Re: Curie 2010!
 

Either that or Archimedes. Both divisions seem pretty stacked this year. But no matter what we see, it'll be nothing compared to the competition we saw at MSC!

For those of you that haven't heard, it sounds like our MC is Mark Leon this year!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

It really is too bad Karthik doesnt MC CMP...

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Umm...who is it? :confused:
Can anyone think of a strategy that would nullify all of 1114 or 469's strengths? Do it and you win. Fer instance:
And what's 1114's weakness? (besides Krispy Kremes, that is :p )

Oh, yes, 1114's kids are not about to let their mentors have all the fun of building their robot. They just work harder at design and build.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

This is what I am thinking is the first step to beating 469.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I think the general thinking is the following:

A) Beating 469 on their own, doable. Difficult, but doable.
B) Beating 1114 on their own, doable. Again, Difficult, but doable.
C) Beating them together, thats where everyone's big question mark is. Since A) and B) are so difficult, preventing C) from becoming a problem in Elims is looking to be EXTREMELY difficult.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Hmm.. So lets say someone besides 2 certain teams get the first alliance. Who do you choose? 469? 1114 And why??

Re: Curie 2010!
 

1114, because they are more versatile.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Im really glad to see some other GRKC Regional teams that are going to be in Curie. Good luck to 1986, 1764, and 2410 and everyone else in the Curie division. This is going to be an awesome first time in the CMP.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I spoke with one of my team's coaches today about this very issue. 469 has a massive target on the back of their heads...EVERYONE is planning how to shut them down. We have seen that they can be stopped, it is possible...and I don't think that 1114 is going to choose a team that EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD is thinking about how to beat. Personally I'm hoping to give 1114 a run for their money when it comes to 1st seed but regardless I don't think they're gong to pick 469. I think 1114 is the team to look out for, they're the ones you need to worry about how to beat. I'm predicting that 469 does not make it to Einstein...but hey who knows...

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Don't forget about 931!

Excited to see you guys in our division! I hope pits are in order of team number like they were the last time I was at championships. I never got to see the inner workings of your teams outstanding robot and would really like to know what makes this thing tick.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Depends on who I am. If I'm an excellent scorer (like 1114, 217, 148, etc), then 469. If I'm anyone else, 1114. IF either declines, I pick the other. If both decline, I've successfully prevented them from picking each other.

Also, if 1114 seeds #1, I do expect them to pick 469, unless 469 breaks or something. 469's ball recycle-ability is of extreme value to a top notch scorer like 1114, even if some of the balls get defended. The fact remains that defense alone cannot win a match, you have to score points somehow. If all of your resources are tied up stopping 469 from doing their thing, you're not scoring balls.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Team RUSH is excited about many things for Atlanta, one of which is the chance we'll have the coveted corner pit since we're the lowest number in our division! ;)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I would bet a whole lot of money that if 1114 is #1 they're picking 469. It would simply be stupid not to.

217 and 67 couldn't beat 469 when 469 had 1918. How would two lesser robots beat 469 when they have 1114?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

absolutely true.
As others have mentioned, if you have the #1 pick and pretty good at scoring, fire the scouting team if they dont tell you to pick 469.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

They do have a massive target on their backs. I expect this to be a significant hurdle to seeding #1. I expect their qualifiers to be very rough because teams will approach the match as a chance to try out their defense against them (maybe impress some teams) instead of just increase their own seeding points, thus lower seeding points for the winner (which will be 469 most of the time). 469 also doesnt generate many cooperation points since they cant score for their opponents as effectively as themselves.

However, 1114 shouldn't have this issue. They are a conventional style bot so no unconventional defense to try (probably will get some 6v0 though). They can and will score for their opponents to up their seeding points. As long as they avoid the red cards ;) they are the favorite to seed #1 IMHO.

1114 & 469 together would be a heavy favorite to win their division in 6 matches. Why would either not want this alliance to form? Everyone is gunning for 469 but who really has a shot to beat them on a good elim alliance? Maybe 1114 and a few others, but why would 1114 take that risk? 1114 will pick 469 and visa versa if given a chance and they will be nearly unbeatable. Now if someone else seeds #1 (always a distinct possibility at CMP with the possibility of tough qual matches) this division will get real interesting.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

48 will exist in Curie and expects with some simple upgrades to bring a more capable robot to the field than it has previously this season.

If we were tossing the spirit of competition out the window, the only X v Y strategy against 1114 and 469 that has a high probablility of keeping either team from #1 seed during qualifying is 84v2. A full out assault from all the relative peasants and lesser nobles on the castle where the King and Queen of Curie reside. Total lockdown of all four goals by opponents and partners in any match 1114 and/or 469 is in. 1114 is especially dangerous even by themselves and would weather most any form of traditional countermeasures to keep their scores low. They've faced strong resistance from other solid robots and still managed to win the seeding battle every time.

In the case of total, absolute collusion, however, 1114/469 (and the unfortunate spectators who must watch these borefests) bear the full brunt of the low seed scores from such debacles, while the rest of the field bears only a fraction of it...unless the Algorithm of Death were still around, but I digress.

Since that situation will never bear itself out in a FIRST competition setting, it will be exceedingly difficult to dethrone these two, save for the influence of fate/luck/karma/divine intervention, for I feel the lion's share of preparation and execution lies with these two teams. They've both done an excellent job of building up their castle walls such that even the best armies of the Curie kingdom would be hard-pressed to breach them.

[/figurative language overload]

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Ah, yes, you CAN have too much figurative language. Thanks Travis :D

So what's with Curie's obsession to prevent these teams from being #1 seed? Wouldn't you prefer to be something like 1st pick from the #1 seed?

Experienced teams know this, but #1 and #2 seeds rarely ally together. Not because they each think they can win it all 'on their own', but because they have robots that do not complement each other for that year's game.

OK, a concrete example: If you have three "front pusher bits", will that win you much? No, but an alliance with a front pusher bot, a mid kicker bot who hangs, and a defense bot who kicks across 2 zones and is fast - well, those three complement each other.

469 is too easy to defend against, once you've seen them. Oh, don't misunderstand: They are very good, and they will do well. But they don't move, and they need a second robot in their offensive zone to defend against the defender. So on the other side of the field, it's 2 on 1 against their alliance: A decent alliance will deny 469 balls and then proceed to whip their butts in 2 on 1...while they sit there.

(Of course, 469 knows this, so they are likely working to change their game. But there will always be a weakness....)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I don't know what matches you watched but 469 doesn't in anyway ,shape or form just sits there. If blocked they play midfield just like any other bot. They can start and stop the return loop set-up anytime they want. The best you can do is stop their auto set-up and then play hard defence against them,but then all you will have is 2v2. They are the best at what they do.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

If it was that easy 469 wouldn't have won a single event.

67 and 217 couldn't do it. That's far better than a decent alliance.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

If 1114 and 469 pair, their excellent scouting will net them the best possible 3rd; From there, it will be domination.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Could anyone explain how Championships run? Someone in the thread earlier mentioned Curie winners facing the Archemides winners. There was also a mention to the Einstein field. A brief summary will do.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

In a nutshell:

There are 4 fields (Curie, Archimedes, Galileo, Newton). The winning alliances of those 4 fields face off on Einstein to determine the Championship winner. Einstein is basically the "Final Four" of the Championship Event.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Not quite.

They've tried to assemble alliances that establish ball advantage in autonomous mode. if that happens, you've got a very much uphill battle.

If the cycle needs a few more balls, all they do is pop out of the tunnel and kick some over. They're a decent feeder bot even without their deflection.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Cant wait to see how we as Kansas city teams do in Curie.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

They aren't just decent, they are one of the top five in the division. Without their deflection system (based on their kicker system), they would still be in eliminations.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

My thinking here is 1114 + 469 pairing up for elims makes their third bot almost completely irrelevant. Their third bot will be a bot that can start in the offensive zone, so 1114 can run their far zone auto, and then traverse the two bumps to go play (mostly irrelevant) defense. As much as I'd love to be that team, theres a limited amount of glory there. Upsetting a hypothetical 1114+469 alliance on the other hand, now THAT would stick in the minds of everyone who sees it. Even for one match. I am still blown away by SF1.1 at GTR, 2949/1305/1404 brought the thunder big time, and were beat 15-11 with 1114 and 1547 up for 4.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

IMO this would be a mistake if 1114 and 469 got together and decided to play this way. I think there are two ways to go with that alliance. One way would be to go with a fast striker like 830 or 171 and try to clean up anything missed by 1114 and 469. You don't care how many they score because you can score more. Another way to go would be to get a robot with a strong drivetrain and decent kicker like 2041 and try to starve the opponent of balls entirely (this strategy may also work with a striker like listed above). If the opponents defender is trying to clear balls 2041 would stay in the near zone and push them around, while 1114 moves every ball they can get to forward into their near zone. If the defender can't clear balls effectively (probably a bad strategy by the opponents) 2041 could move back to the midzone and help 1114 move balls forward.

Having said all that, both the 1114 and 469 scouts and strategists are some of, if not the, best there are. If they pair up, they will already have a plan (actually a few probably) for how they would like to play and who fits that strategy.

EDIT: Thought of more I wanted to say here. Every alliance in every recent game is made up of 3 robots. The competition at the Championship is at a high enough level that even two impressive robots like 1114 and 469 will need the third robot if they want to win a championship. Whoever this third robot is they will certainly be remembered as a World Champion. A well respected mentor of a recent Championship team said that the Championship could have been won by even if they fielded a refrigerator, but I bet most CD members could tell you who the third member of the 1114-217 alliance was.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I just want to throw the other side of the coin to most of the posts in this thread. I know that this might seem like I'm trying to sway people to play differently than most of the posts above, but I just wanted to air it...

There are a lot of good teams in this division. Maybe it doesn't have the "star power" of the other divisions, but it's still very strong. Also, with the number of teams, and number of matches, the chance of getting in a qualification match with a top scoring team (either for or against) is low.

Remember, there are no wins and losses in qualification matches, only points. The only difference is that the alliance that scores more points gets two bonuses: 2x their opponent score and the 5 pt bonus.

If you want to seed well, you need to score as many points in every match you play as you possibly can. By scoring points, and seeding high, you can even control your own destiny by being in the top eight.

So, if that is your mindset, you might want to think about using your match with or against a top team to get a huge score and boost your seeding place. No, I'm not saying 6v0...although that is an option. I'm just saying that if you are lucky to get in 2 or 3 matches with a good scoring robot, those 30, 40, or 50 point matches will do a lot to getting you high into the rankings.

Furthermore, I believe that the third robot as a good striker is very important. We had a great striker in MSC and it won it for us. I will more likely take notice of the robots that go out every match and even just push in 6-8 balls per match than the robot that went out and (IMHO) didn't play the game very smart for qualifications and played defense the whole time. This causes both alliances to get a low score, which in qualification matches IS against the spirit of the game due to how the GDC has the scoring system this year... So even if you "win", you drop in rankings.

I know I'm going to have to put my flame suit on because a lot of you are going to take this as me trying to change how everyone plays against us so we can pair up with so-and-so...that's why I rarely (never) post in threads like this...

But, I honestly believe that if all of you focus so much on a few teams, and how to stop them, you are just going to hurt your chances to do well at the World Championships. It takes 24 robots and 8 alliances and 8 captains to play Saturday afternoon. Be one of those captains!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

CURIE IS GONNA BE SICK! I'm really excited to see all of these teams and looking forward to meeting some new people! It's gonna be our last year at the Georgia Dome so lets bring home a Curie win!

That is only because 830 had 4 blown victors for 3 Matches at MSC. In any matches they were fully functioning they were scoring 6-8 balls a match.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Man, I wish you guys were in Connecticut now...

The other side of the coin is what if you play as the GDC intended and run up scores all qualifying schedule long, possibly including a 6v0... and alliance captains decide that they would be disgusted to pick someone like you, because they have a personal prejudice against running up scores or avoiding defense? This is a bigger issue than I ever thought at the beginning of the season.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Anyone with this prejudice doesn't understand the game, or isn't willing to entertain strategies that will results in them winning championships, so I wouldn't want to be on their alliance anyways.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I'll just say you would be very surprised at the teams that would do that.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

A question:

If it is the last qualification match, 469 is seeded 3rd (but they have finished all their matches), you are seeded 4th, 1114 is seeded 2nd and needs 20 seeding points to reach 1st seed, and you are on 1114's alliance, is it better to:

1. Play normally, possibly improving your position in the top 8, and almost certainly making 1114 first seed? OR
2. Have your human player refuse to return balls. This will rack up many DOGMA penalties and cause you (and 1114) to lose. 1114 will almost certainly not become the first seed.

The second option will break up the 1114-469 alliance, and since this is the last qualification match, you will still be an alliance captain. Does this make your team more likely to win the division?

EDIT: If you pick the second option, you can even pin the opposing robots to lower 1114's seeding score; you wouldn't care about the penalties (in fact, you would want them) since you are intending to lose anyway.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

It makes the executer of such a strategy a massive jerk who will stop at nothing just to make an overhyped alliance not happen, and they'd go on my DNA/DNP list immediately. I know that's a bit harsh, but when is all this "lulz how are we going to stop 1114 and 469" discussion become too much? You want to win, but at that cost?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Plain and simple, while it's become cliche, it doesn't stop being true: FIRST is about more than robots and a competition.

It's about bettering yourself as a human being and expanding your mind; becoming the person with the social and mental capabilities you dream of becoming.

Ask that question you just asked back to yourself and question how it reflects these ideals. What do you think your grandmother would say, as Woodie tends to say. What if you were in 1114's shoes and your partner was working against with complete intention? How would you feel?

That's just my two cents. Ask yourself first before asking the community because very often on these forums, moral dilemmas are posted as strategy. What does Gracious Professionalism mean to you? Give it meaning in your life.

Sam

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I wasn't asking about the effect on the team's reputation, only on its chances of winning (and I agree that it makes the human player a jerk). In my post, I said that it was the last qualification match and the team was already an alliance captain, so they do not have to be picked to make eliminations. This is what I was thinking: if 1114 and 469 form an alliance, what are your chances of winning? Virtually zero. If they don't, what are your chances? Slightly better. Therefore, if you are already an alliance captain, anything that prevents 1114 and 469 from teaming up will help your team win, although it may not be worth the damage to your reputation.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

This brings up an interesting question. What if enough teams decline an alliance selection that there are not enough teams remaining to fill out the 8 alliances?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I was not trying to promote the strategy, and I agree with you that it should never be used. I only wanted to point out that, if a team ever did find itself in this situation, it might have an incentive to basically play against its alliance members.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

The first one. The second option is mean! Intentional DOGMA penalties = bad. If 1114 seeds second because your human player intentionally racked up DOGMA penalties, two things will happen:
1. The #1 seed, who is obviously really good, will probably pick 469.
2. 1114, seeded #2, will not pick your team, because you were a bunch of jerks to them.
So you're not going to win the division, either way. I don't see how penalizing yourself in the last qualification match will help you in any way. I know what my team would do in this situation. We would play to the best of our ability, then get ready to play some tough matches in elims.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

We're now at the point where people are suggesting and advocating that teams throw matches to hurt their alliance partners. Out of the box strategy is one thing, sabotage is another. I'm speechless.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Aside from the fact that it may not work... NO. God, no. Play your best every single match you go out there. To do anything else is disrespectful to your partners, your opponents, your team mates, your sponsors, your school, your division, and all of us in FRC. It sours the vision of FIRST. I would rather lose to 1114/469 100-0 than intentionally draw one penalty. Don't even suggest it. Don't even JOKE about it.

This sort of talk just makes me ashamed to be in FIRST right now. Dean, Dave, or Woodie, could you guys PLEASE address this train of thought in one of your speeches? This denouncement of successful teams is so contrary to everything I think FIRST stands for and I think teams need to hear it from the visionaries of FIRST.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I just want to repeat that I am NOT advocating this... I am ONLY asking whether this would help a team captain in eliminations... Obviously this strategy is not worth using for other reasons.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Such a bleak fate for those who aren't allied with either of those two teams. :D

This thread is interesting - it's like a political campaign, with different parties each pushing their agendas, trying to win the support of the impressionable masses.

As a team that falls squarely within the vast community of the "non-elite" in the Curie Division (despite our name), I'd like to introduce the "Little Guy Party" platform. One which supports:

• the balanced spread of the best teams across all eight alliances for the most exciting Curie elimination rounds possible.

• the balanced use of offense or defense in team strategy, at each team's discretion. If you like to score, then score. If you like to defend, then defend. If you like to drive in circles, drive in circles! Each team defines for themselves their own "spirit of the game".

• in a match against a highly-regarded opponent, the balanced notion that if some great offensive teams leverage the "coopertition" system in their favor by scoring for their opponents (or publicly advocating that the opposition offer less resistance for a bigger scoring "cookie"), then it is equally justifiable for a lesser team who does not have superior abilities to try and limit the favorite's seed rank in a defensive, low scoring match. Not only are they demonstrating marketable elimination round skills against the best competition, they are also increasing the chances of the best of the best seeding lower, leading to more balanced alliances 1-8 and a better shot at advancing for more of the "common" teams. If it's ok for an elite team to ask a Little Guy Team to not offer much resistance in order to maximize their chances of pushing to the top, then it's also ok for teams to try and reject that reality and substitute their own. Not all teams in Atlanta are built to be alliance captains. Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. Instead, demonstrate what you can do to contribute positively to a winning elimination round alliance. I feel THAT is in the best interest of the majority of teams competing within the Curie division.

• Not caving in to the funky "coopertition" pressures of "the system", which often benefits the superior teams' final status far more than that of any of the lesser teams who allow it to happen. Is it smart (or entertaining?) to let someone walk all over you just so you can get a weak rankings boost relative to the bigger boost you're giving to the superior teams by rocketing them to the top of the rankings chart? Keeping the elite teams at the top means they can more easily control their destinies (and therefore, you). Don't automatically buy into claims of "free health care" when in reality people are just trying to leverage their exceedingly high levels of charm, charisma, and good looks to schmooze the public into reelecting them - make them fight even harder to keep their spot at the top - make sure YOUR best interests are being served. ;)

• the right of each team to play the game the way they believe it should be played, and their right to stand up for those beliefs during pre-match strategizing, regardless of whom they are partnered with or what strategies are advocated. Let your voice be heard.

• the rejection of any "strategies" which are designed to limit the success of any of your alliance PARTNERS. These matches are also ripe with opportunities to demonstrate marketable elimination round skills - working well WITH the most powerful teams when presented with such a bipartisan opportunity often increases your chances of reaping benefits down the road.

In summary, the Little Guy Party platform supports working hard with the best when you have the opportunity to play alongside them, but don't do them any favors when squaring off against them, especially if such favors elevate their standing over and above any goals you've set for yourself at the competition.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I agree with these statements 100%, but you cant really take the competitiveness out of some people and the yearn to win. Don't get me wrong, being competitive and wanting to win is fine, but when it reaches the extent of considering sabotaging another robot, that is when it is looked down upon. I'd love to win a championship field and more onto Einstein, but Id rather lose fairly then win unfairly. I think people have forgotten about GP, which is a bit of a pity. My thoughts.
=/

Re: Curie 2010!
 

My team isn't going to Championships.

-.-

Re: Curie 2010!
 

If I may speak a bit bluntly here, if you don't want someone to take the top seed in this division then go out on the field and play your heart out. All of this discussion about how to keep an elite team from seeding at the top through less than honest means is disgusting. If I were ever with a team that purposely threw a match to control the distribution of seeding points to prevent another team from seeding well, I think I would try my absolute hardest to ensure that the offending team did not get selected for an Alliance.

Anyway, it's not like these elite teams can't be beaten. The hype surrounding them makes them huge targets for defense, not to mention that teams work harder to beat them so that they can take pride in their victory.

I've told my Driver on numerous occasions to not get caught up in the "hype" surrounding a select few teams in this divisions as to not cloud his judgement. He and I both know the absolutely devastating results that could come out of certain alliances, so there's no point in talking about it. If we do go up against some super-crazy-awesome powerhouse Alliance of two of the best teams in FIRST then we'll play it like any other: Play Smart, Drive Effectively, and attempt to out strategize them. At a certain point in time, we know that this is all we can do, because we will never let a match compromise our values.

Also, if possible, can we remember that there are other teams in this Division than the two that seem to draw the most attention? I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything but, I'm really tired of hearing about the same two teams and I think a lot of people are too.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

My apologies. I assumed your team was, since you were on this thread talking strategy, sorry about that. I was not beating down on you, I was agreeing with Andrew and Karthik.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

At what point does a strategy go from being honest and valid in an attempt to win to dishonest and sneaky? I'm not necessarily condoning or repudiating this strategy, and while I would never use this strategy, that stems first and foremost from a belief that throwing a match is never strategically in your best interest (as well as ethical concerns obviously).

You are playing to win, that much is obvious. Beating a team does hurt them, though beating another team is completely legitimate. If a strategy puts your team in the best position to win and is within the rules of the competition, why can't you use it? So maybe throwing a match is too far (as I feel it is), what about the 469 autonomous that there was a thread on a few days back? Is attempting to "sabatoge" another team through the use of an autonomous specifically targeted at them legitimate? What about defense (especially the aggressive type that can occasionally break robots). And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't tipping other robots legal in the past? At what point does a strategy intended to win a tournament go from legitimate and fair to inherently evil?

Oh and in case it wasn't obvious, I feel that 469 built one of the most creative, innovative, and amazing robots in FIRST history. It blows me away how awesome their robot is, and they deserve all the credit in the world.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

If you want to win play your best. It's that simple.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Team 386 wishes everyone good luck in Curie. We are also excited because we are finally not in Archimedes like we are every year.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

To quote a very influencial person in FIRST who shall not be named in case he implodes again, "We strive for excellence in everything we do. Even if that means doing something that others view as un-GP. It all depends on your perspective of the event." This quote is from a discussion about the scoring system this year. So if the same logic is applied here what is the differance between scoring against yourself and drawing penalties? If your goal is to give yourself the best shot at taking the division what is the differance? Talk about ethical dilemas this year.

On a side note I don't care either way in the current discussion, I see both sides and know that either way you lose. GP un-GP, it doesn't matter all that people remember at the end of the day is who was in what postition, not why or how they got their.

P.S. Travis Hoffman is my hero for founding the little guy party!:D

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Simple. Score against yourself and you help everyone. Throw every qual you have with 1114 and 469 and you're destroying everyone's seeding score.

I would hope that no one seriously equates this idea as just another way to strive for excellence. It's like saying if you poison the opposing football team, you're just trying to strive for excellence.

The end of that statement is the key. "Be excellent in everything you do and the results will just happen". Don't be so obsessed with the result that you throw out FIRST's core values.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I'm going to draw a comparison here to something that happened in Finals at GTR 2009.

1114/2056/2185 had just been upset by 188/610/1305 in Finals 1. 610's shooter was broken, and a timeout called. Stuff happened, and 610's shooter was still broken. At the end of the timeout, 188 did not make it back to the field in time, and it was ruled that Finals 2 would be played without 188 on the field. 188's field coach very quickly came up with (IMO) a brilliant strategy. They began to score on themselves. I noticed this from the stands literally seconds into the match, and immediately picked up on what they were doing. They determined that they would not stand a chance up against 1114/2056/2185 playing 3 on 2, so they decided to try and force the double G14 to remove all of the super cells that the red alliance would have access to for Finals 3. In the end, the red alliance picked up on what was happening, and only took a single G14. The red alliance then went on to win the regional in Finals 3 by a margin of 7 points, scoring one of the super cells they would not have had if the strategy used in Finals 2 had been fully successful.

Was this un-GP? I don't think so, I think its creatively using the rules to gain yourself the best advantage from a crappy situation. I view playing this year's game 6v0 in much the same light. I don't however, think that out and out sabotage of 1114 or 469 should be acceptable. I don't want to beat them because I'm better at lawyering the rules. I want to beat them by winning the game, the right way.

I'm not one to be afraid to use the rules and how they're written to my advantage. I was quite pleased by my team (under my recommendation) playing WAT Q51 6v0, posting a 24-0 loss, and moving us up the standings to 8th seed. The balance of the qualifications played out and we sunk to 9th seed, to later become the 6th alliance captain.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

When you are a part of an alliance, be it elimination or qualifying, The three teams involved are one team, and must play, win, and lose as such. To do anything else would be downright disturbing.

If you were a second-string football player, would you injure your own team's starter in order to give yourself a chance to shine? That's just about what you're doing here.

Strive for excellence in everything you do, but also recognize it in others when you see it, rather than try to drag it down.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I think the discussion is more hypothetical.


There is indeed a simple strategy to "break up" some imagined super-alliance (isn't there at least one each year?): Just out-play them. :ahh:

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I think we need to get off the subject of how to beat other teams or how talking about how to beat other teams is bad in some sense. I am guessing there are threads for that. This thread is for the Curie division of the First Robotics Championship. Lets get back to talking about how awsome this division is going to play out and how intense the qualifying and elimination matchs are going to be.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

There's something about the human psyche that loves to push the rules. To find that one genius little trick to wiggle past some daunting wall carries with it a subtle pleasure, if a bit of a misguided one. Competitions are really good a calling out these desires, especially at such a high level.

I love FRC, and to imagine it without a feel of competitiveness is impossible. That desire to win must be present, it possesses (and consequently never fails to utilize) the ability to draw out the best qualities and ideas from those participating. At the same time though we can't totally forget about our principles in the excitement. There is a very fine line between competitiveness and spite.

-my $0.02

Agreed. I really hope that I have the opportunity to catch a bit of the action via webcast. I've never seen globals before, and it'd be a real treat to see the best at work.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

1379 will be there and is glad to welcome everyone into our backyard! :)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I hope every team plays their hearts out to play the game as it should be played. If a team is better, then so be it. They deserve to enjoy it. We will be remembering and talking about this year for a long time to come. It is possibly the best year I have experienced. Let us not ruin it.

In an attempt to divert the conversation away from "469 & 1114"....Lets say another team IS a #1 seed, and they earned it (with a little luck). If they pick 1114 (accept), then does the #1 seed beat 469 and the next best robot?

As an example: Would 1114 & 2056 (not in curie but has a history with 1114) beat 469 and the next best bot in Curie?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I assume you mean 2056? This is all really a matter of strategy, and how well the robots fit that strategy. If the 1114 alliance can get good defense on 469 once they get into the tunnel, then all is not lost, because the other alliance members may or may not be able to pick up the slack. On the other hand, 469 may not even have good scorers that will get the balls in the loop in the first place. There's too little real information to actually answer your question.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I am not looking for an exact statistical analysis. Opinions and intuition. I guess it comes down to can 1114 or a potential partner defend 469? I think 1114 can sucessfully defend 469 and their partners can score 2v1 sucessfully the other way. Is this crazy?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I think this thread has adequately covered the 469 and 1114 angle, but seeing as this is the Curie thread I would like to hear about the other 80+ teams in our division.

Why don't you advertise your own capabilities, what trials you have overcome, what changes you had to make to your robot because the game didn't play like you expected? I get more values from these types of threads when I hear the teams advertise what they are good at, own up to the things they are not so good at, and tell stories of how they overcame issues to better their robot.

I really like it when one team talks about another team, because it means that a team has been noticed and not just disappeared through the cracks. I would just like to turn the thread into a better place to read then the bashing and harsh strategies being battered around to shut down 2 teams out of 80+.

I'd kick things off, but I would like to see if the rest of the thread posters like this idea first and not derail the thread if you guys are adamant about continuing with the 2 team out of 80+ discussion.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

1075 has made some relatively major design changes at each of our competitions. Between WAT and GTR, we dropped our DS Swerving, and top bar hanger, for a more reliable drivetrain and vertical bar hanger. Now for CMP we've vastly improved our ball possessor such that we wont spend time caught up on balls, but rather, scoring them.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Hey Don,
Good to hear from you! I've been impressed by how remarkably constrained your kids have been in responding to the immense number of posts made about you and others this year. We've spent some time with our own kids talking about your robot, not to design ways to beat you but rather to underscore what creativity and innovation and out-of-the-box thinking can do. Of course we have develop strategies and counterstrategies, but that's not the point. We look to thinking through your design logic as foundational work for next year's build.

What you wrote about seeding points is clear and sensible, and I might even suggest that a well-balanced alliance would have a response strategy to implement that takes this into account mid-match, once they see how they are faring.

In any case, we here at 1391 look forward to playing with or against you - regardless of outcomes your robot this year leads to more thinking by all the kids, and that's got to be a good thing.

Steve

Re: Curie 2010!
 

This is a pretty cool idea.

Basically, 816 is a near zone striker this year. We have a basic 8WD with AM Plaction wheels, driven with 4 Cims through AM Toughboxes, geared for about 13 feet per second. We're built to be a tunnel bot, though we can climb the bump if needed. We have a pneumatic kicker capable of kicking over one bump that we rarely ever use. We also have a Ball Pincher that is capable of grabbing a ball and holding onto it extremely well.

We were a finalist in New Jersey with 2016 and 422 and were able to give 25 their only lose of the season. During our elimination stint in New Jersey we scored about 80% of the Ball points for our alliance by playing Striker. We also were the number 8 alliance captain in Philadelphia and managed to push our quarter final round with the Number 1 seed to 3 matches.

We play in a way that we're the perfect compliment to two decent all around robots, or even one good mid-fielder. We specialize in clearing out our home zone and scoring throughout the entire match up to the buzzer. Our motto is "If you can get the balls in our zone we'll score them". Depending on the amount of balls in the home zone we will either score a single ball at a time or score a large group of balls in and instant, we've actually scored 4 in one push, which ended up jamming the goal... Lol.

Throughout the season we've been plagued with reliably issues with our control system. We had issues with our USB Hub in New Jersey that we resolved for Philly, we broke a pin on our cRio in Philly, and We also shorted some PWMs in Philly aswell.

For the Championship we're revising our Ball Possessor once again so that it's less likely to carry balls and we're also going to add some new Autonomi so we're not forced to start in the Near Zone.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Thanks Steve... We find, unfortunately, that posting on CD these days usually gets our posts turned against us so we would rather our students share our robot in person at events so please stop by and talk to them in our pit. They will be more than happy to share everything with anybody...

See everyone in 56 hours...

Don

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Wisdom.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I won't try to explain or explain away too much of our season, but maybe a bit. Been doing this for eight years as a mentor, first with an inner city team I founded as a teacher there, and now with 1391. Our virtually all-rookie team this year came together as a unit - in terms of ingenuity and confidence and capability - in ways that were remarkable to me. Best year I've ever had with a team.

Our robot - we can kick (and usually score) all balls from any zone in autonomous. We have an interesting drive base with a combination of plactions-on-pods for both high traction and maneuverability over the bump and omnis on the other end for high mobility. Even though we can push with the best of them we can also fine-scale our movement for precision driving. Our kicker is dial-adjustable to any force required and set by operator continually during the match, so if a short ball move is best, we do it, but if sending it 30 feet in the air is a good idea, we do that. We swapped out drivers after our first regional, and the new guy is the best driver I've ever had - a real sense of how to work the robot well and a very cool head - clearly not fazed by pressure or noise or anything else - he remains in the zone regardless. End game we consistently hang on any of the the vertical bars in 'strongman' fashion, and at our second competition the 2 times we did not do this was because it wasn't in the alliance strategy - we had other roles to play during endgame. At Drexel, we were in the seventh alliance against the eventual regional winner, and without a doubt the first match was simply the most total domination of a high alliance by a low alliance I have ever seen - all three of our alliance robots worked well together and my kid/robot in defense completely shut done two very high scorers working simultaneously in their offensive zone - he was a defensive maniac. We won 10-3 (all of their balls I believe were scored in auton.) Second match we suffered a failure of our power control board of all things - nothing we could either engineer against during the build nor see coming. We were winning the second match when this happened and, dead on the field, our alliance lost that match by a close margin. third match, even after fixes, checks and double checks, the same disaster struck again (we could not swap out the PD board but thought we had managed a work-around.) Lost that too. I believe we could have done quite well without the PD crapping out on us - it's been solved and we're ready to go in this event.

Good luck to all and hope each of us gets what we're looking for from the event - we're shooting to win the whole thing, as I bet we all hope to do!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I can vouch for Steve Compton's post above.

1391 had an exceptional autonomous in Philadelphia, I remember them consistently kicking balls from the far zone in Autonomous during the Eliminations. They also hung very well, and I don't really ever remember them struggling to hang like some teams.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Team Titanium is very excited to be at The Championship Event for the 2nd year in a row.

Last year we won our first Chairman’s Award at the 10,000 Lakes Regional, and this year we won our first Regional Championship at the North Star Regional with 2667 and 71.

Our programming is entirely student led, and our mechanical design is a tight collaboration between engineering mentors and a dedicated core of students. This is our first year with a swerve drive system. If you are considering this type of drive train for the future come on by the pits and snap some pictures. We have a display model in our pit that anyone can look at even when the robot is not available. We took a ton of pictures at last years Championship Event, and it proved an incredible resource as we designed our own variation. We are thrilled with the results in this year’s game.

The robot has scored 3 from the back or 2 from the mid in auto on multiple occasions. We have auto for the front, but have never found ourselves starting in that position. We are open to the idea if it makes sense for the strategy of our alliance. We cross the bump with a delicate grace, and have a variable kicker capable of blasting through the chains or dribbling a shot up the scoring ramp. We have an effective ball control mechanism on a rocking arm which signals to the driver when a ball has been possessed. The top of our robot effectively dampens the ball coming off of the return rack and efficiently returns it to the playing surface where our ball control and kicking mechanisms can put it on target. We score effectively from all three zones. We play in a wide orientation. There is plenty of video on TBA of both the KC Regional and North Star.

The camera is on board, and software has been written to make use of it, but our drivers have developed enough touch over our 2 regionals to not depend upon this feature.

We choose not to hang this year, thinking that in the time it takes to hang we could surely score an equivalent number of balls. Many times that has turned out to be an accurate assumption for us, although we have been impressed with the speed and consistency with which many teams complete the hang.

Our team has a personal approach to Gracious Professionalism that can be summed up in the following statement.

“Gracious Professionalism: As an individual I will invest in people first, thus forming a team, and as a team we will solve the problems of the day. When the combined efforts of the team create surplus time, knowledge, or perhaps even materials we shall share that with other teams, creating worthy adversaries in the field of competition. If through those contributions to others my team looses I will take pride in knowing I was a part of great ideas coming to fruition. I will expend no energy in trying to make my team appear better by tearing down others, or withholding resources from those in need. If inferior products win because better ideas were suppressed I have done the greater community a terrible disservice. Instead I will learn to be better, and when my team wins I will step up and recognize that it was probably because other people helped us along the way too.”

In this spirit we have used our Guitar Hero Robot to raise some funds with which we have purchased a wide variety of nuts, bolts, and other fasteners to share with other teams. If you find yourself in need of something come on by our pit and we will share what we have. This offer is extended to everyone whether you beat us in a previous round, are a potential alliance partner, or not even on our scouts top 40. We are here to help every robot perform at its best on the field.

It is also within our understanding of Gracious Professionalism to celebrate the accomplishments of others as well as our own. We hope that the best alliance from Curie makes it on to Einstein. We have every intention of being on that alliance. Last year we were shocked in Archimedes when 1114, 2056, and 503 were upset in the semi-finals to (IMHO) a superior strategy. It takes great robots, pit crews, drive teams, scouts, and alliance strategies to win. We plan to bring all of that to the table as well as an intense competitive spirit.

I am thrilled to see this thread turn its focus to the immensely talented and deep field at Curie. Many of you have been an inspiration to our team in person, on the field and through your posts on Chief Delphi. Should you meet us on an opposing alliance you will receive our best effort to maximize our seeding score. And if you meet us in the stands or in the pits we hope to be able to call you friend and colleague and exchange ideas and resources to make both of our teams better.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Ahhh! Only 2 days before everything starts! I would like to wish all the teams on Curie and the other divisons good luck this year!


Go FIRST!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I sure hope you folks don't need much spirit help in Atlanta - your emcee is going to want to hear some noise, I guarantee. :)
MADAME...

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Curie!

Come on folks, I need some help.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

CURIE!

I guess I'll be the spokesperson for 573.

This year, we decided to go with simplicity and also high(er) scores. Our robot is a tunnel bot with a four wheel independent tank drive bot with mechanums powered by four cims with AM Toughbox transmissions. Our kicker is a roller with a paddle attached which stays inside our frame zone for constant kicking. The kicker runs the width of our robot and gives us the ability to kick many balls in a short amount of time. We are a highly aggressive offense robot and are very flexible with how we play the game. Although we like to start in the far zone, we can start in any zone and score. We can also be an efficient feeder and an efficient striker.

Being a team from Michigan, we faced some of the best in the world. We won the Ann Arbor District Competition with 2337 and 66(not in Curie, but can't be forgotten). At the Troy District event, we were semi finalists and at the Michigan State Championship, we were the fifth seed alliance with a seeding score of 327. This year has been one of our most successful years and we look to continue that success in Curie and hopefully on Einstein.

Also, since I'm sure some people would be interested in photos, here are some photos of our robot:





(photos taken by myself)

We're excited for Atlanta, and can't wait until Wednesday night when we arrive. We look forward to seeing everybody down there. Be sure to stop by our pit to say hi, because I know I'll be going from pit to pit making friends. Also, if any teams need anything, just ask us. We'll be more than willing to lend a few tools or parts. We also have some excellent programmers, electricians, and other hardworking members who will be more than happy to help out.

See you there!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Your robot is awesome but you are not giving everyone the full picture.....orange hair and man skirts.....we need pics :)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Silly me! How could I forget about those photos. Actually, here's one of the entire alliance skirted up for Ann Arbor:



The skirts, orange hair, bandanas, knee high socks, and anything else we can think of will be worn down in Atlanta, so no worries ;)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Just gonna say, thanks... I could have done without EVER seeing Clinton in a kilt ... now you just had to remind me... You sir, owe me a lunch cuz I just lost mine. ;)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

HEY, I make that man skirt LOOK GOOD!

You never know, you may see me in another skirt on Curie.

-Clinton-

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Well, if we're telling stories, I might as well join in! Be prepared for a wall of text, but I swear it's a good story.

Our hours and hours of brainstorming at Kettering, the day of kickoff, was a great success. We made our most major design decisions there, and our robot was designed off of those ideas. Most things were a bit down from there. What sort of ball control? How will we hang? Will we suspend? Too much weight? What type of kicker (mini das boot?)? Many of the problems were only solved near the end of build season, which we ended with about 1.5 robots, most of a main robot and about half of a practice bot.

At Kettering District, it showed. Our ball control wasn't great, the hanger needed some serious work. Despite that, we played many good, hard matches. Our great drivers kept us in it, playing strong defense. When we finally hung on Saturday, I think almost everyone was cheering in the stands, it was a great moment. We nearly got the first suspension, in week one. Given about 5 more seconds, team 1322 and we would have been front page news in FIRST, a week 1 suspension; however, it was not to be. I must say we were a bit lucky to be selected for the eliminations. We played good matches with good partners (thanks Teams 1 and 1243!) against good opposition, and fell to the #1 alliance in the semifinals. I consider this event a great success. Our hanger worked, our kicker was good, if the ball control needed work. We also showed that defense could be a game-changer.

Ann Arbor was different. We went in knowing we should succeed, and there was pressure on us. We played plenty of very good matches, finally scoring some good goals from the midfield, consistently hanging. For the second straight event, we nearly got the first suspension in the nation, as team 1684 just barely missed our suspension bar. Again, unfortunate. Ranked fourth, we were selected by #3 team, as the #2 alliance (thanks 573 and 66!). There were some truly great moments in those elimination matches. Finals, match 3 could have gone either way. In the end, it was 573's clincher scoring, and our hanging that won the match. Team 2337's first blue banner! It was great. We had high hopes going into MSC.

The Michigan State Championship.. Said to be more competitive than a division at the Championship (well.. probably not).. We knew it would be a challenge, playing against some of the greatest teams in the world. We certainly played well when we had power. Despite losing comms for two matches, we played a very solid match against one of the only few other midfield specialists, team 469. We had a breakthrough here, our robot was hot, scoring balls, hanging almost every match, winning despite difficult matches and better alliances. We also debuted our ball deflector here, and it was as successful as we thought it would be.

Then, qualifications match 80. Getting pushed around, 20 seconds on the clock. With 18 left, we hit the bar, a huge clang. As one person in the pits said, "I was checking my FRC Spyder app for rankings when I hear a "whack!" Which, of course I just think 'oh, Enginerds are up.'" But there was more, as we moved above the platform, team 2959 moved forward, their hooks sprang to our bar, hooked on, and they pulled themselves up. The pits emptied as the stadium exploded. Michigan's first suspension. All our work to make it possible had finally paid off. And better yet, we won the match because it worked.

It was a great match, when we had a breakthrough in match 88. As balls were quickly cleared into the near zone, we saw our alliance scoring heavily, and decided to try exactly what the ball deflector was made for. halfway through the match, we hung and deflected balls into the near zone. Despite playing against defense, the partnership between us and team 910 was solid, and we scored 19 points in that match.

This led us into alliance selections, ranked 11th, hoping to be picked. As 8th alliance captain, we selected two teams that would be good partners. 2619, rivals from year 1 and the alliance captain we defeated in the finals at Ann Arbor, were our first pick. Then, 226, the Hammerheads, a quick, agile, scoring bot. We had our expectations in the quarterfinals, despite going up against the #1 alliance, led by 1918 and the dreaded 469. First match was so close, as we starved the red alliance of balls, but we finally fell 11-14, when a suspension that could have tied the game failed. Then, we got smoked in our next match, and our MSC was over.

And now we're here. Our ball control is fixed up. our hanger has been perfected. our suspension bar is itching to be used. Our ball deflector a veteran of the hardest official event outside of Atlanta. Our drivers, experienced against some of the greatest teams. Who knows where we may end up. As my sig says, Big Hopes.

Big wall of text is OVER.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Oh yes. Be prepared. :D

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Clinton, if 2337 takes Curie I will wear a skirt to work (573, if this happens, can I borrow a skirt?). (Yes, pics will be posted to CD to prove my embarrassment)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

of course you can borrow one. who are we to stop a man from accessing his skirt? ;)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Embarrassment?


You know you'd love wearing it, Andrew.

.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Oh goody, a picture of me trying to get my ears working again. That sound was just way too high! It usually doesn't bother me that much, but when you sometimes can't even hear the field sounds ... :ahh:

Re: Curie 2010!
 

1747 is looking forward to the challenge of putting up some stellar defense as well as scoring some goals :yikes:

We've got some work to put in to find out why our robot isn't communicating with the field but works fine on tether...
Anyway, we can't wait to see you all there in less than 36 hours :eek:

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Well since everyone decided it would be best to tell good stories then I will tell everyone a little about our robot and season. I am happy to see the thread turn around to a more gracious place.

We are a smaller team in Louisiana and this is our second year. We went to the Champs last year off a Rookie All Star award. This year we could only afford to go to the Bayou, our local regional, but we did win the regional which was cool. My fellow mentor and I have been doing this 5 years now and this is our first blue banner.

We were a first week regional, and got to be the guinea pig which led to the awesome update 16. Our regional had one of those teams that hadn't passed inspected at all yet and was still being seeded 6th. So many of the robots at the Bayou could hardly score. With that history you can imagine how disappointed we were when we showed up with a looper bot.

So our robot is a looper bot, with the ability to lock to the tower. We have a secondary multipowered kicker and vacuum possessing system. We did have a climb system as well but we lost it prior to the regional due to weight. With that weight off and after moving our battery at the Bayou we are now capable of crossing the bumps. We have an autonomous capable of starting and emptying the balls in any one zone. We can score from middle and front position in automous and were doing so reliably with our alliance partners during elimination matches.

Our biggest disappointment at our Regional was actually having to win the games we played as a scorer bot using our vesatile kicker. We had hoped to be able to setup on the tower and play infinite loop, but there wasn't anyone we were teamed up with that could score reliably enough while defended. (being a first week, none of the students understood defense in qualifiers wasn't the optimum way to play so defense was very hard on all sides the whole regional) We are so looking forward to a much deeper Curie division so that we can see how our looper performs in action.

We did get to use our looper one time during the finals at the Bayou, and that was a good thing because we learned that there is some serious variation in the ball speed coming off the tower. The one time we tried it, the ball we tried to loop was so fast that it bumped off our top bar. We went back and checked tape, and that was of course the fastest ball the entire weekend, being nearly 70% faster than the average. (Murphy's Law is still in effect it seems) It was a good thing to know, since we have a "poptop" we'll be adding for Atlanta so that we catch even the statistical outliers.

I am including two GIF files from our website showing our designed capability, and the link in my signature goes to a page with GIFs of our robot in live action at the Bayou for anyone who wants to see our capabilities. Curie looks like its going to be a fun division and we look forward to playing some good games.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Jen, get me one too! If 2337 takes Curie, it'll be the garage sale all over again. :D (Ryan and I in skirts with me in ill-fitting high heels... Not a great mix. And NO, I will not post those pictures!)

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Will there be a webcast of curie anywhere?
I really want to see it :)

Good luck to all teams!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

When the webcast goes live, you should be able to find it here:

http://robotics.arc.nasa.gov/events/...rcwebcasts.php

Re: Curie 2010!
 

i guess it's story time :)

Our robot has mecanum drive with 12:1 gearboxes on each wheel, driven by a set of bevel gears. We have a working suspension on our robot, so the flexibility of the floor at champs shouldn't be an issue (Good luck to everyone with 6" mechs and no suspension!).
The front and back of our robot has polycarb shaped into a plow so that we can push balls from either end. In the center of our robot we have a simple slide mechanism that lods and locks the kicker (in one step!). When released, our kicker can kick over the bump, or into the goal. We have made a couple of changes and soon should be able to shoot over both bumps.
On the sides of the robot, between the legs we have strung two sets of bungee cords so that balls do not go within our robot.
On the top of our robot we have a large polycarb hood that will not allow a ball to rest on it, the hood also has another surprise, but you'll have to stop by our pit to see that ;)

We went to two regionals.
At Peachtree, we seeded 15th overall, got picked by the #8 alliance and lost in QF. We won the GM Industrial Design Award.
At Palmetto we were seeded in 1 through 3 the entire time and ended up as the #2 alliance captains. We lost in SF due to many sudden problems (you know how those pop up in elims). We won the Judge's Award, as they put it for "general awesomeness".

any qestions and all that, feel free to message me, i'm on CD most everyday!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

As a proud contemporary kilt wearer (check my avatar) there is nothing embarrasing about a man in a skirt/kilt/unbifurcated garment.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

That's what I thought too, but FIRST has posted a different link:

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/robotics/

Re: Curie 2010!
 

its gunna be great... i will be one of your field reseters for the champs... i just can't wait to see 469 and 1114

Re: Curie 2010!
 

And for those of you that haven't seen it already, here is Looking Forward's Curie Prediction!

Re: Curie 2010!
 

team 2345 has arrived in atlanta and is ready to play the game at the best of our ability. Good luck to everybody because it is going to be and intense few days of amazing competition. Have Fun.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

I smell several upsets on the horizon....

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Curie Q Match 100: 1114, 231, 288 vs. 469, 888, 111

I bet that one will be interesting to watch.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Where did you find this information?

Re: Curie 2010!
 

if someone is seeing this who can change the angle of the camera, please change it or zoom out or something! you can only see the top third of the field and not even the goals.

Re: Curie 2010!
 

Interesting match results so far...can't wait to see how it all pans out.