Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Now that we have seen the official FRC competition season come to a close, I wanted to create this well-deserved thread...

Whether this was your first FRC game or your 18th, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who didn't enjoy Breakaway.

Breakaway was a HARD game - possessing soccer balls without carrying them, reliably traversing the bumps, kicking balls accurately over varying distances, and hanging a fully loaded robot above the ground are each very difficult technical tasks that in most years would be *the* game challenge. This year, we had all of them! Our team, and most others, were tested in ways unparalleled by other recent games.

Yet despite the complexity of the robot design, Breakaway was ingeniously simple. Three ways to score, each completely unambiguous. A zone system that required teams to constantly trade off the need to control the ball returns with the need to score offensive balls, and once the playoffs hit, the need to defend your opponents' goals. All great sports are simple at their core, and yet fantastically nuanced so that no single strategy is always effective (as the finals on Einstein showed).

Although the game had its inevitable bumps - DOGMA, balancing winning with coopertition, balls that somehow always found their way into/under/on top of even the most cleverly designed robots - in my opinion, the GDC did an amazing job in creating a game that turned the past four months into "the hardest fun we'll ever have".

FIRST Community: Please do NOT use this thread as an opportunity to rip apart every little aspect of the game that you thought could have been better. There will be ample opportunity to do that before next January. The GDC is made up of humans - albeit very, very smart humans who have already demonstrated that they can see what works and what doesn't. But as humans, they also deserve to hear our praise when they have earned it.

Thank you!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I have to say this year's game was awesome. Einstein finals certainly proved how exciting this game really was. Props to the GDC, and I wish them the best of luck for next year's water game. :p

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I agree. I think Dean got his wish, an exciting game to watch. I was on the edge at the beginning of the season, but after watching a pre-season scrimmage and the first regional I was convinced this was a great game. Hands down the best game since Aim High!

Can't wait for next year's game presentation. Way to go GDC, keep up the good work.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I concur, I have to spend some time thinking but Breakaway is going to go pretty high on my list as far as FRC games. The GDC may have had some issues initially (ranking system and penalties) but they fixed them as soon as they realized them. Thank you GDC for practicing continuous improvement.

Thank you GDC for another wonderful tool to inspire students.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I'll agree that there were some minor issues with the game, but Breakaway was very spectator friendly and a fun game to watch and scout. I too was very skeptical at first, but it became very fun and can't wait for off-season.

Thank you GDC! :)

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Terrific game this year, GDC!

The game was fun for teams to play and exciting for spectators to watch. Many matches were decided in the Finale by hanging robots. The game offered many strategies for teams to pursue. Although it might seem many robots looked alike, there were many designs implemented for drive, ball handling/kicking and hanging.

Congrats to the GDC for a great job!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I personally spoke with Dave right before eliminations and outside after the event, personally thanking him for another great game challenge.
This was easily our toughest build season ever as we had to look at every aspect of meeting the challenge over and over again since many initial iterations of our bot failed.
My only suggestion is that game hints come out earlier and more descriptive such as actually showing the bump. It gives a chance to both teams and vendors to prototype and make things available early on with less stress on personal lives (families) where I think in the case of the bump, would not have hurt the game with teams finding out about it early on.

Glenn

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

You know, some will say that this was a very hard and complicated game with complicated robots. Yet I took a picture of a very popular Einstein robot's twin this weekend that not only did everything in the game very well, it also fit under 17" and had a very large gaping void in the middle of it. I took a picture through the robot.

The thing that I loved about this year's game was that it was still very challenging, yet we weren't forced to build something very complex to be very competitive.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I really think Breakaway was a perfect game.

It was a hard design challenge for everyone. The game objectives featured a very hard "required" element (ball control) that stumped even the most experienced veterans. On top of that, you had several choices, tradeoffs, and general conflicting goals in the game that made robot variety begin to kind of approach 2004 levels. 45 degree bumps, tunnels, hanging from a tower every which way... none of these were intuitive challenges to solve at all. It wasn't an "arm game" nor a game where many pre-built mechanisms could just be plopped onto a new robot. Kickoff made me feel scared, worried, and as Woodie always put it, "made my brain hurt".

I think the "easy enough for rookies, hard enough for veterans" sweet spot was found with this game. This is a game where every robot could score, and I would not be surprised if every robot did. Yet mastering the ability to score through defense, kick over bumps, traverse the bumps, and hang was not trivial for anyone; especially the former since it required possession. This year, defense was not a consolation prize for teams that did not do well on offense; it was something even storied veterans did. Good drivers could win with average robots, great robots fell to average drivers.

The actual game at a high level was also strategically very interesting, even before factoring in teams like 469. Autonomous placement, management of resources, and end game roles were more important than ever with the division of the field into zones. Where you put the alliance partner that couldn't go over the bump, what autonomous routine to run, the tradeoffs of trying to starve a zone, and the places to apply defense were all very interesting. This was a game I could describe to stat junkies, sports nuts, and competitive game players alike and they would all be intrigued with the options teams had.

I'll make a separate thread about the seeding system as my opinion in there is very different than most, and I don't want to derail this thread.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

As a driver, this was by far my favorite game in 4 years to play

As a watcher, this year had thrills throughout the entire match: Auto scoring, mid-game match-ups, and end game scoring

I am extremely pleased to have ended my 4 year career, as a student,on Breakaway :D

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

In Kansas City, Week 1, Bill Miller said that this game was Woodie's idea from a few years ago and they have been tweaking it and figuring out the nuances for a few years.

As the robots on Einstein elevated at the end of the game, I elevated out of my seat. If the GDC was hoping for the thrill of a sporting event, they nailed it with this game.

Thank you.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Elimination Round Breakaway was one of the best and most exciting FRC games to watch in my 10 years of competing.

This was one of the most balanced games to come along in a while.

Great job, GDC. Best of luck topping this fine effort next season.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Jared, I hope my post is not a bash. If it is, please tell me and I'll remove it. This is a thought I have had ever since Kick Off and a lot of it is based on some threads and posts here in CD as well as some initial responses I received from my teammates.

I think that folks were slow to absorb and understand the power and the beauty of the scoring system this year. Many of us seemed caught up in how it should be and didn't take the time to think about how it could be. As we moved through the competitions and people started becoming more open to the possibilities, then the game was able to be played out with everyone celebrating it. I also think that hints and clues continued to reveal themselves although people didn't quite get them or verbalize them - such as soccer being a low scoring game. That doesn't make it a boring game - it makes it soccer. If we want to watch/play a fast paced high scoring game, we watch/play basketball. If we want to watch/play a game with extra innings with the short stop pitching in 2 of those innings, then we watch or play like the Cards and the Mets! err - baseball.

I think that staying flexible, agile, and open in our thinking and approach to new games will be vital in the successes of the coming seasons. Strategy was such an important element of the game and the robot design. It always is but I really saw it shine this season. It was wonderful!

Jane

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Being a rookie driver this year was extremely difficult. Although for me, I LOVED every second of it. The game was so simplistic and easy to score on. Nothing too techinal about the game or the rules. I know our team was dissappointed about soccer balls being used but it wasn't truly that bad after all. Next year is my senior year and my last year driving. I know that I want the game to be amazing. Also, the game has to be challenging for me as well. I know the GDC can blow us or should I say "break" us away next year with the new game. Now for us, it's the off-season! :)

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

As a strategist this was my favorite game from all of the ones I have seen. Never has strategy on a match to match basis and during alliance selections been so important especially at the championship. You had to consider who could play which zone, where people would line up, and where all the balls would be at the end of autonomous mode.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I found it very easy to explain this years game to people who have never seen a first tournament. Thanks GDC! Two thumbs way up!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I really have to echo everything that all of you have said thus far. The FRC GDC did a great job creating a game that everyone was competitive in. Keep up the good work!

I also really have to through some props towards the FTC GDC. They created a game that similar to that of Breakaway in that it was exciting for spectators and just as much fun for teams to build robots for.

Certainly a "best of" year for both committees!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I very much enjoyed the game this year, and would also like to thank the GDC! I think they set the bar high, with several tasks that robots could preform that teams had to decide which one they wanted to do in the very beginning of the design process! (I'm referring to moving, which should always be a/the top goal of a robot, and the decision to move over bumps or though tunnels or none at all) The game was relatable for spectators, fast paced, with so many robots moving between zones and scoring, the low scoring kept things close and kept everyone on the edge of their seats until the very end, and once we got to the very end, robots pulled themselves up into the air, what a great crowd pleaser!

On the other aspect I deal with, it also made a challenge for scouting. Sure, we still needed to figure out who scored the most and maybe who moved the most, but you needed people that could work well and compliment your robot, unlike in Lunacy where you just got the two highest scorers. No longer was alliance selection so easy for the unprepared teams, and the prepared ones collected their reward for their hard work though both quantitative and qualitative data, both of which I feel was needed more for this game then last year.

Not to be "that guy", but I just want to mention the camera situation. One thing I remember Dean saying at Kickoff is, "We think we have it this time." and that cameras would be used more in the games to track the giant vision targets and score balls. Now, from my viewing, I didn't see a single team use a camera to track and score balls. I know back at our shop, we had a test robot that we planned on having an autonomous program that would use the vision target to score balls, but we had issues with the lighting providing a false target. We got rid of the idea completely after we came to the conclusion that with teams flying over bumps, we'd get way too shaky of an image to be able to do anything with (which I find funny, because we didn't even end up going over the bumps). Just something to look at for next year's game, if they want to keep pushing the cameras, something I personally feel is very beneficial.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

This game gets a big thumbs up from me. I am always critical of the games on these forums, mostly because I bring a LOT of non-FIRSTers to watch events and I always ask them what they think of the game. This year's game was the best feeback I've received in many years.

Of everything in the game, I have one minor criticism - but I'll save that for another thread.

I really want to give a big thank you to the GDC. I think Breakaway is a TV-ready game, which is exactly what FIRST needs. Bravo.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I think Breakaway was a great game, especially to introduce new people into FIRST. I brought someone with me who wanted to join a robotics team next year to the Troy competition to show him what it was like, and after a brief description of the game to him, he picked up practically everything else without much help. The understanding of the competition actually increased his interest in joining FIRST, and I was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to stay to see the final matches. Good job GDC! :)
Breakaway was also an exceptionally great spectator game, and I kept finding myself staying in the stands just to watch the matches that didn't even have well-renowned robots in it. In my opinion, 2008 and 2009's games were pretty boring to watch in comparison to this year's game.
I look forward to when the next year's game is announced!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Quoted for Emphasis.

In retrospect I like Breakaway because it forced many teams to venture into uncharted territory. The bumps were like nothing in recent memory, and kicker designs forced many teams to put some serious thought in and "Do the Math."

I hope next years game is just as awesome.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Ditto to everything said...

I didnt' believe it when i was at scrimmage...in fact i was scared...

But regionals, and espcially championship proved it...

GREAT GAME... Way to go GDC..!!!!!!!!!

This game is definitely up there with 2000, and 2006 in my mind.

Bravo!! Take a bow.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Best FIRST game since 2006.
Third best game I've seen (would have probably been second if it wasn't for the seeding system).

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

In my opinion this is the best game we have had since Aim High, FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar will be hard to knock off my top spot. Once the 6 vs 0 issues got cleaned up with the 5 point bonus for a win I think the game generally played very well with high level robots/teams on the field. It was easy to follow and explain compared to previous games, as long as 6 vs 0 and scoring on yourself didn't come into play.

It was visually impressive and had many challengers to conquer that were not mutually exclusive but made things tougher. Hanging is always visually impressive and the bumps were a great challenge to see how teams would traverse them and use them in their strategy. The only thing that I think was too hard for many teams was ball control.

The fact that many of the robots looked very similar/identical this year detracts from things a little, but is not a deal breaker. The penalties also hurt the game a little, because there were so many, but again at a high level of play they were rarely an issue.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Echoing many before me, I thought this was a great game. As a Junior, I've only seen Overdrive, Lunacy and Breakaway, but out of these three, Breakaway was definitely the best game. My favorite part of this game was the fact that the way it was best played, the alliance depended on all three robots. A successful alliance had to have a good defender, midfielder and striker. Yet in qualifications, a great robot could still stand out over the rest of it's alliance.

As has been said many times, Breakaway was a great spectator game. The GDC has definitely outdone themselves this year. I can only hope that they can repeat this next year!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Echoing many others: Really good game this year. Sure, there were some quibbles here and there, but overall a challenging and exciting game.

As for easy to explain: I was standing right behind Dave Lavery as he explained the game to Gen. Bolden (the administrator of NASA) on Curie field during eliminations. It took Dave only about 6 sentences to explain it, and he did a pretty good job. :p

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

You did good. And once we decided to read the rules for what they said rather than trying to get inside the GDC's head (dark scary place that!) we did very well.

GDC isn't going to make Discovery Channels "Dirty Jobs", it's one that I don't want but are very impressed with the people that do have it.

Looking forward to the water game in 2011 for our new Championship Home on the Mississippi!

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

They should do that just to catch us while our guard is down. Also, It would help them raise the bar even further than they did this year.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

"...figuring out the nuances for a few years."

Makes me think of something I read about James Cameron and the movie, Avatar - that he had the idea for a long time but had to wait for the technology to develop to the point that he could make the movie he wanted to make.

I wonder what else Dr. Flowers and members of the GDC have been tweaking and figuring out nuances for - for a few years. Worth the wait, I'll just bet.

Thank you for the insight, Collin.

Jane

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I simply cannot see how the GDC could top this game next year. But then again, I couldn't see 1114 and 469 losing together on Einstein. This season has left me wanting more and I hope I'm as naive as I think I am when I say I can't fathom the GDC making a better game.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

I thought Breakaway was a great game. The sports aspect of it really made it understandable and relateable.

The one thing I didn't like about the tunnel was that it made robots small (including ours) and made a lot of robots look the same. I like seeing the visual aspect of different robots and this year lacked a lot of that. The one positive about that is the bumper color rule combined with the small bots made them look blue and red and easier to identify with an alliance.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

My favorite aspect of Breakaway was that each round was very different from the next because of the zone-control tradeoffs made depending on who you were playing against.

Overdrive was a VERY exciting game. However, it was less about strategy and more pure scoring ability (not to discount the great defense played by many teams), which made the rounds more the "same."

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Something I wanted to add, which I'm sure is a debatable point but:

I loved that breakaway used a size 5 soccer ball. It would've been nice to have used some sort of common brand (Not DSI but instead Nike or someone like that), but the fact that FIRST chose a relatively easy to acquire game piece was great. I hope the GDC stays with easy to acquire game pieces, because well Orbit Balls, Trackballs and Tubes weren't exactly the easiest things to get from a local store... :P

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

This was a great game, no doubt. I personally don't rank it high on my list of favorite games, but as a FIRST game for FIRST it's pretty much the best since Aim High but not as good as Aim High.

I think I have a personal appeal to a more visually complex objective, rather then the small detailed and unseen problems.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

On stage, breakaway is a great game. Score balls into goals!!! I felt like it had more going on behind the curtains than people thought.

Last year's game was easy to explain except for the Empty Cell/Super Cell Exchange/SuperCell Rules.

I don't feel like any of the game are hard to explain, it's just this year's game was more obvious than usual.

Re: Thank you GDC for an incredible game!
 

Norman, you took the words right out of my mouth! As a junior I can sympathize with the same argument. Also, I have not seen a single statement in this thread in which I did not think myself at one point or another during the last few months. Initially this game was criticized for it's challenging bumps, but by the end I believe they really did add the twist needed to diversify strategies and make cooperation between an alliance necessary. For all of this, I appreciate your hard work.

Thank you!
Petrie