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-   -   Curie 2010! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85079)

Graham Donaldson 08-04-2010 16:22

Curie 2010!
 
Woot! I get to start the party for Curie 2010. It's definitely shaping up (since it's technically not final yet) to be a pretty intense division. Who's going to be joining NJ and VA winners Team 1676 there?

7 days until competition starts!

Basel A 08-04-2010 16:31

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Here's Ann Arbor Champs, 8th Alliance Captain at MSC, and Michigan's only suspension checking in.

apalrd 08-04-2010 17:22

Re: Curie 2010!
 
1114+469=doom. Simple.

Greg Needel 08-04-2010 17:30

Re: Curie 2010!
 
2775 is happy to be playing with so many friends. Looks like it will be quite competitive and a blast!

BHOP 08-04-2010 17:37

Re: Curie 2010!
 
if it's final...

830 is scared (1114 and 469 together, but ready to do battle.

see you there!

XaulZan11 08-04-2010 17:43

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apalrd (Post 950300)
1114+469=doom. Simple.

Indeed. Thinking of ways to beat 469 is tough enough and then you add in the likely event that they are with 1114! I may have nightmares for the next week!

I can't wait for Curie '10.

Koko Ed 08-04-2010 17:49

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apalrd (Post 950300)
1114+469=doom. Simple.

Well someone has to be the third team.
Instead of dreading the potential alliance think of ways to impress them so they want you to be part of it!

waialua359 08-04-2010 17:51

Re: Curie 2010!
 
1114 or 469 would have to be the #1 seed for them to pair up.
If it doesnt happen, I'd pay money to see 1114 vs. 469 in eliminations.

XaulZan11 08-04-2010 17:55

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Does having 111 in Curie mean we get Dan Green? I hope so.

HashemReza 08-04-2010 17:55

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Hah, this should be a good one. I'm excited!

Alright everyone, let's show em' how it's done. I'd also like to impose a no-469-1114 rule, just to be fair.

Racer26 08-04-2010 18:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HashemReza (Post 950338)
Hah, this should be a good one. I'm excited!

Alright everyone, let's show em' how it's done. I'd also like to impose a no-469-1114 rule, just to be fair.

This can be easily imposed. Just seed higher than both of them.

HashemReza 08-04-2010 18:35

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950369)
This can be easily imposed. Just seed higher than both of them.

Fair argument, but easier said than done ;)
We just had our first ever #1 seed this year, so who knows?

Chris is me 08-04-2010 18:54

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HashemReza (Post 950371)
Fair argument, but easier said than done ;)

I seem to recall a certain 1732 seeding higher than 469 AND 1114 just 3 short years ago on this very field... Hey, they're back again too! ;)

JABot67 08-04-2010 19:07

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 950380)
I seem to recall a certain 1732 seeding higher than 469 AND 1114 just 3 short years ago on this very field... Hey, they're back again too! ;)

Yes, they picked 67 and 48, then eliminated 1114 and 469 in a controversial fashion. But this is a different game...

thefro526 08-04-2010 19:13

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 950380)
I seem to recall a certain 1732 seeding higher than 469 AND 1114 just 3 short years ago on this very field... Hey, they're back again too! ;)

Hmm.

Speaking of Curie History, I seem to remember a certain unknown New Jersey team in 2009 seeding in the 6th position and Pulling off one (Almost two) of the craziest upsets in a long time.

Will they do it again?

I hope so.

Chris is me 08-04-2010 19:15

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950393)
Hmm.

Speaking of Curie History, I seem to remember a certain unknown New Jersey team in 2009 seeding in the 6th position and Pulling off one (Almost two) of the craziest upsets in a long time.

Will they do it again?

I hope so.

816 + 1732 = crazy upsetlicious

V_Chip 08-04-2010 19:29

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Buzz Robotics FRC 175 will be attending the Atlanta Championship in the Curie Division! :D

kenavt 08-04-2010 19:40

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basel A (Post 950263)
Here's Ann Arbor Champs, 8th Alliance Captain at MSC, and Michigan's only suspension checking in.

Doubling it. Plus Quality Award at Ann Arbor. Lookin' to rock n' roll.

BGiraud 08-04-2010 19:42

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950393)
Hmm.

Speaking of Curie History, I seem to remember a certain unknown New Jersey team in 2009 seeding in the 6th position and Pulling off one (Almost two) of the craziest upsets in a long time.

Will they do it again?

I hope so.

How about another unknown NJ team?

thefro526 08-04-2010 19:45

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BGiraud (Post 950416)
How about another unknown NJ team?

Psh.

Unknown? You guys have a bigger target on your backs than some of the "Powerhouses" this year. :p

BGiraud 08-04-2010 19:51

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950417)
Psh.

Unknown? You guys have a bigger target on your backs than some of the "Powerhouses" this year. :p

I don't know about that, but it would be nice if you are right and we live up to it.

Racer26 08-04-2010 19:53

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Or us unknowns from Canada :P

XaulZan11 08-04-2010 20:08

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JABot67 (Post 950388)
Yes, they picked 67 and 48, then eliminated 1114 and 469 in a controversial fashion. But this is a different game...

Yep, sadly we won't have 67 on our side if we go against 1114 and 469. And 2010 469>>>> 2007 469 (which is really scary because they were darn good in 2007).

Jack Jones 08-04-2010 20:10

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Team 2612 is eager to do battle once again either with or against team 469. After falling to them in the finals at Cass Tech, the quarters in Troy, and again in the finals at the Michigan Championship, we claim the eminent distinction of knowing first hand how not to defeat them. :)

Billfred 08-04-2010 20:15

Re: Curie 2010!
 
1398 will be in full effect on Curie, in many ways its home division. (Three of the team's four past trips to Atlanta have led here, the exception being 2008 on Archimedes.)

We'll be bringing one third of the Palmetto Regional winning alliance, a cheering section bent on giving TJ^2 a run for its money, and a lot of 2815's mentors since the two collaborated closely this year.

This oughta be fun.

BGiraud 08-04-2010 20:15

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jones (Post 950428)
Team 2612 is eager to do battle once again either with or against team 469. After falling to them in the finals at Cass Tech, the quarters in Troy, and again in the finals at the Michigan Championship, we claim the eminent distinction of knowing first hand how not to defeat them. :)

Would you rather be with or against (with your choice of partners)?

BrendanB 08-04-2010 20:25

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Note: I'm on the Archimedes field, not Curie!

I'm predicting two things:

1. 1114 and 469 do not wind up on the same alliance
OR
2. They wind up on the same alliance but do not win the division.

Sounds out there, but don't hand them the trophy there are a lot of others teams here than can bring good competition! :D

Jack Jones 08-04-2010 20:30

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BGiraud (Post 950431)
Would you rather be with or against (with your choice of partners)?

We've been with them for years in so many ways that we win when they do, so it's all good either way.

EDIT: On second thought - It sure would be a shame to waste all that time we spent lulling them into a false sense of security.

1t5h1e1o 08-04-2010 20:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
1511 is excited & ready to go! :D

It's great to be with our fellow Rochesterians 191, 340, and 1126, as well as all of those teams we know and love from around the country!

As my last official FIRST Event as a student, I can't wait to cap off my high school FIRST career with another great experience.

ExTexan 08-04-2010 21:00

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Here's Ann Arbor Champs, 8th Alliance Captain at MSC, and Michigan's only suspension checking in.
No matter what my assignment is, or where I may be stationed, I think I'll be trying to be at Curie for your matches to check out the nation's first double!

Jeffy 08-04-2010 21:25

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Were all excited here in KC to be back in Curie! This divison looks stacked! Should be exccellent competetion.

sircedric4 08-04-2010 21:52

Re: Curie 2010!
 
We're happy just to get a chance to play again after our first week regional. Man it is a long slog from week 1 to Championships. We hope with this deep field we'll finally get to see if our ball looper works as well as it did in practice. We are quite happy with our kicker and possessor since it helped us win the Bayou but we want to see our true concept in action.

Good luck to everyone in Curie. And seeing as we're unknown we'll be happy to finally get to play Saturday afternoon. I've mentored 5 years and been to Atlanta twice already and this my third, I just want to dance Saturday afternoon. :-)

Fireworks 234 08-04-2010 22:17

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Let's get some spirit in here :)
MADAME...

PaW 08-04-2010 22:28

Re: Curie 2010!
 
CURIE !!!

Zach O 08-04-2010 22:28

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTexan (Post 950454)
No matter what my assignment is, or where I may be stationed, I think I'll be trying to be at Curie for your matches to check out the nation's first double!

Curie is where your going to see it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrendanB (Post 950438)
I'm predicting two things:

1. 1114 and 469 do not wind up on the same alliance
OR
2. They wind up on the same alliance but do not win the division.

I'll believe it. I think that although those two teams are favored, something along those lines will happen. 469/1114 either won't be ranked 1st, and someone else will end up picking one of them, or some other seed might just beat them. Although, their stats don't lie. 1114 is undefeated this year, and both 469 and 1114 have won every event they've attented. If these two do not end up being on the same alliance, I'll be surprised, and if they do, I look forward to some TERRIFIC matches.

However, I wish the best to all teams attending Curie 2010, and lets show them this is the field to be at!

haye321 08-04-2010 22:33

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Team 1676 plans on giving 469 and 1114 a run for their money whether we are with them or not!!

Jen.Scharl 08-04-2010 22:54

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Heres 573 checking in: Winners of the Ann Arbor District (with our friends 2337), 4th Alliance Capitan at MSC, and official 469 autonomous stopper. :D

I'm so pumped. Curie is going to be such a great division this year! There are plenty of really good teams! Its going to be interesting!

Clinton Bolinger 08-04-2010 23:00

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTexan (Post 950454)
No matter what my assignment is, or where I may be stationed, I think I'll be trying to be at Curie for your matches to check out the nation's first double!

Did you bet Double or Nothing? Or rather Double Suspension or Nothing?

-Clinton-

ExTexan 08-04-2010 23:26

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Did you bet Double or Nothing? Or rather Double Suspension or Nothing?
If I knew you would have 2 hangers with you in some of your matches, the bet would be on! But I'm going to wait until the match schedules come out....if there's a chance I'm going with YOU!

akeisic 09-04-2010 00:19

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach O (Post 950521)
Although, their stats don't lie. 1114 is undefeated this year, and both 469 and 1114 have won every event they've attented. If these two do not end up being on the same alliance, I'll be surprised

Here's a gutsy strategy move: During the qualification rounds teams agree to go 5 on 1 against 1114 and 469 so that neither is the number 1 seed. If either is the number 1 seed, common sense indicates that they'll pick each other and then you have an uphill battle from there.

During the quals... Say 1114 (or 469) is red, then the two red robots could park in front of their own goal while the 3 blue robots play normally. Yes, the red robots would be sacrificing themselves for the match, but they would help keep 469 and 1114 away from the number 1 seed. Lose the battle, win the war.

Do I like the idea? No. Could it help break up a hugely powerful alliance? Yes. Will it work? Yet to be determined...

BrendanB 09-04-2010 00:28

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by akeisic (Post 950586)
Here's a gutsy strategy move: During the qualification rounds teams agree to go 5 on 1 against 1114 and 469 so that neither is the number 1 seed. If either is the number 1 seed, common sense indicates that they'll pick each other and then you have an uphill battle from there.

During the quals... Say 1114 (or 469) is red, then the two red robots could park in front of their own goal while the 3 blue robots play normally. Yes, the red robots would be sacrificing themselves for the match, but they would help keep 469 and 1114 away from the number 1 seed. Lose the battle, win the war.

Do I like the idea? No. Could it help break up a hugely powerful alliance? Yes. Will it work? Yet to be determined...

I think Curie can beat them or force 3 elimination matches with good "New England" defense ;) and strong offense! Oh, strategy, strategy, strategy! Can't go wrong figuring out powerful match strategies. I don't think turning alliance members against the number 1 and 2 teams is a good idea.

And if 469 and 1114 get together, 30+ points is what you are capable of! ;)

delsaner 09-04-2010 00:29

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrendanB (Post 950438)
I'm predicting two things:

1. 1114 and 469 do not wind up on the same alliance
OR
2. They wind up on the same alliance but do not win the division.

And that's where we come in. ;)

In all seriousness, I am a bit intimidated at the fact of 469 and 1114 being on our field, but 1676 is going to do the best they can to succeed on Curie; watch out, there's a new powerhouse on the block this year. I cannot wait to see you all there on the field, good luck to all teams!

BrendanB 09-04-2010 00:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by delsaner (Post 950589)
And that's where we come in. ;)

In all seriousness, I am a bit intimidated at the fact of 469 and 1114 being on our field, but 1676 is going to do the best they can to succeed on Curie; watch out, there's a new powerhouse on the block this year. I cannot wait to see you all there on the field, good luck to all teams!

You guys will do well and good luck! :]

1986titans 09-04-2010 00:40

Re: Curie 2010!
 
It looks like we'll be in this division.

Wetzel 09-04-2010 00:40

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Looks like a good group we have here. I've worked with many of these teams at my regionals this year, and look forward to meeting new ones on the field.

I'll be around the field, those of you on a drive team should be able to find me.


Wetzel

akeisic 09-04-2010 00:43

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrendanB (Post 950588)
I don't think turning alliance members against the number 1 and 2 teams is a good idea.

I agree. It's not in the spirit of the game.

I'm simply trying to think outside the box on how to prevent a 1114 and 469 alliance and the best way to do that is to prevent the two from being the number 1 seed. I'd love to see the match up of 1114 vs 469!

BrendanB 09-04-2010 00:47

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by akeisic (Post 950600)
I agree. It's not in the spirit of the game.

I'm simply trying to think outside the box on how to prevent a 1114 and 469 alliance and the best way to do that is to prevent the two from being the number 1 seed. I'd love to see the match up of 1114 vs 469!

Out play them! :D I'm sure that Curie will hold a ton of surprises.


And to teams 1114 and 469: You guys have some amazing robots and I hope you guys do well on Curie this year! :)

MikeE 09-04-2010 01:21

Re: Curie 2010!
 
What an awesome division to be a part of, with so many excellent teams and two of this year's stand-outs in 469 & 1114.
With 10 matches in the qualification schedule, there's an ~40% chance we'll get to play as part of an alliance with one of them - and a 100% chance if we somehow end up as #1 seed :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 950430)
... a cheering section bent on giving TJ^2 a run for its money, ...

Them's fighting words Mr. Fred :D

johnr 09-04-2010 08:08

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExTexan (Post 950561)
If I knew you would have 2 hangers with you in some of your matches, the bet would be on! But I'm going to wait until the match schedules come out....if there's a chance I'm going with YOU!

Who needs a match schedule? When you feel the dome tilt towards Curie you better head over there.:ahh:

yarden.saa 09-04-2010 08:31

Re: Curie 2010!
 
some one know how much robots can hang in curie and their statistics?
Team 3339 will be in her rookie year in curie!

Racer26 09-04-2010 09:17

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by akeisic (Post 950600)
I agree. It's not in the spirit of the game.

I'm simply trying to think outside the box on how to prevent a 1114 and 469 alliance and the best way to do that is to prevent the two from being the number 1 seed. I'd love to see the match up of 1114 vs 469!

The other thing I had thought of in the "strategies to ensure team X doesnt seed #1" is to deliberately take a red card when aligned with them. Definitely not GP, definitely not something I would do, but it would work.

Josh Fox 09-04-2010 09:19

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950678)
The other thing I had thought of in the "strategies to ensure team X doesnt seed #1" is to deliberately take a red card when aligned with them. Definitely not GP, definitely not something I would do, but it would work.

A red card during qualifications doesn't affect your partners in that match. You just don't receive any qualifying points from it regardless of outcome while your partners receive whatever points are earned in that particular match.

Racer26 09-04-2010 09:31

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I was fairly certain taking a red card affects the whole alliance.

EDIT: I stand corrected, <T11> and <T12>

Joe Ross 09-04-2010 09:37

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950685)
I was fairly certain taking a red card affects the whole alliance.

Only in the eliminations, not in the qualifications. See 9.3.6, <T11>, and <T12>. I'm glad that FIRST doesn't allow you to intentionally harm your alliance partner in this way.

thefro526 09-04-2010 09:40

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950678)
The other thing I had thought of in the "strategies to ensure team X doesnt seed #1" is to deliberately take a red card when aligned with them. Definitely not GP, definitely not something I would do, but it would work.

This wouldn't work in Qualifications, you'd only hurt yourself.

Though, if you wanted to you could incur a substantial amount of penalties to make sure your alliances loses. Once again, it's not GP, but it'll work.

Racer26 09-04-2010 09:48

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Another interesting strategy might be to ALWAYS play 6v0 against them. Minimize their coopertition points.

We did this in Waterloo, and set what may well be a record 6v0 match at 24-0.

Andrew Schreiber 09-04-2010 10:03

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Or you could play the game instead of gaming the game.

469 and 1114 ARE beatable. Rather than figuring out how to use the system against them why not just out play them?
Plus, if I see any of these "strategies" used I will just root for 1114/469 harder.

Racer26 09-04-2010 10:23

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 950704)
Or you could play the game instead of gaming the game.

469 and 1114 ARE beatable. Rather than figuring out how to use the system against them why not just out play them?
Plus, if I see any of these "strategies" used I will just root for 1114/469 harder.

I'm going to respectfully submit here that playing 6v0 IS playing the game.

Andrew Schreiber 09-04-2010 10:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950717)
I'm going to respectfully submit here that playing 6v0 IS playing the game.

And I will respectfully disagree.

Chris is me 09-04-2010 10:38

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950717)
I'm going to respectfully submit here that playing 6v0 IS playing the game.

I don't think he meant that point in particular.

6v0 doesn't make you jump ahead of them in QP, it boosts you both at the same time. If you're trying to form a well constructed lower seed alliance, then go for it.

Dave Scheck 09-04-2010 10:38

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Not to start a whole 6v0 thread again, but I still don't see how going 6v0 makes any dominant team beatable.

Going 6v0 gives all teams the same points, but those points are still pretty darn high. A 25-0 match is better that a 7-5 match in terms of seeding points. Yes, you don't give them the coopertition points, but if they're getting that many seeding points consistently, who cares about coopertition points.

If a dominant team were to play every match as 6v0 and get 25 points each match, 10 matches later they have 250 seeding points. If you play in one of those matches, you get your 25 points, but the rest of the matches average, say, 15 points, you're sitting at 160. In the end, the 25 points that you (and everyone else that played 6v0 against them) gave them has widened the gap between them and the rest of the field. If I were that dominant team, I would welcome any 6v0 match that was going to yield me an easy 25 points.

If you're playing 6v0 to help yourself, this is probably perfectly fine. You get your points and move up, and the dominant team stays ahead. However, if you're trying to dethrone the dominant team, you're probably better off trying to keep the score low to lessen the gap.

ExTexan 09-04-2010 10:42

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Who needs a match schedule? When you feel the dome tilt towards Curie you better head over there.
You're right! and who knows, Clinton will probably have that bot elevated, diverting balls into the goal, suspending 1, and then reaching out, grabbing the Freeze's roll bars and suspending it also! :)

johnr 09-04-2010 10:46

Re: Curie 2010!
 
How does sitting in front of your own goals show 469/1114, or any other team that you would be a good partner in finals? This is champs. The last time for alot of drive teams or the first time. 6v0 is asking alot. What i would like to see is every alliance on every field in the first match play a forced 6v0.:confused: It would just show the powers that be how silly this seeding system is.

Chris is me 09-04-2010 10:54

Re: Curie 2010!
 
A word...

If I were you, I would worry less about how to dethrone the best and more about how to win the division. If the MSC matches are any indication, it is possible to beat an alliance with two effective scorers and 469. Which would you rather be, the robot that brings 469 to #2 seed, that no one remembers? Or the alliance that performed the most shocking eliminations upset in FRC history?

I know a lot of random FIRST facts, but I have no idea who or how 1114 seeded less than 1st on Curie on 2007. I do know that 1732 / 67 / 48 performed a controversial upset. If you're trying to make history, take em down in eliminations.

thefro526 09-04-2010 11:01

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 950746)
Or the alliance that performed the most shocking eliminations upset in FRC history?

I want to be this when I grow up.

Zach O 09-04-2010 12:01

Re: Curie 2010!
 
A note on 6v0 that I think teams should realize: Even though you do go up in ranking, is sends the other teams up in ranking too. So while everyone will play 6v0 against 469 and 1114, the same people will complain when they are #1 and #2.

Andrew Schreiber 09-04-2010 12:05

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach O (Post 950780)
A note on 6v0 that I think teams should realize: Even though you do go up in ranking, is sends the other teams up in ranking too. So while everyone will play 6v0 against 469 and 1114, the same people will complain when they are #1 and #2.

No, they will complain that they got to go to 3 events each or that their "mentors build their robots"... I'll go back to mumbling in my corner now. Good luck 469/1114, you guys have a target the size of Texas on your backs.

kenavt 09-04-2010 12:21

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Along the lines of beating 469...

217 beat them once in qualifying at Cass Tech, tied them at Troy (and then got demolished), beat them in MSC qualifying, and then went 1-2-1 in the finals at MSC. That's a 3-2-2 record so far this year. And, if you take a look at one of the matches, their strategy to beat 469 isn't really that complex either. I see at least one team doing this to 469 during Curie and having identical success. If there's an upset with 469 losing in the elims, there'll be a team doing that.

My $0.02.

BenX02 09-04-2010 12:26

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I'm calling it now. Curie devision is going to win the Championship.

1114, 469, and a third team, some random picks: 832, 2775.

And oh wow! I didn't even notice 111 is in there also. Some tough competition in there.

thefro526 09-04-2010 12:28

Re: Curie 2010!
 
So, to segway away from the 469 discussion.

Are there any other "strikers" in the field? We're a "striker" and managed to make it to the finals in New Jersey. We're planning on modifying our ball possessor once again for the Championship to see if we can eliminate our carrying problem.

(Striker(s) is in quotes because technically any team can be a striker but there are some teams where this is what they prefer to do, and are very good at it)

Zach O 09-04-2010 12:33

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenX02 (Post 950791)
I'm calling it now. Curie devision is going to win the Championship.

1114, 469, and a third team.

Can we call dibs? :D

Cap'nCollin1986 09-04-2010 12:53

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I would like to insert Team 1986 into the mix! Youngest undefeated team in the United States (something 469 has not been able to do this year)!

Curie's gonna be real good!

Akash Rastogi 09-04-2010 12:57

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap'nCollin1986 (Post 950813)
I would like to insert Team 1986 into the mix! Youngest undefeated team in the United States (something 469 has not been able to do this year)!

Curie's gonna be real good!

Considering they competed and won 3 events in Michigan (which is a whole nother ball game), I'm fairly sure a 43-9-5 record is something that pretty good.
;)

kwotremb 09-04-2010 13:00

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950795)
So, to segway away from the 469 discussion.

Are there any other "strikers" in the field? We're a "striker" and manages to make it to the finals in New Jersey. We're planning on modifying our ball possessor once again for the Championship to see if we can eliminate our carrying problem.

(Striker(s) is in quotes because technically any team can be a striker but there are some teams where this is what they prefer to do, and are very good at it)

If I remember 830 is in this division as well. They usually end up playing the closer/stricker zone. They did well at Traverse City as well as Ann Arbor. Very quick and well driven, some of the top qualities needed in the close zone.

kenavt 09-04-2010 13:07

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwotremb (Post 950821)
If I remember 830 is in this division as well. They usually end up playing the closer/stricker zone. They did well at Traverse City as well as Ann Arbor. Very quick and well driven, some of the top qualities needed in the close zone.

But once they faced some really good competition at MSC they seemed to falter.

Cap'nCollin1986 09-04-2010 13:10

Re: Curie 2010!
 
With the whole 'undefeated' thing (because i have no idea how to put a quote into a reply), if there is some way to get an upper hand in this division, it definitely wouldn't hurt!

By no means am i trying to take anything away from 469, cuz they're still amazing, but I'm just trying to say that they ARE beatable, and there will definitely be a lot of craziness going on in the Curie Division!

sircedric4 09-04-2010 13:10

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 950784)
No, they will complain that they got to go to 3 events each or that their "mentors build their robots"... I'll go back to mumbling in my corner now. Good luck 469/1114, you guys have a target the size of Texas on your backs.

I don't know about "mentors building their robots', but I do believe that going to 3 events gives the teams that can afford it a heck of an advantage. Of course, I look at it as a problem for my team to solve not a situation to deny those that can afford it. One year I hope to mentor a team that can afford more than just the local regional, but I recognize the onus is on us to raise those resources.

I also look every year to try and be the team that upsets the big boys with our little underdog robot. :-) We get better each year as me and my fellow mentor and the students learn more tricks about the games. This year we hit on the looper strategy, but didn't get the awesome implementation of 469 since we kill the potential energy to deflect the ball not use it to go straight in the goal. But that lesson learned is going in the bible for future years. :-)

I learn more each year from the teams that have been doing it 20 years, and hope one year that a team I am mentoring will at least be a somewhat known team like the big boys. We are inspired, as is the goal of FIRST, to try and better ourselves to compete at that level. We are looking forward to getting to play in Curie because it means we have a slight chance of playing with some of these awesome teams during qualifiers and get another chance to learn a few tricks.

Good game to all, we have a reasonable goal this year just to play on Saturday afternoon for qualifiers. If we can pull that off everything else is just gravy. :-)

XaulZan11 09-04-2010 13:21

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap'nCollin1986 (Post 950813)
I would like to insert Team 1986 into the mix! Youngest undefeated team in the United States (something 469 has not been able to do this year)!

Curie's gonna be real good!

You mean youngest team that went undefeated at their second event?

To go back to what Chris said before, I agree that teams shouldn't focus on seeding higher than them, but start strategizing on how to beat a 469/1114 alliance. Unless you play them all 10 qualification matches, you cannot control what they do. The best you can do is to attempt to maximize your seeding points and hope for the best. I think it would be wise to start thinking of ways to beat a 469/1114 alliance because its better to think of that stuff now than lunch time Saturday. After finishing pre-scouting, I hope to come up with an initial list of teams that can fulfill our strategy to pull off the upset. I think a 469/1114 alliance is likely, although I hope it doesn't happen (unless we are their 3rd partner).

A part of me wants to go against 469/1114. Going into the match, you have nothing to lose. No pressure, no expectations, nothing. All the pressure is on them. Just go into the match with a good strategy and hope the ball bounces your way.

rotolomi 09-04-2010 13:23

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko Ed (Post 950329)
Well someone has to be the third team.
Instead of dreading the potential alliance think of ways to impress them so they want you to be part of it!

that's how I feel! we'll never beat 'em, might as well try to join 'em :yikes:

Josh Fox 09-04-2010 13:30

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rotolomi (Post 950840)
that's how I feel! we'll never beat 'em, might as well try to join 'em :yikes:

As much as we'd all love to be playing with team 469/1114/111/other good teams Saturday afternoon, only 2 other teams get to do so.

I for one will be thinking of ways to beat them, and then if we are fortunate enough to play with any of them I won't have to worry about beating them anymore.

Basel A 09-04-2010 13:37

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XaulZan11 (Post 950837)
A part of me wants to go against 469/1114. Going into the match, you have nothing to lose. No pressure, no expectations, nothing. All the pressure is on them. Just go into the match with a good strategy and hope the ball bounces your way.

Unless of course you do have expectations. We were seen an 469's rival. They push better, we hang very reliably. They deflect better, we can deflect during gameplay. Our gameplay was generally equal, we may have been a bit better in that regard. There were expectations for us. And we were so close. And we lost. But now we're back for more.

Anyway, thought I'd insert a little anecdote. Just don't assume there won't be expectations when there probably will be anyway. This is the Championship.

Racer26 09-04-2010 13:55

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I highly doubt we'd see a 1114/469/2337 alliance, purely because 2337's main feature (the ability to suspend) is useless to 1114, since they hang from the vertical bar.

Clinton Bolinger 09-04-2010 14:02

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950866)
I highly doubt we'd see a 1114/469/2337 alliance, purely because 2337's main feature (the ability to suspend) is useless to 1114, since they hang from the vertical bar.

We do provide a lot more to our alliance then just suspending. We are a mid fielder, score from mid, move balls to the offensive zone from the mid, play D in the mid, Divert balls from the mid, hang from the mid, and yes potentially suspend others from the mid.

However that doesn't mean we can't do these things from the offensive or defensive zones.

-Clinton-

Zach O 09-04-2010 14:04

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 950866)
I highly doubt we'd see a 1114/469/2337 alliance, purely because 2337's main feature (the ability to suspend) is useless to 1114, since they hang from the vertical bar.

Another reason why we won't see that alliance is because 2337, 469, and 1114 will all be too high up in the seeding for them to make it to the second round picks! (That's right, the nerds are coming to win! :D Graciously)

Racer26 09-04-2010 14:04

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I was by no means trying to minimize your other contributions to an alliance, however, I suspect 2337 is most likely to be picked for an alliance for that feature, which is of little use to a 1114/469 pair.

XaulZan11 09-04-2010 14:07

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Perhaps I'm my value of teams are incorrect, but I think that if 469/1114 pair up, they will be the favorites. You are not expected to beat them and thus you have no expectations. When you play them, you have to take advantage of any possible advantage you have and one is the proper pressure-free mindset.

thefro526 09-04-2010 14:08

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger (Post 950872)

However that doesn't mean we can't do these things from the offensive or defensive zones.

-Clinton-

Just out of Curiosity, can your machine transfer between zones? I know it's pretty tall, so I imagine you'd struggle a bit if you could...

Zach O 09-04-2010 14:10

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950882)
Just out of Curiosity, can your machine transfer between zones? I know it's pretty tall, so I imagine you'd struggle a bit if you could...

No, we cannot go between zones. We took out that capability so we could better play mid. Some advantages of this is that when we do play mid, we don't need to be cautious around the bumps/transitions. We can't even get up onto the bump, so there is no possibility of us flipping over.

dcherba 09-04-2010 14:12

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Team 3234 rookie year looks forward to competing and from the Michigan Championship knows that even the top seeded teams can be shutdown with smart play by the opposing alliance. Looking foward to learning more about picking partners for the elimination rounds.

thefro526 09-04-2010 14:42

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach O (Post 950893)
No, we cannot go between zones. We took out that capability so we could better play mid. Some advantages of this is that when we do play mid, we don't need to be cautious around the bumps/transitions. We can't even get up onto the bump, so there is no possibility of us flipping over.

Gotcha.

Also, can you hang on the near side of the tower? Does the ball return interfere with your hanging mechanism?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to get a better feel for your machine.

Sumathi 09-04-2010 14:47

Re: Curie 2010!
 
This going to be interesting, can't wait to see you guys there!

Zach O 09-04-2010 14:54

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 950915)
Gotcha.

Also, can you hang on the near side of the tower? Does the ball return interfere with your hanging mechanism?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to get a better feel for your machine.

I don't mind the questions at all. It's great when someone asks about your robot.

Before adding our ball director, I know we could hang in the near. I haven't seen it tested though, wether or not we can hang from the near with it on, although I'm 98% sure we can.

Edit: Just looked into it, the ball director does not interfere with us hanging from the near.

In the Mid/Near, the ball director doesn't interfere with hanging.

qzrrbz 09-04-2010 15:12

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Last I thought I knew, you can't even *touch* the horizontal bars under the ball return chutes, let alone hang from them!?!

So, while 2337 *can* hang from those, I suspect the *may* part is right out!

dcherba 09-04-2010 15:23

Re: Curie 2010!
 
As a Rookie team Mentor it was interesting to see some of the top seed teams held to less than 10 points in some of the matches. At the Michigan Championships a couple of New teams held 469 to just a few scores by simple playing strategy of starving them for balls. The prior competitive experiences helps but some of the Rookie teams have scored a lot of points this year. In one of our matches all three teams hung at the end for 6 points. The teams that score in autonomous also have an advantage. The scouting databases really don't capture some of that very well. Statistically based on seeding this divison is only 1.5 percentage points lower than Archemedies and almost 8 percentage points higher than the other two divisions.

Joe Ross 09-04-2010 17:17

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Similar to what I did in previous years, I ran through 200 simulated qualification match schedules (all 144 matches, using the FIRST match generator). I used each team's average opr for their contribution to a match. I calculated the standings for each of the 200 simulated qualification schedules, and then looked at some statistics from the aggregate results.

Code:

Team        Avg Rnk        Med Rnk        Mod Rnk        SD Rnk        Min Rnk        Max Rnk        #1 seed        Top 8        Avg SS        Med SS        Stdv SS        Min SS        Max SS
1114        1.265        1        1        0.48        1        3        150        200        282.415        283        14.12        231        314
469        1.785        2        2        0.48        1        3        49        200        266.71        267.5        15.19        230        309
573        6.495        5        3        5.01        1        38        1        158        209.28        211        23.28        133        271
1986        6.22        5        3        4.24        2        30        0        161        210.265        211        21.16        142        252
1676        11.085        9        5        7.79        2        38        0        97        189.405        190        23.27        134        241
1732        11.98        10        6        7.70        3        40        0        85        185.9        185        24.46        131        247
27        12.095        10        12        8.25        3        52        0        79        185.29        185        24.23        110        249
111        11.81        10        8        7.21        3        37        0        85        185.16        186        21.83        127        244
2775        12.15        10        5        8.43        3        61        0        82        185.375        187        23.72        95        231
2345        12.005        10.5        6        7.65        3        41        0        77        185.955        185        23.35        127        243
2337        11.925        10        9        7.52        3        44        0        77        185.715        186        22.00        123        235
231        22.31        20        9        13.41        4        72        0        22        160.65        161.5        27.15        86        230
175        23.825        22        17        11.92        4        59        0        22        156.12        157        23.31        100        212
1511        24.03        21        19        13.57        4        61        0        16        157.175        159        25.51        96        223
368        21.895        19        12        11.76        5        63        0        13        160.79        163        23.43        100        216
1912        22.725        20        17        12.52        3        62        0        18        158.945        160        24.75        97        237
2612        23.055        21        21        12.15        4        65        0        15        158.565        161        24.06        94        210
2410        24.88        22        20        13.43        3        69        0        13        154.875        157        25.95        82        221
624        23.975        21        14        13.07        4        74        0        16        156.74        159        25.19        78        213
1421        24.265        22        16        13.66        3        72        0        24        156.91        157        27.32        83        241
830        23        20.5        23        13.44        3        64        0        26        158.8        160.5        26.33        96        222
88        23.89        21        14        13.98        3        66        0        19        157.38        157.5        27.38        88        217
386        22.155        21        21        11.09        3        61        0        25        159.895        159        23.80        100        224
291        26.065        24        24        13.80        5        73        0        11        152.585        153        25.63        71        220
1538        23.245        21        20        11.88        4        60        0        15        157.345        158.5        23.37        100        213
2557        38.905        39        41        17.16        8        84        0        2        130.305        130        28.04        55        195
126        39.285        36        28        16.03        4        79        0        2        129.24        133        25.54        70        206
192        39.04        38        37        16.44        8        77        0        1        129.595        130        25.81        70        192
816        37.655        37        30        14.73        6        83        0        1        131.44        133        23.49        62        194
2992        39.805        38.5        34        15.95        9        81        0        0        128.14        127.5        25.23        72        184
2169        37.515        39        24        15.17        6        78        0        3        132.265        130.5        25.45        63        212
1649        37.81        38        42        14.76        6        80        0        3        131.95        129        24.43        67        199
171        41.76        39        27        16.26        8        82        0        2        125.525        127        25.30        64        194
3186        38.83        38        42        15.73        8        78        0        1        129.955        128        25.51        61        189
40        37.87        37        32        15.14        5        81        0        2        131.395        132        24.75        65        199
138        39.77        39        35        15.30        10        83        0        0        128.27        129        24.47        57        182
1391        37.3        35        35        16.40        6        81        0        4        132.53        132        27.33        65        204
1379        37.56        37.5        41        15.95        6        75        0        4        132.73        131        26.37        77        199
1033        39.77        39        23        16.26        11        79        0        0        128.715        129        25.74        62        185
3234        39.94        41        26        15.89        7        78        0        1        128.075        125.5        24.88        67        188
2648        40.715        39        38        15.53        5        74        0        4        127.23        126.5        24.43        67        198
1764        41.16        39.5        32        15.75        5        82        0        3        126.115        127        25.16        54        202
388        37.25        36        15        15.73        3        79        0        4        133.07        133        26.12        66        214
537        37.48        35        22        14.90        9        74        0        0        132.07        135        23.97        74        191
3145        38.47        37        31        16.17        6        85        0        3        130.435        129.5        26.25        54        203
3284        40.035        40        25        16.90        10        81        0        0        128.16        126        26.92        65        188
191        38.82        39        43        15.94        5        76        0        2        130.395        129        25.87        74        206
1980        38.205        37        37        15.40        7        82        0        2        130.6        131        24.62        51        197
2252        57.825        58.5        77        15.73        17        85        0        0        100.16        101        24.84        40        169
440        56.48        59        65        15.71        18        86        0        0        102.34        100        24.41        46        171
1126        56.395        57        53        15.83        15        85        0        0        102.095        104        24.98        42        170
3230        56.345        57        53        16.10        15        86        0        0        102.215        100        25.48        37        173
2583        58.72        60.5        51        15.44        15        86        0        0        98.835        97.5        24.58        36        169
3142        59.165        60        72        15.25        10        86        0        0        97.865        97        24.00        41        184
340        57.09        59        62        15.85        10        85        0        0        100.89        98        25.15        29        181
288        58.57        60        74        15.30        22        85        0        0        98.94        97        23.66        49        153
3299        55.41        56.5        58        15.54        15        85        0        0        103.835        104        24.12        41        167
1334        57.11        59        62        15.63        12        86        0        0        101.485        99.5        24.23        53        174
237        58.725        59        70        15.08        15        86        0        0        98.37        98.5        23.63        37        167
115        55.285        58        68        15.76        11        86        0        0        104.055        101.5        23.84        50        177
1306        56.02        57        50        15.89        11        86        0        0        103.005        102        25.10        38        178
2865        58.51        60        60        16.58        10        85        0        0        99.215        97        25.78        45        190
223        58.015        60        72        16.10        12        86        0        0        99.75        98        25.47        46        178
888        56.735        58        55        15.90        16        85        0        0        101.375        101.5        25.07        39        167
832        56.21        58        63        15.19        17        83        0        0        102.995        103        23.48        54        164
1398        54.95        53        51        16.15        16        86        0        0        103.775        106        24.95        47        168
931        58.155        58.5        57        15.55        12        85        0        0        99.8        100        24.80        43        180
2041        57.77        58.5        65        15.44        11        86        0        0        100.525        99        24.44        31        179
3207        55.63        56.5        65        15.15        17        85        0        0        103.26        102        23.61        48        162
692        72.855        75        84        11.59        35        86        0        0        73.76        72.5        22.35        24        138
597        70.05        73        83        13.33        27        86        0        0        79.41        78        23.59        30        142
2667        70.915        74.5        84        12.91        26        86        0        0        76.58        74        24.32        22        141
1747        73.23        76        86        11.82        24        86        0        0        72.84        72        22.30        25        149
141        71.34        75        78        12.47        22        86        0        0        76.785        74        22.38        23        146
3271        71.475        74        82        11.76        35        86        0        0        77.08        76.5        21.21        30        131
75        72.27        75        84        11.16        30        86        0        0        75.045        73.5        21.66        21        141
1350        71.51        75        76        11.60        27        86        0        0        76.785        74.5        22.03        23        154
1251        73.015        76        78        11.64        24        86        0        0        73.285        72        22.40        27        141
3405        71.795        74        85        11.87        25        86        0        0        75.54        76        23.13        21        158
2550        70.475        73        84        13.16        28        86        0        0        77.535        77        24.73        30        146
296        70.84        74        77        12.74        20        86        0        0        77.515        78        23.47        23        153
48        71.735        75        81        12.43        33        86        0        0        75.985        73        22.67        23        144
2449        72.16        75.5        86        12.26        32        86        0        0        74.58        73        23.39        24        143
1075        71.87        74.5        81        11.79        30        86        0        0        75.74        75.5        22.38        24        138
2630        71.77        74        82        11.74        24        86        0        0        76.305        75        21.79        26        157
3339        71.5        73.5        82        12.36        20        86        0        0        76.205        75        22.38        20        155


Blackphantom91 09-04-2010 18:11

Re: Curie 2010!
 
I would like to personally wish all the teams in Curie Good Luck! It will be very interesting and exciting to see the best robots go at it!

Zach O 09-04-2010 18:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Joe: That's really cool! Thank you for posting the data, now we know what to beat!

Dustin: I looked into it with our robot, and if we end up playing near, the only way for us to hang is to take off our ball director (which we wouldn't be using anyways), drive up to the bump on our side, and using only one hook, hit the side of the tower from near. Obviously, risky, but I guess we can do it. And if we're gonna play near, we'd know in advance.

Vermeulen 09-04-2010 18:32

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Holy crap... 469, 1114, 2337, and 111 in the same division? This is going to be fun!

haye321 09-04-2010 21:16

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermeulen (Post 951082)
Holy crap... 469, 1114, 2337, and 111 in the same division? This is going to be fun!

ITS GOING TO BE INTENSE!!...I'd be willing to bet that the alliance that Curie sends to Einstein will at the very least be Einstein finalists if not the winner.

kenavt 09-04-2010 21:20

Re: Curie 2010!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by haye321 (Post 951258)
ITS GOING TO BE INTENSE!!...I'd be willing to bet that the alliance that Curie sends to Einstein will at the very least be Einstein finalists if not the winner.

The thing is that the Curie winner faces up against the Archimedes winner, and Archimedes is just as good this year.


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