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-   -   pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85728)

548swimmer 08-05-2010 23:51

pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 

Dave McLaughlin 08-05-2010 23:54

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
I would recommend powering all of the wheels that will be in contact with the ground, including the Omni wheels. In addition to that, are you planning on using the custom traction wheels shown in this model? If so, do the spokes require 3D contouring?

548swimmer 08-05-2010 23:58

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave McLaughlin (Post 961095)
I would recommend powering all of the wheels that will be in contact with the ground, including the Omni wheels. In addition to that, are you planning on using the custom traction wheels shown in this model? If so, do the spokes require 3D contouring?

I'm not sure how to power the omni's when they're in a suspension. We may use the custom wheels, the spokes are flat, no fillet's into the rim.

Eugene Fang 09-05-2010 01:03

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 548swimmer (Post 961098)
I'm not sure how to power the omni's when they're in a suspension. We may use the custom wheels, the spokes are flat, no fillet's into the rim.

What, may I ask, is the point of the suspension?

kgzak 09-05-2010 01:21

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
could you possibly design a suspension that could keep a chain tensioned? Possible have it move around a point that would have the chain stay tensioned as it goes up and down?

Or could you have a chain tensioner that keeps a chain tensioned by use of springs and have the springs that hold the chain tensioned be easier to compress/expand than the spring or whatever you are using to make the wheels have suspension.

I am trying to design a suspension for our robot next year but the wheels would be powered in one way or another I don't see a point in having a suspension if you are not going to power the wheels. What is the reason behind having a suspension on unpowered wheels?

gyaniv 09-05-2010 01:30

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Why exactly do you need suspension?
Wouldn't it be much easier to lower the center wheels by about 1/8" and power the other wheels with chain? or just going flat 6WD?

548swimmer 09-05-2010 01:46

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
The suspension is there to improve handling, much like a rocker, only smoother.

I was thinking about widening the carriage for the suspension and putting a dual sprocket with a bearing on the dead axle that is the pivot point. Then run chain to the omni.

Eugene Fang 09-05-2010 01:51

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 548swimmer (Post 961112)
The suspension is there to improve handling, much like a rocker, only smoother.

I was thinking about widening the carriage for the suspension and putting a dual sprocket with a bearing on the dead axle that is the pivot point. Then run chain to the omni.

The point of using omnis is to avoid needing to "rock." I don't get how it would be smoother to have it rock AND have omnis.

And if you want it to rock, why don't you just drop the center and forget about the suspension?

If you want to still have the suspension, you could either do what you suggested or make the suspension go up and down along an arc with radius equal to the distance between the front and middle wheels, so the chain has a constant distance.

sanddrag 09-05-2010 01:54

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 548swimmer (Post 961112)
The suspension is there to improve handling

Have you encountered a deficiency in the handling of a rigid (non suspended) drive?

548swimmer 09-05-2010 02:00

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneF (Post 961113)
The point of using omnis is to avoid needing to "rock." I don't get how it would be smoother to have it rock AND have omnis.

And if you want it to rock, why don't you just drop the center and forget about the suspension?

If you want to still have the suspension, you could either do what you suggested or make the suspension go up and down along an arc with radius equal to the distance between the front and middle wheels, so the chain has a constant distance.

How can I make the carriages pivot around the center axel?

There is currently no rock at rest. Once you begin moving the suspension absorbs any jarring movements like sudden stops or turns, making it handle more smoothly.

Eugene Fang 09-05-2010 02:08

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 548swimmer (Post 961115)
There is currently no rock at rest. Once you begin moving the suspension absorbs any jarring movements like sudden stops or turns, making it handle more smoothly.

As sanddrag said, have you had any problems with a rigid drive? How much are you planning to have it rock? Too little rock and it would be practically the same as a rigid drive, and too much rock might affect accuracy of manipulating the game object due to uncontrollable front/back rocking.

Don't get me wrong, I think your idea is really cool. It's just the matter of seeing if all the effort to get it to work is worth it, and if the benefits are true benefits.

Eugene Fang 09-05-2010 02:11

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 548swimmer (Post 961115)
How can I make the carriages pivot around the center axel?

I don't know if this would work structurally, but you could cut slots and make a block that rides in the slot.

The other option would to be have a long arm pivoting on the center axle, but that might be too heavy/bulky for practicality.

548swimmer 09-05-2010 02:16

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneF (Post 961116)
As sanddrag said, have you had any problems with a rigid drive? How much are you planning to have it rock? Too little rock and it would be practically the same as a rigid drive, and too much rock might affect accuracy of manipulating the game object due to uncontrollable front/back rocking.

Don't get me wrong, I think your idea is really cool. It's just the matter of seeing if all the effort to get it to work is worth it, and if the benefits are true benefits.

We haven't had any issues with handling, but why not investagate this in the off season.

With springs tensioning the suspension, it will rock only as far as it needs to. Using a diff. eq. we can figure out the specs on the spring. Ideally, at rest, the spring keeps the wheels exactaly level. Once the robot starts moving and the CG "shifts" the springs will expand cushioning any sudden blow (like a rapid acceleration). Additionally, if this robot starts to get flipped, all wheels can stay on the ground providing some traction. The front ones would lift off the most, increasing the Fn on the rear and center


That still leaves the problem of chain runs though. I'm not sure a slot would have low enough friction, plus the exterior has to be smooth for the bumpers.

EricH 09-05-2010 02:56

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
How about this: Run the chain so that it is long enough to handle the longest dimension, and stick a couple of McMaster part 5896K1 in there as tensioners. That should help keep the chain tensioned correctly, if you don't have too big of difference between longest and shortest chain runs.

548swimmer 09-05-2010 03:04

Re: pic: Prototype Drivetrain v2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 961121)
How about this: Run the chain so that it is long enough to handle the longest dimension, and stick a couple of McMaster part 5896K1 in there as tensioners. That should help keep the chain tensioned correctly, if you don't have too big of difference between longest and shortest chain runs.

We use 25 chain though, so that won't work. I guess we could always make our own...

Do you have any experience with whether or not these fall out or how they work? I don't see how they could tension in a situation like this.


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