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-   -   Regarding The cRio (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84950)

davidthefat 05-04-2010 00:31
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Actually reread the rules:
"The only legal primary source of electrical energy on the ROBOT during the competition is one MK ES17-12 12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery, OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery, as provided in the 2010 KOP. Teams may use other equivalent 12V batteries during development, testing and practice MATCHES. However, during competition MATCHES only one MK ES17-12 battery OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery can be used on the ROBOT."


BIOS is not primary, its a secondary source

biojae 05-04-2010 00:54
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948241)
Actually reread the rules:
"The only legal primary source of electrical energy on the ROBOT during the competition is one MK ES17-12 12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery, OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery, as provided in the 2010 KOP. Teams may use other equivalent 12V batteries during development, testing and practice MATCHES. However, during competition MATCHES only one MK ES17-12 battery OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery can be used on the ROBOT."


BIOS is not primary, its a secondary source


Then there is rule <r42>
Quote:
<R42> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
A. Any battery other than, or in addition to, the one primary battery permitted by Rule <R40>.

MattD 05-04-2010 00:55
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948241)
Actually reread the rules:
"The only legal primary source of electrical energy on the ROBOT during the competition is one MK ES17-12 12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery, OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery, as provided in the 2010 KOP. Teams may use other equivalent 12V batteries during development, testing and practice MATCHES. However, during competition MATCHES only one MK ES17-12 battery OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery can be used on the ROBOT."


BIOS is not primary, its a secondary source
Take a look at <R01> and <R42.A>. This would prohibit a secondary battery.

Quote:
<R01> Energy used by FRC ROBOTS, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall come only from
the following sources:
A. Electrical energy derived from the onboard 12V battery (see Rule <R40> for specifications
and further details).
B. Compressed air stored in the pneumatic system, stored at a maximum pressure of 120 PSI
in no more than four Clippard Instruments tanks. Extraneous lengths of pneumatic tubing
shall not be used to increase the storage capacity of the air storage system.
C. A change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity.
D. Storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts.

davidthefat 05-04-2010 00:56
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by biojae (Post 948256)
Then there is rule <r42>
:ahh: :mad: Why does FIRST have so strict rules like that... Gah ruins everything


http://www.robotshop.com/ProductInfo...board-computer

that fits the requirements... even though the memory is less than the other one... I still like roboard...

JamJam263 05-04-2010 01:10
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch1373 (Post 948204)
Just putting this out there, I've been an inspector at 3 regionals(WPI, Boston, and CT) and the inspection checklist has always included this line:



The way I read that is that you can't use more than 1(even if cost wasn't an issue). So as an inspector, without seeing an update or Q&A post specifically allowing it, I would say no to that idea.

-Eric
We asked at NYC because we happen to have two cRIOs, and alot of spare time. We had a tcp client/server coded out, we where mainly just gunna send printf data to one, and use the serial port as a console output. But the inspector quoted that exact line from the check list, saying you can only have one, not taking into account the max price rule.

However what we did think of, and haven't come across any kind of rule against, is using a usb-serial or a usb-ethernet adapter on the driver station, and putting a crio and power board on you driver station. You could have a perfect scale model of your robot on your driver station, with working motors, and what ever else you could want.

davidthefat 05-04-2010 01:15
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamJam263 (Post 948265)
We asked at NYC because we happen to have two cRIOs, and alot of spare time. We had a tcp client/server coded out, we where mainly just gunna send printf data to one, and use the serial port as a console output. But the inspector quoted that exact line from the check list, saying you can only have one, not taking into account the max price rule.

However what we did think of, and haven't come across any kind of rule against, is using a usb-serial or a usb-ethernet adapter on the driver station, and putting a crio and power board on you driver station. You could have a perfect scale model of your robot on your driver station, with working motors, and what ever else you could want.
That won't do any help with processing data from the robot, takes too long to get the data from teh robot to classmate to the replica robot then back to classmate then back to the real robot on the field...

biojae 05-04-2010 01:36
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948269)
That won't do any help with processing data from the robot, takes too long to get the data from teh robot to classmate to the replica robot then back to classmate then back to the real robot on the field...
How would the classmate send data back to the robot?
The only data the DS software transfers is from the joysticks, not a serial port.

Not to mention having to lug the cRio, power supply, usb to ethernet (or serial) as well as the regular driverstation. It would be heavy. Hope you have strong drivers!

edit: (Sorry about the double post, on very weak wifi)

JamJam263 05-04-2010 09:36
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948269)
That won't do any help with processing data from the robot, takes too long to get the data from teh robot to classmate to the replica robot then back to classmate then back to the real robot on the field...
Never planed on using to process data on the robot. Only thing we thought of doing with it was having a small version of our arm (before we decided it wasn't worth using) and our kicker at like a 1in = .5ft scale. None of it would be in the least bit necessary, but it would look amazing, and make it easier to visualize whats going on.

PAR_WIG1350 05-04-2010 10:25
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948200)
http://www.robotshop.com/roboard-rb-...omputer-2.html

this sounds like a better investment: its cheaper (way cheaper) and its C++
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have one of those and it's cool so far, now if only I could figure out how to install Linux.

davidthefat 05-04-2010 10:29
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350 (Post 948360)
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have one of those and it's cool so far, now if only I could figure out how to install Linux.
Its just a really small computer, you have to buy the vga port thing though, its like $60

PAR_WIG1350 05-04-2010 10:30
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by biojae (Post 948210)
Though the little battery may have to go (even though its current output is inconsequential)

rule <R01> and <r40>
The Cmos Battery? Hmm... that does seem to be an issue.:ahh:
Well, I guess we can cross the roboard <rb-100 OR rb-110> off the list :mad:

PAR_WIG1350 05-04-2010 10:31
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948364)
Its just a really small computer, you have to buy the vga port thing though, its like $60
I'm aware of that option, but is that really the onlyway?

Foster 05-04-2010 11:56
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 948411)
Yea, or you don't know WTF you are doing, you cant see
Or in a slightly longer, more informative way:

Yes, you will need the VGA connection to act as a monitor. You use the combination monitor / keyboard to be the main console to program, etc.

Plan B would be to use one of the serial ports as a TTY device. That would only work in a non-Windows OS mode.

They are pretty spiffy boards, but running a full blown OS on them isn't a good idea. Linux, DOS or one of the Embedded Windows is fine, performance for full XP isn't fast.

Good luck!

davidthefat 05-04-2010 12:03
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foster (Post 948426)
Or in a slightly longer, more informative way:

Yes, you will need the VGA connection to act as a monitor. You use the combination monitor / keyboard to be the main console to program, etc.

Plan B would be to use one of the serial ports as a TTY device. That would only work in a non-Windows OS mode.

They are pretty spiffy boards, but running a full blown OS on them isn't a good idea. Linux, DOS or one of the Embedded Windows is fine, performance for full XP isn't fast.

Good luck!
Run a text based linux distro or a hacked minimum xps like tinyxp

JamJam263 05-04-2010 14:12
Re: Regarding The cRio
 
Why not just go all out and use http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-228-_-Product .
All youd have to get is a DC laptop chrager with the same specs, and your good to go.


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