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[BB] What Do You Want at St. Louis Championships
From Bill's Blog, he's looking for comments on what's important to have in St. Louis next year.
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...10-season.html "With a new venue comes new opportunities. Everything about CMP is under discussion at the moment, the size of the pits, the location of playing fields, the schedule, the food, even the role of suppliers and exhibitors. What is the most important element of CMP for your team? Playing in the dome? Having a pit next to other teams in your division? Robo Prom? You tell me. Also, thinking outside the CMP box for a second, what don’t we have at CMP right now that you’d like to include in the future? I’ll be interested to see your comments below." You might want to drop Bill a note on his Blog. |
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With the addition of more matches that they did this year, maybe they could try two fields per division and run them how they did the "super" regionals. While one field is being reset the other is running a match. That way teams could get more matches and they might not have to scramble as much to get robots inspected by 12 on Thursday.
However this all boils down to space at the venue, i don't really know how big the venue is in St. Louis. |
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Here is a link to a map of the Edward Jones Dome at America's Center in St Louis. http://www.explorestlouis.com/meetin...Tour/index.asp
Our team has not been able to go to Atlanta, but I went one year to observe. The first thing I realized was the distance from the pits to the field. The St Louis layout looks much closer, assuming the pits are in the halls marked 4 and 5 and the other areas (vending, merchandise, etc) are further away. After further inspection, I am realizing that Hall 6 is directly under? the football stadium. Interesting. |
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"No. It is the rabbit." The venue in St. Louis is large enough for the pits and fields and spectators for all 4 events at the Championship. However, I'm 99% certain that it would be difficult to get a second field per division in there. I've been there, and I'd say that it would be possible to get those extra fields if and only if FTC and FLL and JFLL were held in the America's Ballroom (upstairs from the convention halls) and the theater in the complex and the other side rooms, or in a lobby area on the second floor. That would clear a space where Franklin and Edison typically go, and open up Einstein for use in matches. Some clever floor arrangement could get the rest of the space. I don't think it's worth the effort, though, particularly since now you're taking FTC and FLL robots up stairs. |
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We were a bit disappointed in 2003 to find that we were somewhat of a "side show" to the big robots. That said, we were near the pathway between the pits and the field, so we got to watch robots stream by all day. However, being in our own little world meant we could speak to the judges in a normal speaking tone, and watch other robots compete. On the floor of the Dome, we did get to see the FRC robots competing, but they still were never really introduced to us (I was already on 1276 though, so I took a great interest! :cool:). That said, it still felt sort of like a side show because we couldn't hear ourselves think over the noise from Curie and Galileo. The path was also not well marked between areas (this may have changed in the past 5 years) so we managed to get very lost between the GWCC and the Dome. The mesh never seemed quite right. My dad was really interested in FRC in 2003, so he went out of his way to talk to FRC teams about the program, and we even had one team (the robot was green, I think it was MOE) who showed us kids all sorts of neat-o robot stuff. In 2006 when 1276 went as an FRC team, we went out of our way to show our robot to Maine's FLL team. Through official channels we learned surprising little about the big robots travelling every which way round us. |
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Is there anything like the CNN center for food near the site of the championships in St. Louis. If not is there anyway FIRST could bring in cheap affordable vendors.
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At the championships, I love the atmosphere. I almost wish the pits were organized completely numerically rather than by division, yet there are major disadvantages with that setup as well.
I don't mind the long haul from the pits to the dome in Atlanta. It's a trek, but that means we get TONS of exercise and MUST be organized (or get organized quickly). I'd like to see Wednesday's agenda cleaned up or better organized. Do we bring a skeleton crew on Wednesday or the whole team? If we bring the whole team, what on Earth will they do the whole time if only a couple of people are allowed to do any work in the pits and (let's say) only half attend conferences? If we only bring a skeleton crew, then why do the rest of the students have to miss the opportunities to see FRC Titans present conference material in person and ask questions afterwards? It's a minor paradox, but due to the high quality of Wednesday's conferences as they apply to the FRC build season, I'd like to see more students have the opportunity to come. Does St. Louis offer more conference room space for Thursday/Friday? |
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After years of hearing people complain about how "awful" Atlanta was crime wise when in reality they weren't even on the list of the most dangerous cities in America we are now going to the second most dangerous city in America.
I think assuring the safety of every team, volunteer and spectator attending the event is of the highest priority. Especially after some of the misfortune that had happened to a couple of teams at this year's championship. |
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However, don't bring in cheap affordable vendors when they're already there. $5 for a plate of good spaghetti, and that's just one of the options. Just make sure that you go to the carts, NOT the stands. (And, make sure the carts are out--if anyone in FRC operations sees this, it would be a good idea to confirm that they will be out during the event.) There are also a large number of places within a few minutes' walk. They range from fast food/subs all the way up to T.G.I. Friday's or better. Or send someone for pizza or something like that--there are some good places in a short radius. I've been working on a writeup on the area around the America's Center for a little while now. Guess I better finish it up pretty quickly... |
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The carts don't have anything more than about $5, IIRC. |
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I would like for my mother-in-law and my son to be allowed to use elevators and/or escalators, as needed, and without suffering any indignity for needing to.
Even if it means they might have to pass through a VIP area. :( |
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Many teams shop for groceries to make healthy breakfasts, lunches, and snacks for their teams. It would be totally AWEsome to have information provided in advance so that teams that will be traveling to St. Louis for the Championship event will know what is available and where. Names of the businesses and maps/distances would be very helpful. If nothing is close by for teams in the way of groceries - that information is very important to know - and if possible, alternative solutions be created/provided that won't destroy already tight budgets.
It's very cool that the Robo Prom was mentioned. Now would be a great time for folks to say if they think it is valuable and an asset to the event. Jane |
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How about some simple stuff like letting students carry a water bottle, snacks and candy into the event.
And please let the security people know that teams will line up before doors open, and they will be carrying a lot of stuff into the pits. |
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I would like to see the President of the United States attend and speak, and I would like to see hot pizza at the after party. I would also like to see more team members allowed into the pits on Wednesday evening, and the wrist-band process replaced with a computer-printable bar-code pass, or just a name check-in. I also would like to see an established process for transferring pit areas from the pits to the fieldside, for teams competing in the finals, and more members allowed here as well.
Also, I would like to see an increase in sound quality and a decrease in sound volume. |
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See what I did there? :D |
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I would like to see JFLL, FLL, and FTC take a bigger role. Those students have worked just as hard as FRC students have. This year, my FRC team's pit was right by FTC and FLL, and it was great when the FLLers came over to say "Hi!" They could grasp the concept of our robot better than most kids their age. Getting to meet them was one of the highlights of my trip.
I think FLL and FTC should remain with the FRC fields, on the dome floor. I watched some of the FLL robots in Atlanta this year, and I was impressed with their design and engineering principles applied. |
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I learn so much from the FLL teams. Every year. Jane |
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Assuming the Edward Jones Dome is like the Georgia dome, I would like them to open up the upper levels to sit for the entire time (instead of just for the finals on Einstein). Maybe they could just open for scouts and enforce a 'no standing' policy. I think this would solve a lot of the seating complaints but would require some more staffers.
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One reason that I think it is important for every student in FIRST to be able to experience the Championship event at least once in their young life - is to see how really big it is and how many teams are involved from all over the world. The Championship event also brings home the value and importance of the sponsors and suppliers and just makes everything more real, even though everything is more fantastic.
One thing that I would love to see some quality time spent on is the layout and accessibility of Scholarship Row, the Hall Of Fame displays/teams, the Woodie Flowers Award recipients and their bios/information, the Dean's List, and the Championship Conference presentations. All of these, together, should be a highlight and a beautiful centerpiece that showcases the FIRST possibilities well to the students, the mentors, the parents, the sponsors and supporters, the guests, and the general public. These elements of the Championship should not be spread out all over the place but should be in the same area that is easily accessed, noticed, and made available. None of these should be short changed, overlooked, or given last minute attention and space. Jane |
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There were line arrays hung for all the fields as well as fills and subs down on the floor. I checked the operator's position on Curie and there was a sense mic on top of the console throughout the event. However, operators cannot be on duty at all times so there are guest players that step in during the day. What I don't know but suspect, is that they tie into the venue system for Einstein and other presentations to fill everywhere. Can I add that higher resolution screens on the division fields would be nice, but understandably more expensive. |
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So far there are almost 30 replies to this thread, but only 11 comments on Bill's Blog. Bill may or may not be reading CD, but I'd bet he is reading the comments on his blog. If you want your suggestions heard, make sure you post there as well.
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Another thing I didn't mention. At the after-party, I would like to see a well-known, quality musical performer/group.
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Please do not make us cut our banner poles in 1/2 again because it is a dome rule. These are not weapons.
Double the amount of people you let in on Wednesday. Have something formally planned for Wednesday and Thursday night in the vicinity other than prom. Mix the vendors in with the pits. They are valuable to us and I bet many did not even know they were there. |
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A reminder to post these comments on Bill's Blog, not just this CD thread.
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So I know this has been a hit with more matches and such. But who would like to see the top 12 in each division?
In a nutshell, the top 12 will go to elimination matches. 1, 2, 3, 4 seeded alliances get a bye. 5v12, 6v11, 7v10, 8v9 Then the winners of those verse the top 4. Gives more teams a chance at nationals since there are more teams. |
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Another attempt to gather our opinions about just the Finale party is this survey:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=85923 |
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Although I've never been to Worlds, I would love to see the outside noisemakers lifted with prior approval. I realize that this would add a great deal to the logistics of Worlds, but as part of Dean's homework last year, 1293 would like to bring a conglomerate of our 3 schools' marching bands as a way to bring more people to FIRST, and to help our chances with the spirit award. I understand that they have music playing in between matches, but if the band could play at the very beginning (during autonomus) and right after each match, it wouldnt cause interference with the DJ.
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Beyond that, easy walking distance between the pit and the field is all I can ask for. I got sooo lost the first time I tried sprinting from one area to the next. I also enjoyed having the FTC pits near FRC, I loved being able to take a break from scouting to go through and talk to them and learn about their designs. |
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I have not been to the St. Louis venue, however, it seems as though there is enough room to place one additional full arena in hall 5. If scheduling is possible, could this extra field be used for "interleague" play as pro baseball does it. That would allow for more matches, between teams in other divisions and still get enough matches in and alleviate some time crunch.
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I'd say that while it's possible to place a field there, it's unlikely.
FIRST Championships has to account for the following: --FRC Championship Event (5 FRC fields, plus 2 in the pits and 2 more in their trailers) --FTC Championship Event (2+ FTC fields--figure about 1 FRC field per pair spacewise, maybe 1 FRC/4 FTC) --FLL World Festival (fits on Einstein Field during Thursday and Friday) --JFLL --Hall of Fame --Scholarship area --Supplier showcase --Pit and storage space for all of the above I predict the following layout: FRC/FTC fields in the Arena FRC/FTC/FLL pits in the various conference halls (my guess would be 3, 4, 5 for distance to the arena, with part of 2 as extra space) Conference/judging rooms, volunteer lounge, VIP area in the America's Center rooms Storage in Hall 1 or Hall 2, maybe both (crates, field cases). It would be an interesting trick to get inter-divisional play on a 6th field, but I'd rather see it used as the "hurry-up" field for if a field is more than a match or two behind schedule, or an inter-divisional practice field. Or, better yet: Put the speeches in there and have Einstein actually finish on time!:D |
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I would love to see a Starbucks confession stand (I am pretty sure they had one in Atlanta..)
And less distance between the pits and the field, we had to stage a half hour before our match to get there in time. |
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Sometimes you have to stop and look around..FTC and FLL are kindof sideshowish in most people's minds but have you seen the robots?? They may no be as big as a fridgeorator or anything but sometimes they are more complex than even the best FRC robot. FTC last year for example....my god the things people thought of to get balls off the floor and into goals. and this year....you basically have to build a bomb dissarming robot to move the batons around..with the rolling goal concept and the mountain that FRC had to deal with last year. with the "teeter tooter" as our added..fun.
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I personally would love to see the return of sundial at the championship event.
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Sundial was a network-based service that tapped into field feeds to provide a time estimate to a team's next match--and an estimate of how far behind the field was running.
With it being on a network/wireless, use was stopped sometime around 2008/2009 due to wireless concerns. Hopefully it can make a comeback--it was incredibly useful for "We're in match 45, it's supposed to be in 15 minutes, but they're only on match 33, so we've got an extra hour to make those improvements" or "Uh... Guys, they're running ahead. GET TO THE FIELD!". |
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Pity about the wireless rules :( |
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It would be great for a local like yourself give us an idea of what's good and reasonable in the area for the teams!
It might require some sacrifice on your part to do some serious sampling....... |
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I might have to get at a handbook I was given when attending a conference last winter at the America's Center. I think there were 80+ places to eat within a short walk; it wouldn't hurt for someone to see if they're still there. Handbook's at home, I'm at school 1500 miles away... Plus it has a map of where stuff is. (Or maybe my parents could get at it and get you a list of places to check...)
Or, simple solution to food: Send someone for Imo's. That's some good pizza... |
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Just got back from Union Station. Places to eat there include: Hardrock Cafe, Panda Express, Subway, Quiznos Subs, Gateway Burgers, Tollhouse cookies and ice cream (a Tollhouse stand), and various places for pizza, burgers, philly cheese steak sandwiches, fudge and more. Definitely a variety in eating choices if you choose to take the trip away from the stadium. Although in a previous post I said that the station was empty because of the economy, several new places have opened up (like Gateway Burgers, I suggest eating there, as they serve top quality food for a fair price.)
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Thanks for the intel!
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Where would the best rib joint be?
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Barney's BBQ. I should know, I worked there summers during high school and some of my college years. I would put Barney's ribs up against any anywhere including down here in Austin, TX. http://www.barneysbbq.com/Home_Page.html They are open weekends during the summer and I'm not sure when opening weekend is but I could send an e-mail and let them know FIRST is going to be downtown. I'm not kidding you - the BBQ is unbelievable. It has a secret sauce that they wouldn't even tell me what was in it. And their beans are amazing. Jane |
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Jane,
It does look like a hike.....maybe we could arrange something: "We do catering as well for family or company outings. For further info please contact us at 636-227-2300 or you through email at TToone@barneysbbq.com" We ARE a family! |
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There is nothing like good BBQ from the midwest. Unfortunately good BBQ never made it over the Rockies... sigh. |
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And they are nowhere near the venue but, it sure would be an awesome opportunity. *sigh* Perhaps Jon can work some magic. :) Here's a link to some other restaurants: http://www.urbanspoon.com/nf/28/2708...ue-Restaurants Jane |
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Laclede's Landing: When I was in St. Louis for a conference last winter, we were told that you don't want to go into that area after dark--and this was a bunch of college students. Good idea to go in with a big group. |
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What do I want at Championships? I'd like to see a non-engineering mentor from each team attend the annual NEMO meeting on Friday! ;) Details to follow on the NEMO website as the date gets closer.
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Not too far from downtown either. |
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IKE made a post in another thread and it made me think of how cool it would be for teams to show some of the changes that have occurred/evolved over the past 20 years in FRC. Maybe teams could be invited to bring things to the Championship and have them on display in their pit, or have a photo album available to show folks as they tour the pits, showing some of the changes that we've grown through such as the satin sheet with zippers and secrecy. It would be nice to have a display near the HoF teams' display, showing a timeline of change/changes and highlighting some of the folks that influenced the changes such as Andy Baker.
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team 2849 wants to qualify for st. louis in our 3rd year we think we can make this happen due to expperience we had toward the end of last season if not for a gearbox malfunction
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It might be out of budget for the event, but perhaps you should invite Carole King. Little Eva is regrettably not available. Carole was co-author of the Loco-Motion song that is so prominent in pre-kickoff speculation about the game design. Just don't tell me that we'll have to evacuate the pits for her appearance as we did for President Bush. :cool:
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