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Curie 2010!
Woot! I get to start the party for Curie 2010. It's definitely shaping up (since it's technically not final yet) to be a pretty intense division. Who's going to be joining NJ and VA winners Team 1676 there?
7 days until competition starts! |
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Here's Ann Arbor Champs, 8th Alliance Captain at MSC, and Michigan's only suspension checking in.
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1114+469=doom. Simple.
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2775 is happy to be playing with so many friends. Looks like it will be quite competitive and a blast!
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if it's final...
830 is scared (1114 and 469 together, but ready to do battle. see you there! |
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I can't wait for Curie '10. |
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Instead of dreading the potential alliance think of ways to impress them so they want you to be part of it! |
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1114 or 469 would have to be the #1 seed for them to pair up.
If it doesnt happen, I'd pay money to see 1114 vs. 469 in eliminations. |
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Does having 111 in Curie mean we get Dan Green? I hope so.
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Hah, this should be a good one. I'm excited!
Alright everyone, let's show em' how it's done. I'd also like to impose a no-469-1114 rule, just to be fair. |
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We just had our first ever #1 seed this year, so who knows? |
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Speaking of Curie History, I seem to remember a certain unknown New Jersey team in 2009 seeding in the 6th position and Pulling off one (Almost two) of the craziest upsets in a long time. Will they do it again? I hope so. |
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Buzz Robotics FRC 175 will be attending the Atlanta Championship in the Curie Division! :D
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Unknown? You guys have a bigger target on your backs than some of the "Powerhouses" this year. :p |
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Or us unknowns from Canada :P
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Team 2612 is eager to do battle once again either with or against team 469. After falling to them in the finals at Cass Tech, the quarters in Troy, and again in the finals at the Michigan Championship, we claim the eminent distinction of knowing first hand how not to defeat them. :)
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1398 will be in full effect on Curie, in many ways its home division. (Three of the team's four past trips to Atlanta have led here, the exception being 2008 on Archimedes.)
We'll be bringing one third of the Palmetto Regional winning alliance, a cheering section bent on giving TJ^2 a run for its money, and a lot of 2815's mentors since the two collaborated closely this year. This oughta be fun. |
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Note: I'm on the Archimedes field, not Curie!
I'm predicting two things: 1. 1114 and 469 do not wind up on the same alliance OR 2. They wind up on the same alliance but do not win the division. Sounds out there, but don't hand them the trophy there are a lot of others teams here than can bring good competition! :D |
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EDIT: On second thought - It sure would be a shame to waste all that time we spent lulling them into a false sense of security. |
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1511 is excited & ready to go! :D
It's great to be with our fellow Rochesterians 191, 340, and 1126, as well as all of those teams we know and love from around the country! As my last official FIRST Event as a student, I can't wait to cap off my high school FIRST career with another great experience. |
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Were all excited here in KC to be back in Curie! This divison looks stacked! Should be exccellent competetion.
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We're happy just to get a chance to play again after our first week regional. Man it is a long slog from week 1 to Championships. We hope with this deep field we'll finally get to see if our ball looper works as well as it did in practice. We are quite happy with our kicker and possessor since it helped us win the Bayou but we want to see our true concept in action.
Good luck to everyone in Curie. And seeing as we're unknown we'll be happy to finally get to play Saturday afternoon. I've mentored 5 years and been to Atlanta twice already and this my third, I just want to dance Saturday afternoon. :-) |
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Let's get some spirit in here :)
MADAME... |
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CURIE !!!
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However, I wish the best to all teams attending Curie 2010, and lets show them this is the field to be at! |
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Team 1676 plans on giving 469 and 1114 a run for their money whether we are with them or not!!
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Heres 573 checking in: Winners of the Ann Arbor District (with our friends 2337), 4th Alliance Capitan at MSC, and official 469 autonomous stopper. :D
I'm so pumped. Curie is going to be such a great division this year! There are plenty of really good teams! Its going to be interesting! |
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-Clinton- |
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During the quals... Say 1114 (or 469) is red, then the two red robots could park in front of their own goal while the 3 blue robots play normally. Yes, the red robots would be sacrificing themselves for the match, but they would help keep 469 and 1114 away from the number 1 seed. Lose the battle, win the war. Do I like the idea? No. Could it help break up a hugely powerful alliance? Yes. Will it work? Yet to be determined... |
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And if 469 and 1114 get together, 30+ points is what you are capable of! ;) |
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In all seriousness, I am a bit intimidated at the fact of 469 and 1114 being on our field, but 1676 is going to do the best they can to succeed on Curie; watch out, there's a new powerhouse on the block this year. I cannot wait to see you all there on the field, good luck to all teams! |
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It looks like we'll be in this division.
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Looks like a good group we have here. I've worked with many of these teams at my regionals this year, and look forward to meeting new ones on the field.
I'll be around the field, those of you on a drive team should be able to find me. Wetzel |
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I'm simply trying to think outside the box on how to prevent a 1114 and 469 alliance and the best way to do that is to prevent the two from being the number 1 seed. I'd love to see the match up of 1114 vs 469! |
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And to teams 1114 and 469: You guys have some amazing robots and I hope you guys do well on Curie this year! :) |
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What an awesome division to be a part of, with so many excellent teams and two of this year's stand-outs in 469 & 1114.
With 10 matches in the qualification schedule, there's an ~40% chance we'll get to play as part of an alliance with one of them - and a 100% chance if we somehow end up as #1 seed :p Quote:
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some one know how much robots can hang in curie and their statistics?
Team 3339 will be in her rookie year in curie! |
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I was fairly certain taking a red card affects the whole alliance.
EDIT: I stand corrected, <T11> and <T12> |
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Though, if you wanted to you could incur a substantial amount of penalties to make sure your alliances loses. Once again, it's not GP, but it'll work. |
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Another interesting strategy might be to ALWAYS play 6v0 against them. Minimize their coopertition points.
We did this in Waterloo, and set what may well be a record 6v0 match at 24-0. |
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Or you could play the game instead of gaming the game.
469 and 1114 ARE beatable. Rather than figuring out how to use the system against them why not just out play them? Plus, if I see any of these "strategies" used I will just root for 1114/469 harder. |
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6v0 doesn't make you jump ahead of them in QP, it boosts you both at the same time. If you're trying to form a well constructed lower seed alliance, then go for it. |
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Not to start a whole 6v0 thread again, but I still don't see how going 6v0 makes any dominant team beatable.
Going 6v0 gives all teams the same points, but those points are still pretty darn high. A 25-0 match is better that a 7-5 match in terms of seeding points. Yes, you don't give them the coopertition points, but if they're getting that many seeding points consistently, who cares about coopertition points. If a dominant team were to play every match as 6v0 and get 25 points each match, 10 matches later they have 250 seeding points. If you play in one of those matches, you get your 25 points, but the rest of the matches average, say, 15 points, you're sitting at 160. In the end, the 25 points that you (and everyone else that played 6v0 against them) gave them has widened the gap between them and the rest of the field. If I were that dominant team, I would welcome any 6v0 match that was going to yield me an easy 25 points. If you're playing 6v0 to help yourself, this is probably perfectly fine. You get your points and move up, and the dominant team stays ahead. However, if you're trying to dethrone the dominant team, you're probably better off trying to keep the score low to lessen the gap. |
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How does sitting in front of your own goals show 469/1114, or any other team that you would be a good partner in finals? This is champs. The last time for alot of drive teams or the first time. 6v0 is asking alot. What i would like to see is every alliance on every field in the first match play a forced 6v0.:confused: It would just show the powers that be how silly this seeding system is.
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A word...
If I were you, I would worry less about how to dethrone the best and more about how to win the division. If the MSC matches are any indication, it is possible to beat an alliance with two effective scorers and 469. Which would you rather be, the robot that brings 469 to #2 seed, that no one remembers? Or the alliance that performed the most shocking eliminations upset in FRC history? I know a lot of random FIRST facts, but I have no idea who or how 1114 seeded less than 1st on Curie on 2007. I do know that 1732 / 67 / 48 performed a controversial upset. If you're trying to make history, take em down in eliminations. |
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A note on 6v0 that I think teams should realize: Even though you do go up in ranking, is sends the other teams up in ranking too. So while everyone will play 6v0 against 469 and 1114, the same people will complain when they are #1 and #2.
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Along the lines of beating 469...
217 beat them once in qualifying at Cass Tech, tied them at Troy (and then got demolished), beat them in MSC qualifying, and then went 1-2-1 in the finals at MSC. That's a 3-2-2 record so far this year. And, if you take a look at one of the matches, their strategy to beat 469 isn't really that complex either. I see at least one team doing this to 469 during Curie and having identical success. If there's an upset with 469 losing in the elims, there'll be a team doing that. My $0.02. |
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I'm calling it now. Curie devision is going to win the Championship.
1114, 469, and a third team, some random picks: 832, 2775. And oh wow! I didn't even notice 111 is in there also. Some tough competition in there. |
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So, to segway away from the 469 discussion.
Are there any other "strikers" in the field? We're a "striker" and managed to make it to the finals in New Jersey. We're planning on modifying our ball possessor once again for the Championship to see if we can eliminate our carrying problem. (Striker(s) is in quotes because technically any team can be a striker but there are some teams where this is what they prefer to do, and are very good at it) |
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I would like to insert Team 1986 into the mix! Youngest undefeated team in the United States (something 469 has not been able to do this year)!
Curie's gonna be real good! |
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With the whole 'undefeated' thing (because i have no idea how to put a quote into a reply), if there is some way to get an upper hand in this division, it definitely wouldn't hurt!
By no means am i trying to take anything away from 469, cuz they're still amazing, but I'm just trying to say that they ARE beatable, and there will definitely be a lot of craziness going on in the Curie Division! |
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I also look every year to try and be the team that upsets the big boys with our little underdog robot. :-) We get better each year as me and my fellow mentor and the students learn more tricks about the games. This year we hit on the looper strategy, but didn't get the awesome implementation of 469 since we kill the potential energy to deflect the ball not use it to go straight in the goal. But that lesson learned is going in the bible for future years. :-) I learn more each year from the teams that have been doing it 20 years, and hope one year that a team I am mentoring will at least be a somewhat known team like the big boys. We are inspired, as is the goal of FIRST, to try and better ourselves to compete at that level. We are looking forward to getting to play in Curie because it means we have a slight chance of playing with some of these awesome teams during qualifiers and get another chance to learn a few tricks. Good game to all, we have a reasonable goal this year just to play on Saturday afternoon for qualifiers. If we can pull that off everything else is just gravy. :-) |
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To go back to what Chris said before, I agree that teams shouldn't focus on seeding higher than them, but start strategizing on how to beat a 469/1114 alliance. Unless you play them all 10 qualification matches, you cannot control what they do. The best you can do is to attempt to maximize your seeding points and hope for the best. I think it would be wise to start thinking of ways to beat a 469/1114 alliance because its better to think of that stuff now than lunch time Saturday. After finishing pre-scouting, I hope to come up with an initial list of teams that can fulfill our strategy to pull off the upset. I think a 469/1114 alliance is likely, although I hope it doesn't happen (unless we are their 3rd partner). A part of me wants to go against 469/1114. Going into the match, you have nothing to lose. No pressure, no expectations, nothing. All the pressure is on them. Just go into the match with a good strategy and hope the ball bounces your way. |
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I for one will be thinking of ways to beat them, and then if we are fortunate enough to play with any of them I won't have to worry about beating them anymore. |
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Anyway, thought I'd insert a little anecdote. Just don't assume there won't be expectations when there probably will be anyway. This is the Championship. |
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I highly doubt we'd see a 1114/469/2337 alliance, purely because 2337's main feature (the ability to suspend) is useless to 1114, since they hang from the vertical bar.
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However that doesn't mean we can't do these things from the offensive or defensive zones. -Clinton- |
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I was by no means trying to minimize your other contributions to an alliance, however, I suspect 2337 is most likely to be picked for an alliance for that feature, which is of little use to a 1114/469 pair.
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Perhaps I'm my value of teams are incorrect, but I think that if 469/1114 pair up, they will be the favorites. You are not expected to beat them and thus you have no expectations. When you play them, you have to take advantage of any possible advantage you have and one is the proper pressure-free mindset.
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Team 3234 rookie year looks forward to competing and from the Michigan Championship knows that even the top seeded teams can be shutdown with smart play by the opposing alliance. Looking foward to learning more about picking partners for the elimination rounds.
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Also, can you hang on the near side of the tower? Does the ball return interfere with your hanging mechanism? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to get a better feel for your machine. |
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This going to be interesting, can't wait to see you guys there!
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Before adding our ball director, I know we could hang in the near. I haven't seen it tested though, wether or not we can hang from the near with it on, although I'm 98% sure we can. Edit: Just looked into it, the ball director does not interfere with us hanging from the near. In the Mid/Near, the ball director doesn't interfere with hanging. |
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Last I thought I knew, you can't even *touch* the horizontal bars under the ball return chutes, let alone hang from them!?!
So, while 2337 *can* hang from those, I suspect the *may* part is right out! |
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As a Rookie team Mentor it was interesting to see some of the top seed teams held to less than 10 points in some of the matches. At the Michigan Championships a couple of New teams held 469 to just a few scores by simple playing strategy of starving them for balls. The prior competitive experiences helps but some of the Rookie teams have scored a lot of points this year. In one of our matches all three teams hung at the end for 6 points. The teams that score in autonomous also have an advantage. The scouting databases really don't capture some of that very well. Statistically based on seeding this divison is only 1.5 percentage points lower than Archemedies and almost 8 percentage points higher than the other two divisions.
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Similar to what I did in previous years, I ran through 200 simulated qualification match schedules (all 144 matches, using the FIRST match generator). I used each team's average opr for their contribution to a match. I calculated the standings for each of the 200 simulated qualification schedules, and then looked at some statistics from the aggregate results.
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Team Avg Rnk Med Rnk Mod Rnk SD Rnk Min Rnk Max Rnk #1 seed Top 8 Avg SS Med SS Stdv SS Min SS Max SS |
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I would like to personally wish all the teams in Curie Good Luck! It will be very interesting and exciting to see the best robots go at it!
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Joe: That's really cool! Thank you for posting the data, now we know what to beat!
Dustin: I looked into it with our robot, and if we end up playing near, the only way for us to hang is to take off our ball director (which we wouldn't be using anyways), drive up to the bump on our side, and using only one hook, hit the side of the tower from near. Obviously, risky, but I guess we can do it. And if we're gonna play near, we'd know in advance. |
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Holy crap... 469, 1114, 2337, and 111 in the same division? This is going to be fun!
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