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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
I am a teacher/mentor for one of the Canadian teams and we just arrived back this afternoon from a very long and eventful trip home from Atlanta. I just wanted to add in a few observations that my students and I discussed regarding this incredible event.
This was the first visit to the Championships for team 1075 and I will say that we did purchase our way to the event. This has been 8 years in the making and the reward was very sweet! I would definitely like to say we support the option of buying in to the tournament because up here in Canada we have two powerhouse teams that deservedly dominate the award categories at our two regionals that earn your right to attend. (We were looking forward to a showdown between them in the Einstein finals, but it wasn't meant to be!) I'm not saying they can't be defeated but it's easier said than done and the option to buy in allowed us to reward our first group of students that started way back in grade 9 and will be moving on to greater things next year. Without the option we would have never been able to share this wonderful experience with everyone. As first time attendee we were awestruck by the size and quality of the tournament. We had heard it was big, but words can not describe... People were very friendly and supportive, and we were impressed by the efficiency of the organizers. Everything ran like clockwork and we had a blast. Two things that definitely came up as a criticism. One was the length of the Kamen speech during the finals. (I heard in retrospect that this is not uncommon.) I casually observed many members of my team and the teams around me get more and more disconnected as their attention wavered. I do believe some of the message was lost in the delivery, which is a shame because it was a positive one. Second, and I only offer this up because it was discussed amongst my students, we did not feel the language used was as inclusive as it could have been for the international attendees. From the launch to the closing ceremonies, we found the message of many of the FIRST speakers to be very United States centric. Obviously the VAST majority of teams hail from the USA, but it's my belief, and those of my students, that FIRST could be a little better at acknowledging that this is a global program with many countries involved. There were teams that flew for as long as we drove to attend this tournament and that should be recognized. These may be minor points, and apparently some have been discussed at length before, but I felt I should post the positives and the concerns that were raised by the team on the bus ride home. Congratulations to everyone who participated. You made a lasting impression on our team. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Hey,
you must be the guy that sat next to me in the stands. You brought up some good points that afternoon. Quote:
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Funny story: Dean arrived in the VIP area in the middle of the day, and needed to be at an interview. He attempted to walk past the VIP check-in and past the GA Dome staff member who was guarding the VIP area. The man stopped Dean and said "I'm sorry, sir, but you can't come through here, you don't have a badge." Dean's picture was up on a poster directly next to the guard's head. The FIRST staff pointed to it and told the guard, "No, you can let him through, it's OK.". The man shook his head and calmly said "No ma'am, I can't. He doesn't have a badge, and I'm not allowed to let anyone without a badge through. I'm just doing my job." Dean went over to the table, got his badge, and was let through for his interview- but not without shaking the staff member's hand and thanking him for doing his job. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Does anybody think that, in their determination to keep the riffraff out of the VIP areas, FIRST intended that people in wheelchairs should have to grovel for permission to use an elevator? I don't. I think FIRST assumed that common sense and decency would prevail amongst the event staff - which it obviously didn't. If my elderly mother-in-law is able to join us in St. Louis next year, I hope she will not be told she needs to climb 2 flights of stairs simply because she is not a VIP. The "I was just doin' my job" thing doesn't really settle well with me on this. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Second, and I only offer this up because it was discussed amongst my students, we did not feel the language used was as inclusive as it could have been for the international attendees. From the launch to the closing ceremonies, we found the message of many of the FIRST speakers to be very United States centric.
The challenges facing the world are pretty much the same no matter what country you are from. Poverty. Disease. Clean water. Violence. Most of the messages Dean supplied in his speech could be applied to any country - from Brazil to the US to Australia to England. When I looked above the podium and saw the dozens of flags hanging there I considered just how much reach FIRST has. Did you notice the different accents of the diffent speakers? I did and wondered if it had been done on purpose. I certainly hope it was, because it's another reminder just how small the world is and how big FIRST can be. I don't think they need to modify their words. I thought the message was spot on. I think they sent an excellent message when a team like the Panteras won a major award. Don't focus on the fact that he used the US as an example. He lives here. In fact, most all of FIRST lives here. That doesn't make the message any less applicable. If you want to feel included, just look at the flags above the stage and realize just how inclusive this whole thing called FIRST really is. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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I know I would not want to compete in FIRST and put in all that sweat, energy, time, and money if that's the kind of connotation being portrayed to the students. Let me also point out that if that is the case being made, subjection based on ID, then are you saying that it okay that a captain or a human player or a driver goes out and makes adjustments after they place it on the field? Why is the politic here being limited to media badges? Should FIRST just disallow anyone touching the robot at all, except placement on the field and to turn it on, if this is the point being made? Now that being said, this was the first time our team went to the nationals and I was very pleased overall in terms of how well the logistics were prepared and executed. I know I had a blast in the grand scheme of things. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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If we openly allow people holding these passes to work on the robots, then we will be getting a lot less pictures out of these events as every competitive team will be replacing their media person with a pit crew member. Members of the drive team have drive team badges which are distinct from the Media badges. Drive team members have always been allowed to work on the robot. It's not that people don't want everyone to have a working robot, it's that they want to avoid an arms race of "how many pit crew members can we get on the field using various badges and credentials". Drive team and badged Pit Crew members work on the robot on the field, period. Keeps things simple and under control. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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They have to stand there for hours handling hundreds of people all day long. If you have a problem with the standing orders they were given take it up with the management instead of putting some poor wage slave on the spot and jeopardizing their employment. That's why mangers are in those positions so they can make those decisions instead of the employees who are only supposed to enforce the rules. |
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Nor did I indicate I might find it satisfying if someone had been fired. FIRST did not (I hope) expect the event staff to be so rigidly inconsiderate. My only point here is that, next year, they need to anticipate exactly that. Which is sad. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Having attended a FIRST championship for the first time, I thought the competition was wonderful. It was obviously much bigger than the regionals and it was nice seeing what some of the best teams did.
I thought the venue was quite nice, especially with the pit area being so big. It was nice not sitting being in one place for the entire time. It was nice to be able to talk to so many people, as well. Especially those who participate in FIRST in the different areas of the world. Everyone was so polite. :) I did find it interesting that there was a lot less cheering than at regionals I've been to, though. Maybe it's just my imagination. o.o |
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FIRST spirit involves playing fair. Quote:
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If a team could use a media badge anyway they wish, there would be no media. FIRST has a team media badge so that teams can have a photographer or videographer down on the field to document the team. Good photos can be especially helpful in promotional materials for teams looking to get new sponsors, or keep old ones. I've heard stories direct from mentors about how good pictures have helped get funding. I would hate to see a team miss out on a chance to get pictures of the team in action at the Championship because other team members decided that the media badge is best used by someone who can help fix the robot if needed. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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As far as this goes you have to keep rotating things in the back of your mind b/c what you say here is kind of loaded in a way. Scheduling: FIRST handles what they want ---> FMS manages match scheduling ---> Show Ready manages the event as a whole and attempts to keep the whole event on time by constantly adjusting FIRST's expectations as needed. So no matter which field finishes first you still need to wait for the rest before you can move onto the next phase of the event. FIRST would rather hear the fields are running on time safely then ahead / behind schedule which would cause a concern for safety all b/c a field thinks by finishing first they will go to Einstein. Carelessness and sacrificing a teams competing experience is not acceptable. Field Races: I feel thats untrue. Division Volunteers are encouraged to work at a set pace according to FIRST's expectations on how quickly a field can be reset but not rush or bend the rules / policies to get the job done quicker. Think of it as 4 Regionals going on at once. Each field has their own FTA, Supv and Queuing Personnel etc... So each field operates independently of one another like a Regional Event and of course will naturally operate differently then one another. At the end of the last match or just before pairings The Supv's of their Fields gathers their respective crews and selects "X" amount of volunteers for the Einstein Crew (at least thats how they did it in '05 and '07). Those chosen were the ones who can reliably repair minor defects in the field w/o causing a distraction and those who can effectively and safely help move teams on and off the field. Field reset only takes 2 minutes at max. The rest of the time is used for Robot Linkup and last minute debugging if required. So this years reset expectations are a little faster in of itself and not the doing of the volunteers & how quickly they worked - It's just how the game was desgined. Volunteer as a Field Repair / Reset Crew member and you'll see what I mean. If I'm not mistaken the turnaround time between matches should've been 6 minutes + match run time. Thats pretty comfy. In the past it used to be a little more reset time due to the complexities of the game (more objects to be scored + different methods for scoring which = more items that have the ability to break). There's only 12 balls on the field this year - we just clear them out of your way so you don't trip and you place them before you leave your robot. So this years reset expectations were simple and quick from the get go. Next year the fields might not run as fast due to change in game and deisgn of key game features. So you have to take all of that in account. Thats probably (and I use that word loosely b/c no one person can really find out why FIRST does what they do) why FIRST ran this reocrd amount of matches this year - the game was simple enough to reset and they figured they could add 1/2 a day to the Qual. Schedule b/c of this years game features and # of teams competing - next year you might be back to Fri and Sat only competing and have a slower match cycle time. I've done Field Repair / Reset / Setup / Break Down / Queuing on all levels and FTAA - All jobs which revolve around a set schedule that FIRST outlines. At times you feel rushed but that could be because your behind 45 minutes and looking for innovative ways to regain some of that time lost for whatever reason. Sometimes it's unrecoverable but when ever I was told to help in the speeding up process we were never told to bend or break pre-set policies. We were always told to do the best we can to be on point when the buzzer sounds. As a team member you get to have fun playing at the event and experience everything - As a volunteer part of your particular job crew you get to experience how to work as one so that the team members can have a good time in experiencing everything. Nothing more nothing less =) Hope your '10 off-season is awesome. ^_^ |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Last year following the Championship I made this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...697#post856697
This year when my team didn't make eliminations I decided to do a bit of first hand research to see how easy it was to walk out into the dome during eliminations, and I found out it's really really easy. I found that all it takes is a Drive team badge (Doesn't have to be a team in the Eliminations) or a media pass. One of those two things will get you almost anywhere on the dome floor. I don't know if there's an easy solution to this problem though. The only way I could see limiting access to the dome floor would be to give a list of all teams involved in the eliminations to the volunteers, and request that they get rid of anyone not involved. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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I think it would be great if there were screens posted out on the backdrop of each field of each of the other fields. Although, in some ways, this would be pointless and distracting, in others, it'd also be beneficial.
We do not get to see what is happening on the other fields due to scouting, but between matches, it'd be great to catch a glimpse of what is happening out there. And if it became a factor of it being distracting, it could be played only between matches, like the "commercials" they played this year, or in times of "field faults" where there is a little more down time. Another GREAT time to see other matches (actually, where one of our mentors and I noticed the need for it) was during the eliminations--even if just scores were posted. We had a few scouters on each field, who couldn't even see how our own robot was doing, and we wanted to catch some of the action elsewhere as well. Just a thought. maybe this causes more problems than it's worth, but I figured I'd toss it out there. :D On a side note: THANKS FIRST! and everyone involved! This was my first and last year on my team. (Darn, joining as a senior. As soon as you fall in love with it, it goes away) It was an amazing experience and I wouldn't trade it for anything! I cannot believe there are so many people who have no idea what this organization is about, much like myself prior to this year, and I am going to be sure to continue spreading this new FIRST addiction of mine. :) |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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I'm just not getting the apparent notion that being in danger of losing one's job justifies being insensitive to the needs of people with disabilities. And I'll say this... if some elderly person had fallen down the stairs, or died of a heart attack while climbing the stairs, because Joe-I'm-Just-Doing-My-Job wouldn't let that person on the elevator, Joe would have found himself between jobs anyway -- as a scapegoat. Again... I never suggested that anyone should do anything that would cause a firing or that I would derive pleasure from anyone getting fired. And I never dismissed the possibility that insubordination could result in a firing. None of that means I have to be complacent about the idiocy of it all. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
I have thought about the issue of "buying your way into the championship"
I think that the attitude of many individuals about this is a little skewed. First of all. EVERYONE buys there way into the championship. I know of quite a few teams that qualified at Regionals and didn't have the money to go... This is certainly true the further you get from Georgia...(or Missouri next year...) The registration fee is just the initial roadblock... after that $5000, you have to pay for lodging... (not cheap) and you have to get there... (for a team from Seattle... that would an additional $400 minimum per student in airfare...) Nothing in life is fair.... there is really no fair way to pick the best 360 teams... the way we do it now brings in 3 teams from each regional as "winners" but please don't tell me that they are the BEST three teams at the regional.... they are the representatives for that regionals... as simple as that... and they were the winners... But to think that they represent the best three teams is not necessarily true. They were the best alliances.... perhaps they should be competing as alliances at the CMP too? How do we compare a winning alliance from a 30 team regional to one from a 60 team regional? How do we compare teams winning a "weak" regional from those winning a "strong" regional (Whatever that means anyway...) We qualify the Rookie All-Star, the Engineering Inspiration, and the Chairman's Award winner also... completely with no consideration given to how well they played on the field... For everyone to think that CMP is about bringing the best 360 teams together is not reality. We bring together the best of FIRST.... the qualifiers... the teams from the previous year... HOF teams...etc... Why should we just have the best teams? Part of the learning we accomplish is figuring out how to deal with adversity.... on the field and off.... we work together.... we adapt... we overcome... That is the essence of CMP.. I don't think anyone would argue that what we saw on Einstein wasn't a great example of FIRST engineering and team abilities.... I was proud of all the teams that managed to get there... Were they the best teams? That's an argument I won't participate in.... They definitely were the WINNERS and deserved to win... We all play within the rules to build a robot. We have rules that determine how we make alliances and how we play... we play within them too... This is just like life.... we all strive to play with what we are given.... we do our best and someone comes out on top.... Congrats to the Winners!!! I do think that this year was a difficult one for the building of robots... in my 7 years at CMP I have never seen quite this many teams struggle so much with having a competitive robot at CMP.... Is that bad? I don't think so... we all learned a great deal.... we competed like crazy... and we were all inspired to do even more.... Our team has paid our way into the championships for 3 years straight.... We do it because we HAVE to get our arrangements done early... just so we can have a target for our fundraising. In those same three years we have managed to have 2 regional wins, an engineering inspiration award, and a chairman's award.... so we have ALSO qualified to attend every year... (Our first year we won a regional and were Rookie All-Star and also attended CMP in that year (2007). Next year we will again try to sign up for CMP.... We hope to also qualify but we will still try to attend. It is our goal every year... we learn so much from CMP that we can't possibly learn at our local regionals. It would be a real shame to limit CMP to only teams that "WIN" regionals.... Many really GOOD robots and teams don't win qualifying awards every year.... it would certainly be a shame to not see a team because in that particular year they didn't win one of these awards. We all know that winning a regional has quite a bit of luck in it....it is not a perfect system by any means. But in the end.... that is not what FIRST is about.... FIRST is about inspiring students to pursue careers in science, engineering and technology.... What is MORE inspiring than coming to CMP and competing.... In the end there are +/- 360 winners at CMP... and 1800+ winners in all of FIRST.... Now on to 2011!! We will be better.... and I am sure you will too!! See you all on the field in 2011!! |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Needless to say, we all really wanted to go, so we tried really hard to keep matches moving fast and have a good turnaround time. I know for a fact that the Newton field finished about 2 matches before all the other fields on Thursday, about 1 match ahead Friday morning, about 1-2 ahead Friday Night, and about the same Saturday morning. And I know that we averaged only maybe 3 minutes ahead of schedule. We discovered Saturday morning that we had not been selected to go to Einstein. None of us could figure out why, because we had always finished early, we had an awesome turnaround time, and the only reason I believe we were ahead of the other fields was mostly because they were having some field issues. Our crew was extremely frustrated and bitter about this. Not to say whoever got selected didn't deserve it, but why the heck were we pushing so fast if that didn't matter anyway? Our crew did honestly believe it was a race, plus we wanted to have the best turnaround time. However, we never did anything to make it unsafe for the teams. Believe me, I know how important safety is, and if I saw that we were making teams unsafe, I would have said something to our Lead Queuer or someone else. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Much has been posted about the seating situation and I wanted to give you my perspective. 2010 was my son's team's first appearance at Championships. We had a wonderful time, and were very inspired by all the wonderful people we met. However, I was disappointed and frustrated with the teams that saved large blocks of seats. On our field, there were many large teams that saved 4-5 ROWS of seats, (18 seats per row) while they only had about 20 kids actually in the seats. My son's team is rather small and we did not need many seats, but it was still nearly impossible to get seats. I did ask for a few seats from some of these large teams, once I was successful but the rest of the time I was told 'No, we need ALL our seats." We actually asked for ONE seat from a team during finals on our field, and were told no even when many of their seats were open and remained open until the end of finals. ONE POSSIBLE SUGGESTION would be to have the prime seats in each section designated as "must be occupied or else you lose them" seats. Sections further away can be used for the large teams to "camp out," and if that large team has a match they can head to the "must be occupied section" and try their luck there.
Also, I don't think most of the students realize that when they stand up, they are blocking the view for a HUGE area. We were sitting off to the side of our field, and were up pretty high. A large team was down front and many of the kids in the front row were standing. This completely blocked our view, even though we were so far away. I put up with if for a while, but as our match was approaching I headed down there and pointed to my group (wary in back) and let them know they were blocking our view. This was met with some temporary success. Please don't think that I'm not interested just because I'm not scouting or because my son's team is not on the floor. I AM interested and want to see the match! At band competitions they restrict access to the stands while a band is performing...and this would be great to do at FIRST events. I always waited until the match was over before heading down into the stands or before leaving my seat. Since the matches are so short, it is hardly an inconvenience. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
I love Championships! There is something so amazing about seeing all the teams from all over the world for each program all in the same place!
Only one comment that I haven't seen expressed: Thursday Matches in Atlanta: As much as we all liked having extra qualification matches, I did not like what it did to the "intensity" of Thursday. I did not like that it was announced too late after many teams had made travel plans and the FIRST Conference planners had already sent out their schedules. Too short of time to practice and make final repairs on the robots, too short of time for inspections, team members trying to get pits organized while competing, pit scouting, match scouting, giving conference presentations and trying to attend the conferences. Our team also organizes the All Rookie Meet and Greet and we had invitations to deliver on Thursday. And students that just wanted a chance to look around! Even with a detailed team schedule, our team members all ended up trying to do several things at once which was very stressful! |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
In contrast, I have to say I loved the Thursday matches beginning after lunch. At that point in the season we didn't have to change much, but if allotted the time our mechanical team would have started "improving" things, instead of remaining focused as a pit crew.
Thursday was previously a long day (unless your robot was terribly broken or had to be built from scratch). So this is probably a good thing if you're ready, and a bad thing if you don't have it all together - Ying & Yang. From a team perspective I liked the Wednesday inspection, because it took the pressure off and we couldn't delay because we had "something to add." Although we got lucky and happened to have a mentor driving down with another team who could uncrate and take the robot for size & weight inspection. I appreciated the stream-lined inspection process. Still, I liked the students working with the inspector in our pit on Thursday morning. Pre-planning would be appreciated, so teams can organize their activities ahead of time. I'm sure the last minute notice did throw some teams for a loop, as they had to scramble to reassemble parts they'd removed from their robots after Regional competitions. We won't be able to plan travel to arrive early on Wednesday, because we want to keep the students in school as long as possible and won't leave until after school. The down-side of the way matches began on Thursday were that they were somewhat anti-climactic with no defining Let the Games Begin Practice matches just sort of rolled right into matches that counted. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
I'm not sure if I'm re-posting anything here, but the other fields were great in the way the teams moved on and off the field.... except for Galileo. The stage was pushed RIGHT up against the Galileo field, only leaving ONE side for 6+ teams to move to and from the field. It was extremely congested and slightly annoying having to wait to get your bot on the field, or have to rush out of the way on the side of the field, unable to see your match's final score, because there was no room.
And I also miss the matches played inside the pits. Not only is it nice for the pit crew to watch the matches we're in, but watch the matches of their favorite teams. |
Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
Galileo field: We had an unusual situation to have the stage right up against the field, and eliminating use of the right side for queuing and traffic. We were very disappointed to see this, and had a lot to do with why we were pushing the teams so fast to keep traffic moving. Having just one enter and exit for a field changes the dynamics of everything, how fast teams change over, how strict 'media behind the line' policy is, how much you 'push' teams to keep things moving. All in all, we tried to keep ourselves going fast enough while still being gracious, and I'm sorry at point if we were ungracious. It is frustrating that when your on the third morning and teams still don't understand we want their robot to be on at the last 20 seconds of the previous match. Having a faster turn around time(without getting ahead of schedule) allows more time for teams to be on the field to setup and point their robots, something that surprisingly takes a while for most teams. It also allows more time for FTAs to work on any problems with the FMS and robots if there are any, thus helping to prevent us from going behind schedule.
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Re: Championship 2010 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please?
It was my first Atlanta Championship that I went too and it went fairly well, however, the traffic getting back to our hotel used to be 10 mins but ended up taking a hour or so to get back.
I liked the way it was organized, it was way much better than the Regional in North Carolina. I did not like the way the prices were for the drinks especially if you cant get refills or anything like that. The food was okay but I expected that from the football experiances. The seats were terrible, my team had to get in at a specific time everyday just to get good seats and spread out all of our stuff but we ended up getting mixed in with other teams. We always had to keep someone in the pits at all time as well, I not alot of judges were walking around in the pits and I wish we had a schedule so that we can keep things moving and watch the matches. (I missed a couple of matches trying to tidy up our pit and near the end when our team was in the semi finals a couple of my team members and myself had to take it apart, so we missed watching a couple of matches!!) |
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