Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

No offense intended, so I won't quote folks above, but ...

Looks like some are focused solely on extrinsic motivators and not looking at the intrinsic. It's pretty easy to look at this as "what FIRST wants" and "they need to provide more feedback to get people to do this" but, if that's where the conversation ends it all seems kind of cheesy to me.

I firmly believe that FIRST "wants" us to do this because it's important to work at positive culture change. Why aren't more teams looking "inside themselves" in this pursuit? I mean, I'll flat out tell you, I personally feel no different in these efforts with 1712 than I did when I was a Hall of Fame member with 103 performing outreach and working hard at the same thing. Yes, the recognition is very nice and other people view it as a credibility thing on occasion, but when I go to bed at night, how I feel about myself and the efforts 1712 has made without the award itself feels EXACTLY the same way it did when I was at Palisades.

Lower Merion is a very different community and we've developed a very different approach to outreach, etc but at the end of the day the positive change is palpable and the satisfaction of a positively changed community is where it's at.

I'm frightened by the thought that someone wants to reduce all of this to a point system somewhere, in fact, it really makes me feel sick. I like the fact that its somewhat open ended and I don't want any judge checking boxes in this case instead of talking, reading, learning, understanding.

As for students being "wired" differently and the implication that they can't/won't/shouldn't be altruistic ... I just don't buy it at all. I just spent a weekend in Dallas with some incredible 20-somethings (along with many older folks as well) who were all there on their own dime, giving back to an effort they first learned as FRC team members. I also see it every day in the students we work with and I see it in their actions and decisions they make on their own long after they leave us. Is it hard? You bet. Is it frustrating? You bet. Does it run completely counter to what modern American selfish culture teaches them? Oh yes.

Kinda like the unfairly difficult nature of the robot thingy part of what we do, maybe we need to do this because the most meaningful efforts we can make in life are the most misunderstood, unrecognized, and thankless - but oh so incredibly necessary.

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Agreed, Kres. Some things don't need to be nailed down, pigeon-holed, or boxed in. The Chairman's is one of those.

Working with students and mentors who are extremely analytical by nature has been an interesting challenge for me over the years. They've helped me grow in that area and I hope that I've helped or contributed to the areas of the team where outreach is important, sharing knowledge and expertise is important, and helping the communities around us understand who we are and what we do/stand for is important. To assign numbers and check boxes to that and force the team into constantly grading itself, would just make these personalities more analytical and data driven. The Chairman's Award and the Woodie Flowers Award and now the Dean's List Award - need more freedom to develop than that. This opinion may not be in the comfort zone of those who sigh with pleasure when surrounded by numbers, data, and whirring machines, true - but there is great wisdom in having the robotics competition and awards recognizing that aspect of FRC. There is also great wisdom in recognizing the accomplishments and growth of the FRC teams in areas of impact, development, and celebration. You have to look no further than MOE to understand this.

Jane

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Agreed again, 2nd the motion.

Every team has to have an intrinsic motivator. Every team has to determine their mission and how to best operate in their 'space'. That team has to determine their mission, and explain to the judges how their results align and complement the FIRST vision and mission.

The day that Chairman's judges starts box checking and point scoring is the day that innovation and entrepreneurship in pushing the mission of FIRST ends!

IMHO

Ed

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

To just nod and agree with Mr. Kressly here would not be who I am. I most definitely agree with Kressly in that, not to point and fingers or name any names, people are TRYING to win the Chairman’s Award. Winning the Chairman’s Award is not about trying and not about looking at what FIRST "wants". Yes in some ways it is when it boils down to it, but in the end what gets you there is who you are and who your team is. What your team does, community service and the presentation you give specifically, have to fit you and have to be who you are.

This topic came up multiple times in the Chairman’s Chat in Atlanta this year. As a Hall of Fame member, I/we offered this advice. If your team is a really rowdy cheer from the time you wake up at 5 am until you go to bed at 3 am, then that’s the presentation you should give. If your team is the team that is quite and very business professional, or something along those lines, that’s the presentation you should give. As well as defining you, and your team, what your team does in the off season or even during the season should be what you want to do and something you would normally do, NOT something you think you HAVE to do to win the Chairman’s Award.

I will tell all of you this in the Chief Delphi community. For Team 103, our kids and our team does community service because we feel it is right to reach out to our community that way. Every single thing our team does is because the kids and the mentors want to and that’s just who our team is. When it comes down to, “oh well, how many teams did 103 START?” The answer, is none, well only one FLL team. For us, it was more in our hearts and still is to help current FRC teams struggling or in need of a little guidance.

I know this has gone a little off topic of, ‘Is the Bar Set Too High Now,’ but I’m just offering advice. To answer the question of ‘Is the Bar Set Too High Now,’ the bar is only as high as you want to make it. Set your goals and achieve them, and then you have a shot at achieving the big prize. Do not look at what other teams have done and try to do the same. Look at what your team has done and what you plan on achieving. That in itself is pure success, at least in my eyes, and the eyes of all the members of 103.

This has just been my advice and my two cents. The Chairman’s award is what you and your team makes of it. Do not be sad if you do not win, you should look at what your team has done, and ALWAYS be proud of yourselves. If you win the Chairman’s Award, then congratulations, and I sure it is well, well, well deserved because it takes lots of work to get there. Now in my eyes, it was a lot of work, but it is FUN work, work that makes you proud.

If anyone has anyone has any questions about anything please let me know through PM and I would be more than happy to help.

Cass

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Forgive my pointedness...

Misquoting aside (and generally speaking), quality feedback in any organization significantly improves the organization's progress towards its goals. How is presentation of a suggestion for more improved feedback cheesy? It's a simple mechanism to accelerate what FIRST wants, no more. If FIRST hired a consulting firm and asked them "how do we accelerate our message to the broader scope of the world?" then I'm sure feedback to existing efforts would be somewhere in the recommendations.

It's easy to say/imply "my team does XYZ because of our own intrinsic ABC and so should every other team". Great job, the first part of that statement is the point of what we do! Yet that fully implied statement misses the point in the fact that currently the only mechanism FIRST uses to try to motivate teams (CA/EI) is so broad and vague that an FRC team who never visits CD will never understand the scope of their efforts in the broader picture. Thus, encouragement and alignment are simply auxiliary motivators.

Interestingly, half of the outreach we (1885) do is not FIRST-related or even completely student-oriented*. So even though we probably won't win a CA until we start N # of FLL teams and Y # of extra FTC/FRC teams we will continue to do more FIRST and non-FIRST outreach in order to quickly spread FIRST's message to a broader scope of people.

*SeaPerch, Rocketry, Cyber Warfare exercises -- why should people who are older than 18 miss out on the culture change?

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

I take no offense. These are excellent points. I do need some help with questions.

1. How do you motivate your newest members to take on a noble cause? The kids we have worked with for 2-4 years seem to get it (some quicker than others). How should we be motivating the newbies?
2. How do you switch a team driven for the win over to driven for the goal? Especially when you are external to that team. As the number of teams increase, how do we plant the seed of altruism into an ever growing population. While this may not be Team 33's responsibility, it is the responsibility of FIRST as a whole and more specifcally how it applies to FRC.

3. Should someone that truly understands what Chairman's is about even re-submit? I am ok with a reactionary answer to this question, but I would much prefer some in-depth thought as this one has been bugging me since the Michigan State Championship.

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

In FRC, FTC, and FLL, the judges invited to participate have an understanding of the FIRST vision, goals, and mission. In the events that I've been privileged to be a part of, the event planning committee is very careful to invite judges that bring a diverse variety of skills to the competition so that the many aspects of the competition can be covered and judged efficiently and well. We have also been asked to make notes for helpful feedback for the teams.

It may be frustrating to the teams who want specific reasons and suggestions as to where they should improve or where they may be lacking, but I don't think that is the judges' job to figure that out. I'm not sure that is FIRST's job to figure that out. We are a part of a global community where there is so much variety that it would be wrong to limit the possibilities. For example, I think your quote is an assumption. I think that you are assuming that you have to start N # of FLL teams and Y # of extra FTC/FRC teams to garner an award. Perhaps you live in an area where FRC, FTC, and FLL teams are lacking and helping to establish those programs and help mentor new teams would be an invaluable asset to the community. Perhaps you live in an area that is saturated with FRC teams or FTC teams or FLL teams and they are already an invaluable asset to the community so the need to grow isn't the same as an area that is sparse in teams.

Is FIRST supposed to tell you that? Are the judges?

Teams identify their strengths and weaknesses and work those out. They also learn to identify the strengths and weaknesses of their communities and surrounding regions. Dean's, Dave's, and Woodie's speeches help teams with that. Sponsors can help with that, too. A rep from one of our team's sponsors and I were talking at an event this past year and we discussed the lack of diversity in the fields of science, technology, and engineering. We also discussed how that lack is reflected in the enrollment in university majors in these fields. What I know from that discussion is that diversity is very important to all of us and it was reinforced by that interaction. Do we need FIRST to tell us to talk to our sponsors and find out what is important to them or valued? We can spend time in the FIRST website and glean a lot of information and understanding. How many of us do that? People gripe about the speeches and their length at the Championship. Those speeches are often highlighting the impact that we are making and that we should continue to strive to make or increase. They aren't just empty words. These are just a few examples of what FIRST is already doing and providing for teams to think about, pick up on, understand, and get involved in.
--
If we want to put together a list of what would be helpful to teams in understanding the Chairman's Award, let's do that. That is not the same as asking for specifics in how to win the Chairman's Award.

Jane

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

As previously stated. It does not matter how many teams you start. Too many people think that is the key to winning and from experience, let me tell you, we as a team started 0 FRC and FTC teams. We only started 1 FLL team that is no longer in existence. It is about all the other things you do.

Cass

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Well said. Thanks for sharing

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

This is going to be way too long, but here goes anyway!

As Foster quoted me as saying, I very strongly believe that every team should prepare and submit for the Chairman's Award.

Why?
1. Because it is the perfect way to document your team's history, accomplishments, and challenges.
2. Because it makes your team think about what your impact is on the team members, your sponsoring organization and on your community, and look at what partnerships you have developed.
3. Just for the experience of writing an intense essay, preparing a 5 minute presentation and filming a 3 minute video. You'll never fathom the hidden talents and abilities of the team members until you present them with this challenge.

And that's why I love quotes like this: Every team is unique and has something to offer. Please share it! You never know when your little gem could transform another team. And this is the number one reason that I do not think the bar is set to high on the Championship Chairman's Award. I think it truly recognizes a team that has gathered enough little gems to make it shine as it strives to spread all those tips and techniques with other teams.

But I agree with Jesse -
We get great feedback at the regional level - which programs do the judges feel are effective, which areas need work... I'd love to get feedback from the judges after Championship.

And now on the other side parts of this discussion...

For my team (1511), a large amount of our outreach / community service is also not FIRST related, but it is definately student oriented. One of our team goals is for leadership development for all students. We do that by requesting that all returning students organize a community service project that all of the team members can participate in. So we play games with nursing home residents, we clean highways, we sort medical supplies, we walk for Autism. Yes, we mentor FLL teams and support other FRC teams, but so far the judges are just as likely to recognize our non-technical community service as they are the FIRST activities for the impact it has on our students as well as the community. Ike, that is how we motivate the newbies. In the first year, they attend and particiate in a number of these activities with the knowledge that the next year they will have the challenge to organize one on their own. Our team goals are always the primary focus which minimizes the emphasis on the drive to win.

Do all teams hit this wall at some point? I have to admit that we did. A few years ago, we seriously considered not officially submitting but instead preparing a presentation for the other teams at our home regional on how to prepare a Chairman's presentation. Reasons #1-3 above overruled, but that was the year that we started posting our essay for others to see as soon as it was submitted and working on convincing other teams that the process was more important than the outcome.

And finally...
This is a great idea! I will share it with one of our students who is scratching his or her head over a possible community service project! Thanks for sharing!

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Desiring quality feedback isn't cheesy at all. Focusing solely on the extrinsic motivators and progressing from a standpoint of "what FIRST wants" solely, without regard for and discussion about intrinsic motivators, is, in my opinion, a bit cheesy.

Take it for what it's worth, I'm wrong a lot.


Now, Ike's questions with my responses:

1. How do you motivate your newest members to take on a noble cause? The kids we have worked with for 2-4 years seem to get it (some quicker than others). How should we be motivating the newbies?

Kids will certainly "get it" on different levels at different times. However, for the past five years with 1712 I've made an exhaustive effort from the beginning to do these types of things:
a. "You're here to have you life changed for the better - forever."
b. We built a motto with four legs of passion, leadership, perseverance, community and we pay equal attention to all of them
c. Our team members, all of them, spend as much time on outreach and community activities as we do on technical learning. Our robots are not as competitive as a result (we still do ok-ish), but I'm good with that. I certainly can't argue with the students we are turning out.
d. I explain over and over and over and over again that "only" building and competing with a robot is not something I'm interested in and participating in outreach is every bit as important. Not only will it help our community, it will build a mind and skill set that will give every student a leg up in the world while they are making it a better place.

2. How do you switch a team driven for the win over to driven for the goal? Especially when you are external to that team. As the number of teams increase, how do we plant the seed of altruism into an ever growing population. While this may not be Team 33's responsibility, it is the responsibility of FIRST as a whole and more specifcally how it applies to FRC.
Something I think a lot about and have posted on. Search around here for my "mainstreamers" theory. The desire and effort to win MUST still be there, but not at all/any cost. If we're not meeting the real goal, why bother? Let's just all go back to playing sports and yelling at refs and taunting other teams, right? I just continually preach, and then show successful examples from around FIRST and life, we invite in FIRST alums, we go visit them at work to see the REAL results, etc. It's an inexact and exhausting science, but we're doing OK with it.

3. Should someone that truly understands what Chairman's is about even re-submit? I am ok with a reactionary answer to this question, but I would much prefer some in-depth thought as this one has been bugging me since the Michigan State Championship.
Are you asking about a regional, state, or championship "win"? For some that might make a difference in the answer. For me, as long as a team is within the given rules in a year, it doesn't matter to me what a team does. If a team chooses not to resubmit and chooses to help other non-submitting teams to do it the first time, great. If a team resubmits because they want the students to experience the process/interview and they decide to provide a model to chase after, then great too. I do feel, that no matter what, each team should still document and prepare the award entry AND deliver the presentation to someone important (a school board, a sponsor, etc) in addition to or instead of event judges.

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

During our rookie year in 2000, MOE 365 was sitting in the FIRST Epcot ampitheater during the Nationals Awards ceremonies (it was called "Nationals" at that time), we listened intently to the description of the team that won the Chairman's Award that year. We were in awe of all that this team had done to spread the message of FIRST and to change the culture in their area of the world. That team was Team 16, The Baxter Bomb Squad. Our team members watched and saw how excited and overjoyed they were to have been recognized this way.

In the back of my mind, I was saying to myself, "Wow. What a team. I can't imagine all the work and effort that went into all they did." To me, personally, at that time, BBS was tops. Winning the top award in all of FIRST. Amazing.

Over time, with that memory in the back of my mind, I saw our team of green take FIRST's message to heart and do things in our local community that aligned with FIRST's mission. I remember Woodie Flowers telling all the students in attendance at that National Championship that each one should feel special, because only a very small percentage of students their age participated in FIRST. He was absolutely right. There were so many others that had yet to be inspired by FIRST. Opportunity was there.

Seven years later, after being so proud of students and mentors alike for starting local programs, growing interest in FIRST and science and technology in our area, and helping peers in many ways, it was our team who was on that stage accepting the (now) Championship Chairman's Award.

In the back of my mind, I recalled my sense of awe in Florida in 2000 and said to myself, " there is some team out there in the crowd, who will hear what our team has done, and will be inspired like we were." And I fully expect that team to be on a different Chairman's Award stage in the future.

We are all part of the legacy that FIRST has created. By doing what we can to connect more students to FIRST programs and have them experience the excitement of what science and technology can be, we are all part of "raising the bar" for our society. Thank you to all the teams that do this (and it truly is everyone). Special thanks to those who document it and share it with others.

Bring it on!

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

Simply put, there are more teams then there were 10 years ago. Thus, the bar keeps climbing............
Teams that are deserving year in and year out, will eventually get their due. 341 was due for a while now, and I can think of a few others where its only a matter of time.

Our team has applied 7 times in our history and have won it 4 times now. In 2002 SJ, 2006 LV, 2007 NJ we didnt win. We won in 2003, 2008, 09, and 10 in SJ, HI, HI, and AZ respectively. In 2003, we felt we had a well-rounded program, but was rather limited in our outreach and sustainability plan at the time. Currently, we are very proud of how far we have come, considering the challenge of being from Hawaii. To be able to meet many teams year after year and compete in multiple events throughout the year, it has been a great opportunity for our students!
My job is to ensure that these opportunities continue, learning from the best of teams. If you cant walk away from any tournament with at least 3 new innovative and impressive things teams are doing, then you've missed a great opportunity!

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

And this is what it's all about. Putting words down in text and video, to document what you have done as a team, to be able to show to the newbies 4 or 7 or 12 years from now when you are long gone.

Re: Chairman's Award -- is the bar too high now?
 

I think that the greater lesson in all of the awards in FIRST is simply something that is NOT taught in schools.

Too many students think that they can simply get an "A" by doing everything that is required.
Usually they do... so we get many 'A's. The value in the A has gone down....
An 'A' should be about going beyond what is required..... doing your best and finding new ways to do things or gaining new perspectives...

A 'C' is suppose to be for average work... doing the norm.... doing the minimum.... but for some reason that "BAR" has been raised to the point that students who do the minimum are now expecting to get an "A"

In real life... you don't get 'A's or awards... you work hard... you compete.... you learn and you produce.
You might get a raise or a thank you... but you do the work the best way you can...

FIRST might be better with no awards....
I would bet that everyone would still recognize the teams that inspire them....

Did everyone know that 341 was a team to emulate before the award?
OF COURSE they did.... When you move around the country you see what teams are all about.

Many teams have a tough enough time to just put together a robot and get to a regional...
This is a great accomplishment for them... they are inspired...

Other teams do more.... some teams do even more....

We need to celebrate in some way and the HOF is just a way we can acknowledge how some teams with the resources and the effort serve as role models for the rest of us...

Do you have to be HOF to be a role model? of course not...

On our team we are constantly reminded that we don't do outreach to get an award.
We do it because its the right thing to do....

Instead of worrying about awards... we need to feel self satisfaction and team satisfaction in the things we do....

I am not advocating the abolition of awards... or the efforts made in trying to achieve them but I really think we need to look inside ourselves for satisfaction...

I have been fortunate to work with many GREAT teams in the years I have spent in FIRST...
They are all winners... they have ALL influenced and inspired countless young minds....

It is in the striving to be better that we should find satisfaction....
In the overcoming of obstacles and learning how to work as a team...

My greatest joy and the thing that still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up is watching one of my team members working with a younger child.... seeing the lights go on in the child when they get to make a robot move.... or just see it move..... to be treated as an equal and excited by seeing what they can accomplish when they set their mind to it.....

This is why we are in FIRST....

Bar? what bar? set your own bar....then raise it yourself....

Someday you may look around and realize (as 341 did) that your bar is pretty high..
At that point you step down and help the other teams raise their bars....


In my classroom there are several quotes... but my favorite is one by Booker T Washington

"You measure the size of your accomplishments by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals..."


I am honored to be on the field with all of you.... and to work side by side with so many dedicated and hardworking mentors and students....