Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

Society will always apply pressure. That's a reality.
Another reality is that many of the mentors in FIRST are applying pressure, too:

to think.

Jane

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I agree with the comic as to the reason why there are fewer women engineers. Do I like it? No. Is it true? I think so, at least in part.

And it's only true for some cases - if I had been given Transformers and skateboards and Batmobiles and action figures as a kid, I probably would have still been dead set against engineering until I joined my team freshman year. I didn't become fascinated with the way things worked until that year. I never wanted to turn out like my mom, with an engineering degree. EVER. I hated math. H-a-t-e-d m-a-t-h. Why would I EVER want to do math for a living? That's not fun. Science is fun, math is not. I want to play my instrument and teach little kids how to read music.

I think that it depends a lot on the environment that the girls are raised in, as others have said before me. Two X chromosomes doesn't make us incapable of engineering, but it changes what is generally expected of us. It's really a not-so-obvious form of sexism that stems from the beginning of time, when the men did the hunting and the women cooked supper. Even after the civil rights movement, women were still looked down upon in society. But it's changing now, with so much more pressure on kids growing up to become scientists and so much more emphasis on education for everyone (despite the influence of pop culture, which isn't making a lot of effort to promote the idea of girls growing up to be anything but nurses and teenage "rock" stars, IMHO). This is something that will change gradually over time. McDonalds has already given up on the girl/boy toys...right? Maybe with the next generation we'll see more of a change. Maybe in 20 years, the 6-year-old girls will be encouraged to play with toy drums as well as making their dolls look pretty.

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

The hard part is that in the realm of parenting we have not yet figured out the fail proof combination to make children turn out the way we imagined they will.

I have two brothers. All three of us ended up in some sort of engineering career. (Why am I an engineer? Because my HS guidance counselor told me I should become one. According to my classmates, that was the only good advice he ever gave anyone.) I am married to an engineer. I have two children, a son and a daughter. As a mother and an engineer, I used all available resources to make sure that my children were exposed to science and math and technology from the get-go. My son was known as Mr. Technology by his teachers in elementary school. My daughter was a dinosaur expert at age 2. Science and math were favorite subjects. The whole world was open to them; surely they would pick technical careers!

Nope. After a semester of computer science, my son decided that a culinary career appealed to him more. My daughter? Film and Media studies. What happened? For children the message that should come out above all is "you can be anything you want to be." That's what my kids took to heart.

Did I raise an male engineer? Did I raise a female engineer? No, and no. As parents we make lots of mistakes, but honestly, I don't think I did anything overwelmingly wrong when it came to providing them with toys and experiences that would help them determine their future careers. They are who they are. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that they turn out ok. And that when they are a little older, they will give me grandchildren and I can try to turn them into engineers. :rolleyes:

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I was leaning toward leaving this thread alone, but this statement changed my mind.

From a parent's perspective (since we're being blamed here) we should not be about molding our children into any particular vision we have for their future, other than to prepare them to be happy, law-abiding, and self-sufficient -- basically good citizens.

I raise my daughter in a way I hope will make her feel totally empowered and entitled to dismiss and reject any notion that her gender is a limiting factor in any endeavor she might choose to undertake.

More important (to me) than whether she ultimately becomes an engineer, a lawyer, a waitress, or a lady wrestler is that she must be unflinchingly intolerant of any pressure, from any source, to only do girl stuff.

When she was little, if she wanted a Barbie, she got one.
If she wanted a chemistry set, she got one.
If she wanted a 4-wheeler, she got one.

A couple years ago, at a family gathering, my son (he was nearly 4 then) saw that one of the little girls had a pink Barbie purse.
He wanted to play with it, but she wouldn't share.
So, I got in the car, went to Walmart and bought him one -- pinker than pink and loaded up with Barbie cell phone, makeup and stuff.
He's nearly 6 now and he still has it.
This last Mother's day, the family all went to Bob Evans (about 23 of us) for brunch and Georgie 'had to' take the purse with him.
Everyone in the family knows how I feel about gender stereotypes, so nobody said a word. :)
No comments that I might make him gay or effeminate, which is bull.
A few nearby patrons gave him odd looks -- as if their small-minded opinions matter :cool:

Our children have an inalienable right to be whatever they have the passion and drive to be.
As an engineer who is married to an engineer, I would love for Addi to become an engineer.
But I guarantee you, if she doesn't become an engineer, it won't be because she was born female.
And if my son grows up to become a chef or a fashion designer, it won't be because I bought him a Barbie purse when he was four. :D

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I just saw this comic yesterday on an app for my iPod. I chuckled at it too.

As this has already been stated, it shows how our society really is and how its values are still stereotypical. Now that I am in robotics, I wish that I had been able to play with more building-type of toys as a kid. I absolutely LOVE working in the shop. In fact, my rookie year on the team I was the only female in the manufacturing portion of the team, and I took pride in that.

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

No one is blaming parents (or at least not intentionally).

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

Hhmm, then I must have missed the point of the cartoon and what it explains. :)

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

Outside influences should be considered. Children are exposed to a barrage of influences that don't start or stop with the parental role models. It is your assumption that the voice is the parent's.

It wasn't too long ago that I was told that I needed to learn to: cook, clean, iron, and sew; that those skills would be needed when I got married. When my father was dying with cancer, among his last thoughts and worries that he shared with his wife, my mother, was that she taught me everything I needed to know: cook, clean, iron, and sew. The influences and traditions of their generation were guiding them in their development of their parenting skills. Change occurred (as it occurred when they were children, only differently) bringing in opportunities for educational advancement, careers where there weren't any, options where none had been considered, and voices where there had been quiet near silence.

Part of becoming complacent with change is the laziness of assuming. Society assumes the work is done. The attitude of: change has occurred so what's all the fuss about? The fuss is about the depth of the changes that have been forged and are being made in current society's approaches and views. How much time, money, and effort is expended by the culture-shaping ever powerful media - on women who make a difference in helping our world and cultures become healthier, happier, and stronger, as opposed to how the time is spent demoralizing women, showcasing rape, violence, abuse, addiction, and shallowness? How much time is spent showing that women are inventors, engineers, rocket scientists, community advocates, and powerful role models? How many companies can showcase and brag about the talented and skilled women that they've hired - with professional credentials that will make jaws drop and eyes pop?

Society has to build thicker skills, roll up its sleeves, and get to work. Nothing should be assumed or taken for granted. There's a lot of work to do, including helping comics showcase girls and women as significant and important achievers and role models who make a difference and will continue to. Impact is awesome, especially productive and influential impact when used wisely and with purpose.

Jane

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I'm fascinated by this comic, as it assumes that the roles are created because of outside influences, instead of how each child is themselves. It's taking a stance that the reason there are not as many women in engineering is because they are treated differently as children and given different toys, and while I realize this is the case in some situations still, I think that on a large scale this concept is going out of style, at least in the United States.

For example: I teach preschool, in an middle-upper class area in Michigan. My classroom is full of 4-5 year olds. We have quite the toy choices in our rooms, and we never tell the children what they can and cannot play with baised on their gender. And we never suggest to a child that they may like a specific toy, based on their gender. And yet, 90% of the time the boys play in the block area and the girls are in the art area.

Interestingly enough, the LEGOs seems to get the most play out of everything, from both boys and girls. The difference in their play: boys build rocket ships and robots and UFOs, while the girls build houses, hotels and zoos.

From my own experience: I grew up as big a "tomboy" as they come: running barefoot through the woods, jumping in puddles, building towers with scraps of wood and smashing them down to see what happens, playing baseball and kickball and football in the street. My parents gave me trucks for my birthdays along with My Little Ponies. And still, I grew up to be more of a literary person than a math person. Perhaps if I would have had a better math teacher in middle school the outcome would have been different, but maybe not.

I'm not sure we can point to any one thing that would make more girls consider engineering as a career...but FIRST is definitely a start. As another mentor on our team has said: it's okay if you graduate from our program and decide to persure a career outside science, math and technology...as long as you learned something and can handle tools and know how to figure things out without your spouse needing to handle it all for you.

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

You know, I was always given dolls as a kid. They all banded together and formed a congress, and poor Ken was banned from the doll house, and the females converted Barbies fantasy home into a work shop. They used it to fix Barbies air plane and cars.
They really should make more toys that aren't directed at just one gender, and people shouldn't force their ideals of what girls can do on children. It's really unfair.

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I don't think there's any individual to "blame", and I don't want to accuse anyone of bad parenting. There are tremendous social pressures to do many things when you raise kids, and gender roles are just part of it. Personally, if/when I become a parent, my goal will be to expose my kids to everything I can -- art, music, engineering, science, reading, whatever -- in a variety of ways to make sure they know what's open to them. Maybe my daughter(s) will still go in to nursing and my son(s) will still be engineers, but that's fine -- as long as I feel like I've given them all a fair chance to find something they love.

I remember at one point reading some pop sci article on gendered toys, and the article referenced a study where a variety of toys were given to chimpanzees to play with. Apparently the female chimpanzees, in addition to choosing dolls, regularly chose to play with "pink-colored kitchen toys." The article concluded that female apes (including humans) are biologically programmed to like these sorts of things. My question: how the hell does a chimpanzee know what kitchen tools are or do and since when would an ape consider cooking a role for either gender?

We don't know for sure whether it's all nature, all nurture, or somewhere in between. If it is nature, we can't change it. If it is nurture to any degree, we can influence it -- and why shouldn't we work to give everyone a shot at a fun, exciting, lucrative career like engineering and science?

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

I just noticed that this quote has been spotlit from a technical thread here in CD. I'm saddened that it was included as one of the cons of chain in technical thread, that someone decided to spotlight it, and that one of the moderators decided to approve the spotlight.

Clearly, there is still work to do.

Yes, this type of thinking puts my knickers in a twist.

Jane

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

?

Its just a joke.


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Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

What is the purpose of the joke in relationship to the chain?

Re: Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all
 

It also reinforces gender stereotypes and in general sets the change in the culture we're all pushing for exactly backward.