Conflict with Mentor
 

I've waited a while before posting this to allow myself some time to focus my thoughts as well as to distance myself from the situation. Some background information: This is my team's 3rd year, I'm a senior, and this is my second year on the team.

On many small teams, the Chairman's essay often becomes the task of a few individuals and that is no exception on my team. Since I've been on the team, that task has fallen to me. As I enjoy writing and working on the awards, it's not a big issue, especially when only a few students were interested in that aspect of the award. Regardless, the award has, more or less, become my project.

On the Wednesday before our first competition, one of our mentors, arrived at the shop (our build site) at about 8pm to pick students to work on the Chairman's display at his house. (Yes, it should have been done much earlier, but that's neither here nor there.) I asked him if he would bring me back to the shop once we were done. He said no, but he would take me home. I told him that I didn't want to go then, I'd rather finish the kicker for the robot. He then told me that if I didn't go, I wouldn't be able to present. I finally agreed to go after another mentor volunteered to pick me back up once I was done working on Chairman's. So I went.

The group of us arrived at his house. There, I discover there is someone else interested in joining the team and could be one of the people presenting. The meeting was largely unproductive as many of the students couldn't focus, however, we did manage to get the presentation outlined. At this point, it was already 10pm, and many students were about to be taken home. I called the mentor who offered to pick me up and returned to the shop to work on that blasted kicker. (We had some...issues with it.)

So, on Friday morning, I discover I'm not presenting. One of the presenters was the new person I mentioned. She has never shown up at a meeting, knows very little about the team, or what we've done, and, hasn't shown up since. In fact, she wasn't at the second day of competition either.

So now, the members of Chief Delphi, what would be the best way to go about confronting the mentor in question? I feel that I should have been entitled to be one of the presenters. Not only is it my last year on the team, but I spent hours working on the award, when my time and energy could have been greatly used by other parts of my team.

Please note, I'm not asking for criticism on our Chairman's “process” as I know it needs a LOT of work and better time management. I'm asking for the best way to professionally address this issue.

Thank you,
Kimberly

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

One of my suggestions would be to talk to the mentor about letting you assist the new team member. Since you know more about your robot and the team. If it still becomes a issue I would say ask another mentor to talk with them so that you may get a good understanding as to why you were not chosen to present over a new student.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I'm going to preempt the next few posts that people are thinking about writing:

"Don't air your dirty laundry"

"It's unprofessional to post publicly about such things and it embarrasses your team"

There, now that we got the concern trolling out of the way...

Most teams have an "executive committee" or at least a lead mentor/team leader to talk to and resolve such issues. I suggest going to them to resolve this conflict. One thing you may want to avoid is saying that you're entitled to present, no matter how much you worked on it. I'd stick with graciously arguing your ability to communicate the team's strengths to the judges. Maybe give an outline of how you were planning on presenting the information. But for pete's sake, do not argue how much you deserve or are entitled to give the presentation.

Barring that, or if the mentor in question is the lead mentor, then maybe you have to acknowledge the fact that even though you may be right, it's not worth fighting over and just let it go. Senior year is way too much fun to waste on worrying about a Chairmans presentation, which seems important now, but in a few years, you realize that it's just small change.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

These type of issues belong here- http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=124 Is it to late to move it?

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

The easiest way that I see (from a student's perspective) to deal with the situation would be suggesting a student power structure.

Simply put, it's going to be difficult for you to make any kind of power changes during the season. Putting a simple structure in for your team to create a hierarchy can make everything more organized, not just chairman's. Furthermore, it will empower students to fill those positions, and really give each person a specific purpose and title (which everyone seems to like ;) ).

I know that, for our team, the decisions for who presents Chairman's and what is said is almost completely student-controlled. Our Director of Public Relations is in charge of making those decisions, and final decisions are run by the mentor and explained to show a logical thought process behind it.

Frankly, if you begin to make your team run more like a business then people become accountable, and if people are accountable then logic will take precedence over preference. I know that our team would never have allowed someone who hadn't even been to a meeting present our Chairman's award, it is simply illogical to hope that the person will be able to absorb everything they need to in such a short period.

In short, by adding more structure to your team, it will take away some of the unnecessary stress from your mentor, as well as empower the students to stand up for their opinions. While it's not foolproof, it's a good step forward for any team.

If you're looking for a less...formal approach, let me be the first to say that conflict solves nothing, unless it is done with care and tact. Realize that even though this mentor may have made a decision you disagree with, this person has made the effort to mentor your team, and still deserves your respect.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

These sound like the types of conflicts that occur between professional engineers and Program Managers. In all honesty, the mentorship may have made a decision based upon information that you didn't know, or more probably they made a decision based upon information you simply do not like. The info could have ranged from everything dealing with the lack of time management to how well she spoke under pressure. It's not really worth conjecture though.

The only thing you're 'entitled' to is an explanation, but only if you're not confronting in your approach to the mentor(s) who made the decision. Past that, it's not really worth it in your last year of high school. If you're going to Atlanta then enjoy the Championships; if not then enjoy the rest of the school year. Either way, regardless of whether it was a weighted decision, impulsive decision, success or mistake the only thing you can really do is get over it and move on.

The only reason you would want an explanation is so that you do not make the same mistake again in the future.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I applaud the way this post was written, I like how you made sure to not mention anyone by name and kept the specifics to a minimum.

Onto the subject of the post though, I've had my own problems with team leadership and addressing problems with a mentor is not an easy thing to do. I'd suggest sitting down with the mentor in question with at least one other Adult present and discussing your issues. Stay very polite and very impartial and you should get the answer you're looking for, but it may not be what you want to hear.

Good luck.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I think something important to remember is that mentors put a lot of time into this and that he probably thought that it was the best thing for him to do. Another thing is that having mentored FLL, I know how hard mentoing can be and I think that you need to realize that mentors have to walk a very fine line between teaching and guiding. So please keep in mind if you talk to that mentor that his job is very hard and that he only had everyone's best interest at heart also, remember that sometimes the student can become the teacher which I think is the best thing that could happen now.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

As a senior, there's not much they can do to appease you other than apologize at this point. However, there is a lot you can do to help move your team forward still.

One of the most important things you can do is work to create a team handbook. You would need input from all members of the team and from the mentors. The most important thing you can put in it is the roles and responsibilities of everyone on the team. This won't be a simple weekend project - it'll takes weeks of revisions, drafts, and meetings to get it just right for your team.

Two years ago, two of our graduating seniors started a handbook like that. It's evolved since that initial draft, but it does help make clear where the responsibilities on the team are.

What type of team do you (and by you, i mean the entire team, not just the single individual posting here) want to have? How much responsibility do you want the students to have? How much involvement do you want the mentors to have (ranging between the extremes of the mentors design and build everything, to the mentors have their hands tied behind their back every time they enter the shop)? What is the leadership structure like? What is the team structure like (for example, are there clearly differentiated subteams covering specific areas?)?


However with the season quickly approaching the end (or already there, if you aren't going to championships), this is a great time to do a retrospective. We typically do two at the end of each year - one with just the mentors present, and another with the entire team. Focus on both the good and the bad. What went well this year? What didn't go so well? From this, you can develop a list of action items, things that need to be done for next year (or over the summer). To give you an example, here are a few items we have on the list to talk about at the mentor meeting in a few weeks:
Good:
- Intense strategy discussions on kickoff weekend, Mon/Tue had great impact on design drive through build season
- tough boxes work well - easy solution for the encoder mounting - can be cut down for a single CIM motor for more clearance

Not so good:
- Chain tensioners - they worked OK, but need better access / possilby different mechanism.
- Need more rigorous design reviews to quickly identify potential problems

Action items (made up on the spot here):
- Jimbo will work with students Jon and Jane to develop the chain tensioner concept over the summer to better be able to handle this during the build season
- During the build season, there will be a weekly mentor+team leaders design review every Sat. afternoon. Plan 30 min per component.

The key to a retrospective is to avoid blaming, avoid putting down any ideas, avoid direct criticism of anybody. Everyone needs to go in with an open mind and with the goal of making things better for the team next year. To help with that, I've been in groups where a pot was put in the middle at the beginning, and ever time someone criticized or put down someone else they had to put $1 in the pot. Then at the end of the day, we used the pot for dinner (plus a little more from the manager when the pot was too small).

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Exactly. We have one of those that we've been accumulating for about 4 years now, and I can tell you, it's been completely invaluable to our successes.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I do see an issue here.

It's not that the student was replaced. That's a mentor's call.

It's who the student was replaced with.

Somebody who shows up at exactly one breakout meeting and and one day of an event, and isn't part of the team before then should not be treated as a member of the team for the presentation. This is made worse when said person, who knows little to nothing about the team, replaces one of the persons who wrote the RCA essay, who knows more and can expand on the presentation if asked.

I also see that a mentor is having an offsite activity for students who want to present the RCA. I don't see a problem with that. I think that's a good thing, actually. I also don't see that there's a problem with saying that if you aren't there, you can't present (unless extenuating circumstances are not accounted for).

Where I do see an issue is the refusal of reverse transportation, and then saying, "If you're not there, you can't present." In this case, that was worked around quite well. I'd suggest making the latter statement first.

I also see the timing as an issue. 2 days after this happens, the morning of the presentation, is when the announcement is made. Bad call. If the mentor was going to pull the OP off the presenters, it should have been done at least the day before, if at all possible.

What I would suggest: Talk to another mentor or two about this. Explain how you felt, etc. Then ask them to come with you to talk to (not confront) the mentor who was in charge of the RCA submission. Find out what his reasons were, and let the mentors explain why it's a bad idea to do that if they feel that it is necessary to do so. (Note: it may be a good idea to have a mentor--preferably the lead mentor--who hasn't heard either side to moderate if needed.)

In addition to the structure suggestions above, of course. Maybe set a ground rule that any student who wants to do certain tasks (drive, present, pit crew, you get the picture) has to have been at [a reasonable minimum number of] meetings in order to be considered, barring extenuating circumstances. Having that alone in the team handbook could save a lot of frustration in the future.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Makes me remember this spotlight quote:
Perhaps that is what is happening here.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

The mentor is our lead mentor, which is where part of the problem is. Due to work, he has made very few meetings which I don't hold against him, as work does come first. However, this has made it very hard for him to lead the team as we have gone up to two weeks without hearing from him.

A different mentor (teacher/coach) worked with the awards team throughout the year, both before and during build season. He is also the "middle-man" between students and mentors. He was the first person I went to, to have this resolved. While I don't remember specifics of the conversation, I remember feeling like the issue was dismissed with a comment along the lines of "these things happen." Granted, they do, and I would be less frustrated if it was handled differently.

I agree that I'm not entitled to present, and I should have worded that differently. However, it is highly frustrating, and I would like an explanation. The change was made last minute, without any discussion with the rest of the team. None of the mentors even knew until after the presentation. Also, I wasn't told I wouldn't be presenting by the mentor, which is where a large part of my frustration comes from. I was in the pits of the rookie team we mentor, when I received a text from one of the presenters saying responding that she couldn't come help me as she was about to go present. In other words, I was "told" I wasn't presenting, by not being told at all.

It's been hard for our team to get a general consensus on anything like a handbook, which is something I'd love to have. We're a "young" team - out of 14 students, we have 1 sophomore, and 3 seniors, the rest of the team are either freshmen or 8th graders, with 3 of them younger than that. In addition, for over half of them, this is their rookie year. Now, more than ever, I'm going to push for the team to commit to this so that something like this cannot happen again.

I appreciate everyone's input, and I am trying to approach this as tactfully and professionally as possible. I wanted to avoid an impulsive discussion where I might say things that are impulsive or inappropriate and would cause problems rather than resolve them, hence waiting.

Thank you.

And for those wondering, I chose to post it here over FAHA because here, I am more accountable to what is being said, and I won't be tempted to say things that perhaps shouldn't be said.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

As a mentor (I was also a student on a team many years ago), I will agree that our job is very difficult and we sometimes have to make the unpopular decisions. However, I personally favor commitment to the team, dedication to the program and a willingness to learn above almost everything else. I understand your frustration in having someone chosen to present who seems to have (I don’t know the situation) put in far less effort than you. I feel that you have to earn positions on the team, i.e. presenter, driver, human player, captain, etc. You do this through hard work and dedication.

I would suggest the following. Speak to another mentor on the team, someone you feel comfortable with. Leave your ego at the door and don’t use words like entitled. Instead talk about how it made you feel (I know, insert corny psychiatrist jokes here) and how can all of you work on the team to ensure future success. I really like team handbooks. Having everything in black and white makes things a lot easier. I do have to caution you that just because you did not see this other person much doesn’t mean they didn’t help the team. We had two students last who did the whole animation on their own and we didn’t see them until the end.

Lastly, I know this was a hard blow. But please don’t let this one negative experience cloud your whole FIRST experience. In any team environment there may be problems or even hurt feelings. When you look back in a year or two, don’t focus on this moment but rather the awesome experience of being on a FIRST team and your happy memories of it.

Best of luck,
JGecko146

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Ah, the old lack of communication...

I think that if you talk to the other mentors and explain that 1) the student replacing you was not part of the team until the meeting where the presentation was worked on and 2) there was a severe communication breakdown where you weren't told that you weren't presenting, until someone said that they were presenting, you might get one or two that are willing to go in and have a sit-down meeting with the mentor in question.

What you want to know is: 1) Why were you not informed? 2) Why was the change made? In that order, might I add. Also use that meeting to get mentors to support the adoption of a team handbook, written by the team in the time left this year.

The lack of communication is the #1 worst problem a team can have. (Trust me, I've been on a team that had a major communications breakdown. It wasn't pretty.) When you do a handbook (and I'd recommend using your senior status to your advantage here, to get one done), you'll want to address communication guidelines--official channels, timeliness, emergency, etc.--as well as general team rules on meetings, participation, and all the other stuff that you'll find in the various handbooks posted on CD or on the FIRST site.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Communication as also been an issue on the team for as long as I can remember and we've yet to find a way to over come it. I've spent the last few hours looking though team handbooks, and am compiling a list of what I'd like ours to cover. I know many of the mentors would be willing to work on this, but I worry about the willingness of the students. I think they some of them fail to see that the team is for them and they should take the opportunity to speak up so that the team is run the way they want it.

I love FIRST and all that it has to offer. It opens up so many more doors than the average high school activity, and it's something you can continue to do after high school. That is why I want to resolve this.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Our team uses a Google Group for most of our communication. There are certainly features we would like that a Google Group cannot provide, but for the ease of setup it's pretty difficult to beat it.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Don't let being a young team stop you. We started our handbook the summer after our second year... and everyone on the team was either new (joined for our summer program) or had only been there the previous year - no one from the first year remained as student members. The two who really got the handbook going were dedicated members who had just graduated (one had been with the team both years, the other only the second year). So being a young team can't hurt. Additionally, that summer and the following school year, I believe we only had one senior on the team.

From your brief description of the mentor organization on the team, it sounds like it could stand to have a section in the handbook. The lead mentor's job isn't to make all the decisions for the team, despite the power trip some people may be on. They are supposed to ensure the smooth functioning of the team as a whole. In this situation, I would have expected the mentor/teacher/coach who worked with the awards team throughout the year to be the one "responsible" for everything dealing with the chairman's presentation - the lead mentor would only get involved if really needed (for example, the students want to meet and get feedback, but the coach wasn't available). Further, without being a very active part of the team, I'm not sure how the lead mentor can really fulfill his responsibilities - yeah, work comes first, but being out of communication for 2 weeks during a 6 week build season is a serious indication that it might be time to pass the responsibilities to someone else and let him take a smaller role on the team.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I get the impression this young lady's role as presenter was a foregone conclusion before it was announced.
There could be very good reasons why she was a better choice, for that specific role, than you.
Many teens are just not good at interacting with adults; maybe she is and the mentor felt you would not be.
I think the mentor could/should have anticipated the emotional fallout and exercised better people skills.
You should not be wondering why you were not chosen.
Even if explaining the reason would have been awkward for the mentor.
Even if the reason doesn't seem at all fair to you.
As others have suggested, talk to other mentors about your feelings in this matter -- but be prepared to listen as well.
This may have been the right decision handled the wrong way.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

As a student mentor to this team, I have to bring out a few misrepresentations.

Presenters were not identified until the night before (I'm talking like midnight) they were actually going to present, due to poor organization of the project. With the help of the new student, who put in A LOT of time with myself to learn about the process of chairman's and the team. The presentation was completed, visual display was completed, and oral presentation was created, outlined, prepared and practiced throughly by both myself, the lead mentor and other team members including the "new" student.
Just because a team member was not physically at your build site and working on the robot does not mean that they were new and/or not involved, so please, next time make sure you have all of your information before making accusations. I agree dirty laundry should not be aired, I suggest that you talk to the mentor in a professional manner if this is still bothering you.

Also, this mentor was not absent for 2 weeks, this is a gross inflation. He was always either in contact or reachable with a response within at most, an hour. Reguardless, Chief Delphi is NOT the place for this.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Sounds to me that both sides are true to their own perspectives and that a lack of communication occurred here.
To be honest, this shouldnt be posted here as its not imperative for the CD community to give you solutions/suggestions. But rather, the best way to resolve it is to talk to your mentor directly.
Every team has issues here/there and the best way we resolve our own challenges are discussions and clear communication amongst all members.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

These quotes echo my thoughts exactly.

When I have an issue with a program manager (good call Jesse) I know I'm at least entitled to an explanation. I approach it very openly, and make it perfectly clear that I'm not looking to blame or question the decision, instead my real intention is to get information along the lines of what thefro526 wrote - and I ask them to not mince words or dance around the topic: Say what needs to be said, brutal it may be.

(And, in some cases, it WAS brutal. And I did NOT like hearing it. But further honest reflection showed that it was true. And knowing 'my breath stinks' has helped me far more than any thanks and praise I've ever received.)

While the mentor is delivering their opinion/explanation.whatever, don't say anything (unless you didn't understand a word, then ask for a repeat). Do not interrupt, do not defend yourself - just listen. After they are done, be sure to thank them for their honest feedback, and close the books. Arguing or defending is not how to accept feedback. Someone who shares their opinion cannot be wrong - their opinion is their opinion.

Good luck, I hope you learn something for all this heartache.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Kimberly, give Chelsea a call. It really sounds like what you need to do is set up a student governance committee, as others have said. Here's another point: your roles and responsibilities should be laid out at the start of the year, and students should be heading each group and making decisions, with the INPUT of the mentors, but not the dictatorship of the mentors.

Without a set process in place before these types of conflicts occur, it's very difficult to reach a amicable and fair resolution because everyone ends up having a conflict of interest.

Lacking a set process, you should have a 'Head Mentor' whose responsibility it is to solve disputes. In the absence of THAT, or should the Head Mentor be the one causing the issues, you really need to have that governance board to fall back on to help resolve the issue.

Checks and balances, with student leadership and responsibility. It's the key to a team running well. Without it, it's all emotion and that never ends up in a good place.

Lastly, I'd like to say that all of this is easy to say, but very very hard to do. It took a very dedicated group of our students to get together and do it after 5 years, and if you asked them every one would say that our bylaws already need changes. You need a group of people who believe it's the right way to do things, and they need the drive to get it done. Think 1776 (the year, not the team).

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

At first glance, I can see how people might think this. But please re-read the OP. She was clearly giving a little bit of background information from her viewpoint and asking for advice. At first read, I thought this was the usual "dirty laundry" post...but it really isn't. It becomes clear when you ask what the dirty laundry was? There wasn't any being aired. It was simply advice for an appropriate response. She wasn't bashing anyone really. Yes, she made a few erroneous observations. But she wasn't doing it in the tone that leads to something being really negative. I don't believe her post was at all negative towards her team, the student, or really the mentor. She was very professional about it.

A final note: Don's post is an example of why this thread belongs here. That is honestly some of the best advice I've read here in weeks. It is something I still struggle with, but is very wise. If for nothing else, this thread belongs here because it brings out posts like that. Afterall, if we aren't here for some wisdom...what are we here for?

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

After following this thread, I was under the impression that Kimmeh spent time in places other than the shop, primarily on chairman's. I understand that there are more components to a team, but that is an unfair line to throw at someone in her position, especially because its seems to not apply.

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

If I may say so...

If anything, I feel that her going to people outside of the team was the smart thing to do. I have had some issues in the past with people on my team. Instead of coming to other FIRST members for advice in a calm fashion for some simple advice like she did, I aired my Dirty Laundry all around the team and did nothing to fix my problem. It didn't turn out well and I have some not so good relations with the said team member as well as many other because of my poor choices.

So there is nothing wrong with her coming to Chief Delphi for Advice. If anything she did the right thing to avoid causing long lasting Hard Feelings with the involved people in her problem

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Once again, thank you everyone for your words of advice and support. I truly appreciate it. I will take your advice to heart when I discuss this with the mentor.

I have reached the point where, for the most part, I've let it go. I'm just hurt that I "lost" my spot to present, something I feel I earned, to person that few knew was on the team, after all the work that I put in. I realize that in the scheme of my life, this is but a small thing. Regardless, it doesn't lessen the sting.

Thank you,
Kimberly

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

Kimmeh,

I know many people on my team have had problems with the mentors and their final opinions. I even was a part of one myself with the drivers on our team. Although it ended in my favor, I know the person that was put out was very upset about the situation. The best thing I told him was to realize that this isn't because you're bad in anyway. This happened to help us become better. The best thing was he was proud of me and our drive team isn't just one driver but all of us communicating to achieve victory.

I know your situation was much different. Next year, show them that you can be a leader and present in a great way. That way, you are the first to be chosen. Most things are politics and we have to live with them. Hell, I play football and all around it's either who is good or not or who they like the most. Impress them Kimmeh with all you got and be yourself. Things happen for a reason and you just need to shine above them! :)

REMEMBER!!! Actions Speak Louder Than Words!

Re: Conflict with Mentor
 

I've now talked with some other people and gotten a slightly clearer picture of the issue. I will simply ask EVERYONE reading this post to refrain from passing any type of judgement on the people named. Simply put, what you have heard here is a very small portion of the overall picture (as is always the case when someone chooses to bring an issue to a forum).

However, I think it's good that Kimmeh came out and let folks know how she felt. Sometimes that can be hard to do when speaking directly to someone and this will help the folks involved understand how she feels.

I will also thank everyone for the wonderful advice. I'm sure it will be put to very good use as this issue comes to a resolution.