their hanging bar. I thought that that bar would determine the robots frame perimeter. If it does aren't the balls intruding into the robot more then 3"? I really want to be wrong, so can someone explain this to me? and just to clarify I don't have any problem with what you are doing, I'm just curious:o . 2337, I love your robot! Its probably my favorite after 469s. Did you ever strengthen up your vertical bars:p ?

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

The PENALTY is defined in <G46> which references <R19>:
Part b applies. (Part a applies only below the BUMPER ZONE)

MECHANISM is defined:
The deflector is a MECHANISM. The hanger is another MECHANISM, one which is not designed to deflect balls.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Oh, Ok thats a relief. After States I can't imagine 2337s robot any different. Sorry for even bringing it up, and thanks for the explanation.:)

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

The hanger and the general part of the robot above are part of the supporting structure for the actual mechanism, the deflector. There is a 'director' on one side of the deflector, but it is about 2.25''

In a case of weight, we had to choose between that and the deflector:
Deflector: Potentially many points
Vertical bars: 1 more point per robot
If we can find the weight, it is something that everyone (including we) absolutely wants to see. I'm personally lobbying for it to get done. We'll see in Atlanta.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

I completly understand your reasons for making a deflector. Hopefully in Atlanta, that would be about the coolest thing to see two robots hanging from each vertical bar with you holding them up. Talk about Awesome!

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Is there a web page for the process we went though? Not that I know of. We had one of our mentors (who is a structural engineer) get out all of his old college books, and he did it on paper (which is hanging up in our pits, if you'd like to swing by sometime). He went though all the forces acting upon "our tower" if a robot were to hook at 120 lbs. with all the possible force of that robot in one direct point on the frame.

What is it that your trying to make plexiglass models of?

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Another point with adding vertical bars into our design, is if we were to have 2 vertical bars, we wouldn't be able to slide under the tower diagonally to block 469 in autonomous.

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Our biggest hope (or, at least, MY biggest hope) is to get put on an alliance with two robots that have the ability to lift off of the horizontal bars on the tower. A double suspension would be an incredible achievement, and I think that if it happens, it'll happen in Atlanta. Our biggest concern is the fact that simply lining up to perform the maneuver is a BIG time investment. For the most part, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, considering the fact that once our elevation mechanism is attached to the tower, other teams can almost instantaneously attach to it without affecting the process of our elevation (although the suspension with 2959 may be some indication of otherwise).

The greatest problem with fulfilling our hopes is that, unlike us, most teams foresaw the high-scoring matches, and designed robots that were geared towards purely scoring, and rather ignored the endgame, or, at least, set it low on their list of priorities. There are a small few that can elevate themselves consistently and successfully, and even fewer robots that can both execute endgame maneuvers successfully while still being a powerhouse during the match (I'm looking at you 33, 27, 2619, 67, etc.); moreover, teams who are strong scorers and have the ability to suspend other robots are nearly nonexistent.

Our robot is a good all-around robot, don't get me wrong, but as far as pure scoring goes, we would NEVER stand up against a team like HOT, Bees, or the Thunderchickens in a match. Our real strength is in the endgame play, as well as defending teams who play in the middle zone (if there is any doubt to this, just talk to practically any team who played a match against us at Kettering).

My point is that while our elevation/suspension system is one of the more consistent and strong systems out there, our main focus is scoring from the middle zone, and that is even subordinate to the strategy of simply controlling the game pieces and dumping them into the near zone. I see it as a distinct possibility that we may have a double suspension at Atlanta; however, I acknowledge that if we feel that it would not be worth the time spent setting up for the maneuver, such a thing will not happen. After all, our intention is not to shoot for the "WOW!" factor, and, while this certainly would be the case, as seen with the suspension at MSC and the prospect of a double suspension at FWC, we focus more heavily on scoring and winning matches, as that's the overall objective, no?

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

I disagree, and I think that the BIGGEST problem with fulfilling this goal is that we weren't aligned with two hangers. I think we had a very high chance of it happening at the MSC, but at most we only had one other hanger on our alliance. Wether or not we'll see it at Atlanta, I can't be sure.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

That's what I mean. If more teams were geared towards the endgame, it would have happened much more often that we would have been allied with two other teams capable of hanging from the horizontal tower bars. Since most teams focus on scoring/moving balls in between the zones, a great number of them have chosen to focus on their ball-movement systems and have either added a lifter as an afterthought or have not added one at all. Like I said, this isn't the case 100% of the time, but from what we've seen, I'm going to use the generalized statement, even if I will concede that it is not even close to always the case.

This is the very reason we haven't seen more suspensions, and haven't seen a single double-suspension. Apart from the inherent difficulty involved with suspending in general, there are relatively few robots with the capability to do it.

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What is wrong with WOW factor? You should, you must,no, it is your duty to go for it if the chance arises. Even if you must start trying right after auto ends. It will be the greatest feeling your team will have and what other people will remember for along time. The year of rack and roll we kept trying for a double hang in auto. Finally got it in the last match that bot ever played. What a feeling of joy and accomplishment. Oh, we won something else that year but the double is what made the whole year. I know this will be alot to ask but could someone from 2337 post in this thread the match numbers that this might accur in for us poor slobs stuck watching the webcasts. GO FOR IT!!!!

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Once the match schedule is released in Atlanta for our field, I'm finished pit scouting (to know what robots hang, and how they hang), and I enter all the matches into our scouting program, I'll post in here what match we MIGHT see a possible double suspension (if any). I'm sure that if the possibility arises, many will want us to go for the double suspension, but several things could get in the way of that. Nerves, other robots, and playing the game. But I'm sure all teams, including ours, will want to see it happen.

Re: 2337 hung-2959 suspended
 

Nice string of pictures- http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/ Good luck guys.

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I know im late on this but good job to 2337 and 2959! It was cool that 2 of our elimanation round partners did this. 2959 took silver with us in Traverse City and 2337 took gold with us in Ann Arbor. Both drive teams, teams in general actually, were really cool. Good luck to you guys at nationals.