Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Correct me if this isn't the right place for this...


I am doing a little bit of scouting for IRI. It is a database of the teams attending IRI and the specs about their robot and competition season.
There are a lot of great teams and FIRSTChat and BlueAlliance don't have everything about a team. I have taken a look at 1114's database(which is great, BTW), and I need info that is slightly more up-to-date. Plus, many teams make drastic changes to their 'bots in the summer.

I'd like to hear from the teams themselves.



If your team is going, can you please give me these specs of your team and bot:

Team:

• Events Attended(individual divisions, Einstein is a separate event and records for each
  
• Highest scored match(ex: Arizona Regional, Qual XX, 12-15, LOSS) (winning or losing)
  
• Season record as of the end of the World Championship

Robot:

• Does your Robot hang?
• Over the bump?
• Through the tunnel?
• Drivetrain specs?
• Special notes? (Hang time, position, driver changes from competitions, perferred field placement)

A link to a picture would also be great

All the help I can get is appreciated:D

I will release the app when I get sufficient information(65 or more teams).

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Writing an app might be harder than something like a simple PDF. But if you're going to do my precouting work for me I won't complain.

I would ask people for hang time and position as well. I can't think of anything else particularly useful.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I would also include if the team is using their usual drivers or not. I do not think it is a coincidence that atleast 2 of last year's IRI winners (1625, 68; not sure about 469) used their normal drivers.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

While I can't argue with the PDF idea, i will say this:
The app is quite simple, actually. It is written in java. It loads an XML of team data. With some changes, It can be used from competition to competition with no problem. Contributions from the CD community are the most reliable source for the data

Those are good Ideas. I guess that would go under notes.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Well, can't give ya much more than the win loss stuff for every single team. Hope it helps.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

We're going.
All of our win/loss data and match scores are on TBA. But, I'll include them anyways:
Events Attended: 4

Kettering District (week one)
Record: 14-6-0 in entire competition, including elims.
Highest match scores: 9-12 qual 45 WIN, 14-6 Finals3 LOSS
Other notes: GM Industrial Design award.

Troy District (week four)
Record: 14-3-3 in entire competition, including elims.
Highest match scores: 0-16 qual 61 WIN
Other notes: District Chairmans award, Coopertition award.

Michigan State Championship (week five)
Record: 11-4-1 in entire competition, including elims.
Highest match scores: 20-10 qual73 WIN, 26-12 qual25 LOSS (against 469)
Other notes: State Chairmans award.

Archimedes Division:
Record: 13-3-0 in entire competition, including elims.
High scores: 18-7 QF2, WIN, 21-17 Finals2, LOSS

Season totals:
Record: 52-16-4
Highest won match: 20-10 qual73 at MSC
National GM Industrial Design award.

Robot features:
Hangs quickly from vertical pole every time. We only missed one hang in Arch. because we were knocked off by an opponent (red card violation) and we almost hung again.
Deploys from start in 2 seconds (while driver is lining up), lifts in 4 seconds after locked. Not hard to line up - Driver rams the claw into the pole. If it's within the two antennas (about 12" space), it will latch.
Goes over bump smoothly, center wheels float to maintain stability and ensure that no wheel is more than 2" above the ground or bump. Traverses bump at full speed in low gear (aprox. 6 ft/sec). No tunnel, but it can just as easily climb the bump.
Drivetrain: 6wd floating-center, center wheel can be forced down to drop-center by arm. All wheels powered. 2-speed trans, 12ft/sec and 6 ft/sec.
Collector: top-roller pincher type collector, floating assembly to avoid carrying penalties.
Kicker: spring-powered kicker with window-motor recoil, software variable and linearized (it kicks about 35 feet, so I'll say 33 since thats a really nice number. Roller automatically ejects ball when kicking to limit roller's resistance to kick.
We will have the same drivers for IRI.
No camera tracking, but camera display on Dashboard (not enough power to do tracking)

We are changing almost nothing during the summer (OK, we are adding some stickers and changing the tire treads).
Pictures: I dont have any right now, but if you search for Kettering or Michigan State Championship pictures, Daniel Ernst from LasGuerrillas posted a ton of pics from those events, and we are in there.
My favorites from MSC:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniele...7623766907840/
Oh yeah - we've got some new bot bottoms for IRI.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I'm planning on collecting this data anyway, so I'll send you a PM with what I get in order to help you out. :)

Anyway 1714's info for you. I didn't get to work on the robot or with the team much this year (just Championship scouting) but here's what I got.

Wisconsin Regional (week two)
Record: 9-5-2 (6-2-2)
Highest match scores: 10-4 QF2-2 WIN, 7-9 QF2-1 LOSS
Other notes: Engineering Inspiration, Excellence in Design

Minnesota 10,000 Lakes Regional (week five)
Record: 13-1-2 (7-0-2)
Highest match scores: 13-9 SF1-2 WIN, 6-8 SF1-1 LOSS
Other notes: UL Industrial Safety, Engineering Excellence, Coopertition, Regional Winner

Galileo Division
Record: 8-7-0 (6-4-0)
Highest match scores: 20-0 Qual 132 WIN (hostile 6v0), 19-11 Qual 121 WIN, 0-14 QF4-1 LOSS
Other notes: KCP&B Entrepreneurship Award

Robot:
1714 does not hang.
We can go over the bump or under the tunnel.
6wd, 4 CIMs through AM Gen2 shifting guts with custom lexan sideplates, it goes fast and stuff.
Same drive team for IRI.
Vacuum possession system and spring loaded kicker.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 343

Events:
Florida:
11-5
Number 7 seed (number 4 alliance captain)
Semi-finalist
Xerox Creativity Award

Palmetto:
14-3-1
Number 1 seed
Champions
Xerox Creativity Award

Newton Division:
13-4-1
Number 15 seed
Selected by #2 Alliance
Finalists

Total Record: 38-12-2

Notes:
-Hang on vertical pole
-Over the bump
-Under the tunnel
-Ball magnet for control
-Kicker that can score from opposite end of the field
-Tank treads (trying to change to 8 wheel drive, not sure)
-2 Speed
-New drivers
-Preferred Start: Far Zone


Highest Scoring Match: Newton QF 3-1 final score of 25-13 (win)

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Not info related, but.
Does anyone have any problems with a text-based app? I'm no good with Java Swing. I know some of the stuff, but barely enough to get it by IRI. I can put out version later and have people tell me what they think.

I wrote a BAT file to launch it in windows, if you are linux or mac, you're on your own in launching the JAR.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Scratch my previous post, I found a couple great tutorials about the subject. I migh have it done a week before the event

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Blue Cheese 1086

Events:
Virginia Regional (NASA/VCU)
9-2-4
(Initial 14th seeding rank) first pick by 1st Seed
Champions
Engineering Inspiration Award

North Carolina
14-2-0
1st Seed (Alliance Captain)
Champions
Motorola Quality Award

Galileo
14-2-0
1st Seed (Alliance Captain)
Finalists
Coopertition Award

Total: 37-6-4
Highest score: Galelio Qualification Match 121 (19 Points)

Robot Notes: (As of Atlanta)
Six Wheel Tank Drive (Super-Shifters and 4 SIMs)
12 or 5 Feet per Second
Powerful and Accurate Pneumatic/Surgical Tubing Kicker (Over one bump and bounces over second)
Reliable Pinch Roller (Fisher Price)
Over the Bump
6in Plaction Wheels
Capable of starting in any Zone

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Happily, the EngiNERDs are attending IRI for the first time ever! I don't know if I will personally attend, but I wouldn't miss it if I could.

Team: 2337 "EngiNERDs"
Events Attended(individual divisions, Einstein is a separate event and records for each

Kettering District: (10-5-2) Semifinalists, Spirit Award
Ann Arbor District: (15-3-2) CHAMPIONS, Quality Award
Michigan State Championship: (7-5-2) Quarterfinalists (ran into 469 :( )
Curie Divison - World Championship: (8-5-0) Quarterfinalists

Highest scored match 17-10 (469, 67, 2048 vs. 2337, 397, 308 at MSC) LOSS

Season record as of the end of the World Championship (40-18-6)

Robot:
Does your Robot hang? Y
Over the bump? N
Through the tunnel? N
Drivetrain specs? 4-wheel Mecanum with Toughboxes
Special notes? (Hang time, position, driver changes from competitions, perferred field placement)
-WE SUSPEND. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXxvgInsI0 One of 3 worldwide, only one in Michigan.
-WE HANG. FAST. With rough timing off of a YouTube video, under five seconds. It also makes an awesome sound.
-WE START IN THE MIDDLE. ALWAYS. Our robot has a ground clearance of about an inch, as early in the build season we decided having the ability to travel between zones was not a good focus for our team. As well, we have a low CG (was only flipped once in the final match in the elims at Curie, as the opposing robot jammed a ball under our robot and then got us stuck on the bump)
-Before MSC, we put on a deflector onto our hanger (see video above with the suspension for more info). We can deflect while hanging and on the ground. When in the air, there is a V at the bottom to deflect balls in the general direction of the goal. With team 910 at MSC, we won 19-5 (highest score where we won) by simply deflecting for them.
-Our new drive team (same coach) for next season will be introduced at TARDEC this weekend, then MARC, and then IRI.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Quick update:

Since there have been no contributions in 2 days, I'll make a list of the teams whose info I have.

GREEN - Means up to date, complete
ORANGE - Means no incomplete or out of date
BLACK- Means I have ZERO info

If you are shown in ORANGE or BLACK, post your info here,
If you are shown in GREEN, thank you very much!

If you don't want to reveal your team's info, I respect your privacy, just shoot me a PM saying you don't want to, or with the info there.

App updates:
I plan on a Fourth of July release date for the app.(given that I have sufficient team information
The graphical version has been coming along well and the text version just got a rewrite.
It is in java, so it is OS neutral.

I can also have the data in various text formats if you cannot afford to bring a laptop to the event.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 294: Beach Cities Robotics

Events:
San Diego Regional
Record: 9-8-1
High Score: QF4-2: 10-4 (Win)

LA Regional
Record: 13-4-1
High Score: S2M1: 13-6 (Win)

Newton Divison
Record: 13-1-3
High Score: S1M1: 19-11 (Win) & FM3: 19-11 (Win)

Einstein
Record: 4-1-0
High Score: FM1: 16-14 (Win) & FM2: 16-13 (Win)

Season Record
39-14-5

Robot:
Hang? No
Over the Bump? Yes
Through the tunnel? Yes
Drivetrain: 4 CIM 6WD 2 Speed Transmission
Special Notes: CAN bus system, Auto for all 3 zones

Pictures:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rickandr...43122200751890
http://picasaweb.google.com/rickandr...26787079493186

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 573, The Mech Warriors scouting info:

Events Attended:

Ann Arbor District
Champions (16-3-1)
Alliance 2 captain, 3rd seed

Troy District
Semifinalists (10-6-0)
3rd overall pick, 11th seed

Michigan State Championship
Quarterfinalists (9-5-0)
Alliance 4 captain, 5th seed

Curie Division
Quarterfinalists (9-5-0)
11th overall pick, 12th seed

Season record: 44-19-1

High score: 19-14 (w) Curie quarterfinal 4.2



Robot specs:

Drivetrain:
4 wheel tank drive with mechanum wheels
8 feet per second

Kicker:
Variable speed rotating kicker
Ability to score from all three zones

Hanging:
No ability to hang: we can score as many, if not more points without hanging in the last 20 seconds.

Autonomous:
We have ten autonomous programs, including multiple programs for far, mid, and near zones. We can also block 469 from getting into the tunnel.

Other notes:
We are strictly a tunnel bot with a very low ground clearance. We have only been pushed on top of a ball twice.

We designed our robot with the rulebook in front of us, so we never get penalties for robot design flaws and rarely get penalties for gameplay.

We currently do not know how we are going to set up our drive team with regard to this event. The current idea that is going around is that we will swap drive team members, but we will keep somebody with experience on the field. If we do end up as an alliance captain or getting picked, we will put our best drivers in and do our best.

The most balls we have scored at once is five.

Our bumper design allows us to switch bumpers in around 30 seconds for quick turnaround. Our plexiglass lid on the top of our robot has quick release hinges and surgical tubing for quick and easy access to the electronics box.

WE HAVE NEVER BROKEN YET THIS YEAR! It got very boring in our pits.

Our team is full of spirit and pride. Our robot is almost completely student built and mentor supervised. We have a corner of a classroom to work in; no shop. This has been our best season in our nine year history, so we are extremely proud of our accomplishments.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Jeremypg399, do you want us to update our posts with offseason stuff and post reminders here? (at TARDEC, we got a second suspension plus went to the semis)

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Although I wasn't planning on that, That would be good.

I didn't plan on this as some IRI teams, 399 included, don't go to offseasons (Besides IRI, of course!).

Question: is TBA listing Offseasons this year? I know they did in previous years, but I didn't see anything about 2010.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

You want stuff from off-seasons too?

TARDEC IGVC:
8-4 quals
#1 seed (also #1 in hanging and coopertition points)
6-0 in elims
Winner
Best match: 17-6 WIN finals1 (33, 2137, 66 vs 51, 469, 245)

You already know the robot features from above.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

TARDEC/IGVC: (7-5-1) Semifinalists (lost to eventual winner 33, 66, and 2137). Highest scoring match: 17-13 W (tied for highest score on a side)

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 1640, Sab-BOT-age

Events Attended:
Finger Lakes Regional
Philadelphia Regional (Semifinalists, Xerox Creativity Award)
- PA Robot Challenge (Semifinalists, GP Award)
- Monty Madness (Quaterfinalists)
- Bridgewater Raritan Battle Royale (Semifinalists, Engineering Excellence Award)

Highest Scored Match:
Philadelphia Regional, Qual 55, 9-1, WIN
Philadelphia Regional, Qual 65, 8-4, LOSS

Season Record: 10-12-1

Robot
Does your Robot hang? No, but we usually score enough to make up for it.
Over the bump? quite well, and we've never even come close to tipping.
Through the tunnel? without issue
Drivetrain specs? 4-wheel independent, continuous-turn pivot drive. CIM drive, window motor steering. Crab, snake, and aim (rotate around ball) modes. (Won Xerox Creativity at the Philly Regional)
Special notes? (Hang time, position, driver changes from competitions, preferred field placement):
Can start (and move to!) in any zone.
Very good near-zone scoring and mid-field clearing/scoring (we even have a mirror to see balls hidden by the bump).
Excellent defense, both out-maneuvering and out-pushing (just ask 341;)). Kicker will clear at least 1 bump if not 2, and we've scored from the far zone.
Our lead driver has driven for 2 years now, and our back-up will have 2 off-season competitions before IRI and drove some last year. Both our coaches have been on the drive team for 4 years (one as a driver for 3).
Our human players have never gotten a penalty. The robot has incurred 2 penalties in 23 matches.

Thanks for assembling all this!

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Another update...

GREEN - Means up to date, complete
ORANGE - Means no incomplete or out of date
BLACK- Means I have ZERO info

10/82 teams with All info in.
12%

If you are shown in ORANGE or BLACK, post your info here,
If you are shown in GREEN, thank you very much!

I have some info on:
67--They defeated us in Newton QF's, I had to research them!
330--Pit and Arena scouting in the Arizona Regional
359--Same as 330
469--I've heard great things about their bot
980--Same as 330 & 359
1592--Pit and Arena scouting from the Colorado Regional

330, 359, 980, and 1592 just need to inform of any changes, deeper descriptions of their bots would also be nice.:D

Everyone else in orange, I have your match scores.

If you don't want to reveal your team's info, I respect your privacy, just shoot me a PM saying you don't want to, or with the info there.

App updates:
The Fourth of July release date is still on. In the next couple weeks, I'll show the other scouts on 399 the app.
I had another idea:

Perferred Starting zone. By the autonomous modes you have, I put you into 4 categories:
NEAR
MID
FAR
ANY

If there is anything different, post here.

-Jeremy

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 1625 WINNOVATION

Events Attended:

-Kansas City Regional
-Finalist
-Engineering Excellence Award
-Record:12-4-1
-2nd Alliance Captain

-Midwest Regional
-Semifinalist
-Regional Chairman's Award
-Record:10-4-0
-2nd Alliance Captain

-Galileo Division
-Winner
-Division Winner
-Record:13-3-0
-3rd Alliance Captain

-Einstein Field
-Semifinalist
-Record:1-2-0


Highest Scoring Matches:

Galileo Semifinal 2 Match # 2
-1625, 2056, 3138 vs. 78, 51, 2122
-20-9 Win

Einstein Semifinal 1 Match # 2
-1625, 2056, 3138, vs. 67, 294, 177
-22-14 Win (Highest scoring match on Einstein)

Season Record: 36-13-1

Robot Specs:

Drivetrain:
-Six Wheel Coaxial Swerve Drive
-13 Feet Per Second

Kicker:
-Variable Tension Kicker
-Cam Style Release Mechanism
-Can Score From Every Zone

Roller:
-Pinch Roller on a Hinge
-Top Roller Made of Trackball Bladder
-Bottom Roller Made of Blob Tape(Electrical Sealant Tape)
-Run By a Polycord Slip Clutch

Hanging:
-Side Pole Hang
-Gas Shock Powered
-Average Lineup Time 5 Seconds
-Average Hang Time Zero Seconds :rolleyes:

Bump:
-Yes

Tunnel:
-Yes

Autonomous
-Auto From All 3 Zones
-Can Score From All 3 Zones

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Wow. In all the work I've been doing to put this together, I've forgotten to post my own team's info.

Team 399
Eagle Robotics

Events:

Arizona Regional
Quarterfinalists
5-7-0
Innovation in Control Award

Colorado Regional
Semifinalists
9-4-1
Engineering Inspiration Award

Newton Division
Quarterfinalists
6-3-3

Season's Highest Scored Match
Newton Division QF1 M1
399-308-2619 v 67-294-177
14-18 loss

Robot Info

Hang:
No

Bump:
Yes

Tunnel:
Yes

Drivetrain:
6 Wheel Drive Tractions

Notes:
Perferred Starting zone: MID
Autonomous and scoring in mid and near zones. Can score from all zones
Deflector Shield, Effective in any zone, Excellent Feeder, moderate ball control, great pushing power(nearly tipped 330 in Arizona), CAN Bus.
Bungee Cord Deflector Shield can feed balls into the near zone, Articulates.

Picture:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35391


-----------
Update:
The app is complete.
I will just send it off to a few other scouts get any feedback.

I am assembling a PDF of the information I have gathered.

I might start sending PMs to people... Or not... I'll have to see.

If you have any scouting data on any other IRI teams, PM me. I'll accept data back to MSC and the Championship Event*

*Reason:
MSC and Championship teams have already attended at least 2(some cases 1) events and have gotten their strategies/mechanisms decided

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Is anyone still interested? I am getting the feeling that I am doing this in vain...:(

I have alot of the stuff done. I just need more info.

Like I said, I'll take information back to MI State Champs and the Championship Event.

I'll take a look at 1114's scouting database and get what I can from there. If you have any scouting info from any event, send it to me in a PM.

I'll try as hard as I can to get this done by July 4th. I might push it back a week if things don't go as planned.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

What data do you need? What numerical data do you want? Obviously I can't do much to tell you about specific mechanisms but any numbers you want I can get you if you ask.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I have many teams' records, events, and matches. The info I really need is about the robot, as it isn't really on the internet.

Thanks, Andrew, for the offer.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 2949 PWNAGE


Events Attended:

Midwest Regional
-Finalist
-Engineering Excellence Award
-Record:11-4-2
-4th Alliance Captain
-Defeated HOF team 111 Wildstang, and Galileo Champion 1625 Winnovationin in the semi-finals

Greater Toronto Regional
-Semi-finalist
-Record:7-4-3
-Lost to team 1114 Simbotics and team 2056 OP Robotics in semi-finals
-We were the closest team in regional play to defeating Simbotics, we tied them 10-10 in the last qualifying match



Highest Scoring Matches:

Midwest Regional:
-Qualifying Match #59 W 12-3
-Qualifying Match #65 W 12-4

Greater Toronto Regional:
-Semi-Final Match 1 L 15-11



Season Record: 18-8-5
2 Events Attended



Robot Specs:

Drivetrain:
-4 Wheel Tank Drive
-Omni Wheels in the back for smooth turn
-Grippy wheels in front for Power
-8 feet/second

Kicker:
-High Power Kicker
-Cam Release Mechanism
-Can Score From Every Zone
-Can Kick once every second- no reload time

Ball Control:
-Vacuum
-Holds onto the ball and never lets go until its kicked
-Lasts the whole Match
-Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC

Hanging:
-Hook that telescopes out, and winchs up.
-Efficient, only failed twice the whole season.
-Can also work as a good defence mechanism
Hangs from the side/bump

Bump:
-Yes, and doesn't crash around

Tunnel:
-Yes

Autonomous
-Auto From All 3 Zones
-Can Score From All 3 Zones

WE ARE ALSO THE ONLY TEAM THAT CAN BLOCK 469
WE CAN REACH UP AND DEFLECT BALLS AWAY FROM THEIR MECHANISM AND TOWARDS OUR OWN SIDE.

This is our second year in FRC and we are located in Batavia, IL. Just an hour west of Chicago.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Legally? How?

OP: If you need info on the rest of the teams, I can give you unofficial, no-guarantees info that's as good as my memory.


News to me.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I think there were a lot of teams that had effective vacuums, but they accepted the rollers after they saw how dominant they were.

- Sunny

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Well, I suppose just like 469 gets, we would get 1 penalty for extending beyond the height parameters for the normal robot size configuration, but the penalty that we get and the penalty they get would be cancelled out. Other then that, we are not breaking any rules by doing this. We would simply be able to extend our arm that we hang with because it can extend at an angle, which would therefore allow us to block balls above them and deflect the balls towards our alliances offensive zone.


I said effective. 2791 had a record of 15-12-5. They averaged 4.4 goals per match per alliance.They also did not ever make it to the finals. Finally, it does not look like they can hang. 2949 pwnage had a record of 18-8-5, we averaged 6.7 goals per match per alliance, made it all the way to the finals while facing harder opponents then that of 2791, and also can hang.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnageNick
Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC
I think there were a lot of teams that had effective vacuums, but they accepted the rollers after they saw how dominant they were.

- Sunny

This is very true Sunny. A good example is Wildstang. We went to their practice driving event before shipping day, and they saw our vacuum and thought it was really cool. Sure enough when we showed up for the Midwest Regional, they showed up with a vacuum. Although there's didn't end up working as well. Lets just say that it felt really good to defeat them in the semi-finals.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I suppose you know how 469 works then? I suppose you also know the rules too?

Extending beyond the size limits is NOT a 1 point penalty it is a yellow card. 469 gets away with it because you are allowed to extend when in contact with your own tower. Additionally, 469 gets the ball nearly immediately off the return. The only way for you to touch the ball before them would be to grab near the ball return chute. A red card... So, you are still the "only one who can beat 469" eh? Sounds like a good way of getting DQ'd to me.


Or, how to use a dictionary... Effective does not mean best. You may have sucked more but that does not mean you were the ONLY effective person with a vacuum.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

I'm sorry I misspoke. Yellow Card NOT penalty. But a yellow card does not get you DQ'd, not does it lose you a point. And as far as being able to block them, there far enough under the ball return that our arm can be right over their catcher and deflect them away without touching the ball return, therefore NOT resulting in a DQ. And I never said taht we were the only ones that could beat 469. I said we were the only ones that could block them (meaning their ball return actions).

Don't question whether I know the rules or not, you just have to think about what exactly each rule will then mean to the action your robot makes.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Well, if you want to call out my team's design as ineffective, I'll go ahead and address those points.

1. The mechanism is effective (I assumed "effective vacuum" meant "the vacuum controlled balls well"). Here's a picture of the robot holding the ball.

2. At WPI we were not at top form by any stretch, so I generally consider Connecticut performance to be indicative of my team's robot's true strength. At CT, our team's alliances averaged 6.3 goals per match, not counting a few missed DOGMA goals in the semis. We played opponents roughly as tough as you guys (177, 1124, 694, 175, 383, 1501 vs 16, 1732, 1625, 111, 71, 2949).

3. There are many, many, many effective vacuum robots in FRC. 78 was the #2 seed on Galileo and was just inches away from winning GSR. 20 (vac not shown) won WPI with one that they ultimately replaced, and they helped 2791 with their vacuum design. 25 had by far the best vacuum of 2010, as it could grab balls from more than 6 inches away due to some magic I hope to understand someday. 571 wasn't particularly effective on field due to a lot of bad luck, but they had a quality vacuum and had the gracious professionalism to give a unit to 2791 as an upgrade for CT when we had an unfortunate malfunction. There are many, many vacuums in FIRST that are both effective in function, and mounted on robots that are effective in competition. Did you know that 25 lost only one match until the Championship?

Also, just a fair warning. Your anti-469 strategy will get you a Yellow Card your first match and disqualify you every other match (Pro Tip: Two Yellow Cards = 1 Red Card). You guys have an effective robot otherwise, so I would focus on doing what you do well rather than breaking the rules and calling out other teams.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

First off, I agreed with Sunny that while we were not the only team with an effective vacuum before, we discussed that teams still switched the the backroller/pinchroller idea because it seemed to be working better and was more popular. And if your vacuum provides the best results (aka winning matches, scoring well, playoff runs) and that that was the teams goal- to get the best results, then effective would be the right word.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 1519 was 34-11-3. They averaged 7.7 points per match per alliance. They won 1 regional and were finalists at the other. They were the 5th seed in Archimedes.

Team 78 was 20-8-6. They average 7.8 points per match per alliance. They were finalists in 1 regional and 2nd seed in Galileo. They can hang.

Team 25 was 41-5-2. They averaged 10.6 points per match per alliance. They won 2 regionals and were championship division semifinalists. They can hang. They beat your highest score of 12 in 15 different matches.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

You are right of course, a Yellow Card does not mean you are DQ'd immediately. It means if you do it again you are DQ'd. So, let us put you in an Elim match against 469: Match 1 - Yellow Card. Let us assume you win. Match 2 - Red Card for trying it AGAIN. L (In the elims your entire alliance is DQ'd remember?) Match 3 - Now you have to play them without the ability to "stop" them. Seems to me your "strategy" in addition to being half baked is not very effective. Amazing what happens when you think more than one match at a time isn't it?

As long as you demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the rules I will continue to question whether you know them and will treat you accordingly.

Edit, while we are talking about it. 2337 had a vacuum. They also had a roller. They were 40-18-6 and had a high score of 19. They also hang... and redirect... yup, sorry, not effective... Guess Ann Arbor was a fluke.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

First off, I was not looking to call out your team Chris. From what I've seen your team looks pretty awesome and I hope that some day our teams will meet (although we are somewhat far away from eachother). Some one presented me with an argument with your team as proof so I compared our teams. It was nothing against your team at all.

And a question, only because I did not attend Atlanta, though I don't know if you did, but how many of the teams that you mentioned did not end up switching to a backroller/pinchroller?

And finally as far as the 469 topic goes, I wan't saying it would be used every match, but if really needed, it is indeed possible with our robot. I was just throwing it out there purely because there are not many other teams who even have a chance of blocking them.

PS- Thank you for calling our robot an "effective robot". That's very appreciated. I would say that your's is too.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Joe, thanks for bringing this to my attention. Besides 25, did 1519 and 78 keep those vacuums throughout the season?

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Okay Andrew, I only said from the beginning that we had the possibility of blocking them in that manner. I never said that it would be a permanent fix to 469's awesomeness. It was a helpful piece of knowledge to throw into the scouting report. Seriously, how many other teams do you know of that even have the possibility of blocking 469?

What a great FIRST attitude.

Quote: "They also had a roller." That would make quite a big difference wouldn't it.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

By the way:
Team 20: changed to a roller
team 571: has 2 wheels in front to make the ball roll backwards-a varied version of the backroller
team 2337: like I said before, they have a roller with it as well. That being said, I do applaud 2337 on their suspension hanging. That is pretty awesome.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Also, since your missing some info, I can provide information on:
16 Bomb Squad
71 Team Hammond
111 Wildstang
1732 Hilltoppers
1114 Simbotics
2056 OP Robotics

Some random facts about the IRI list:
39% or 32 out of the 82 teams won at least one regional.
70% or 57 out of the 82 teams went to Atlanta.
65% or 37 out of the 57 teams participated in the divisional elimination rounds.
63% or 15 out of the 24 division finalist teams are going to IRI.
66% or 8 out of the 12 teams that were in Einstein are going to IRI.
Two of the second place teams in Einstein, 1114 and 469, will be at IRI.
Two of the teams from the champion alliance, 67 and 294, will be at IRI.
13% or 11 out of the 82 teams have 40 or more wins on the season.
27% or 22 out of the 82 teams have 35 or more wins on the season.
33% or 27 out of the 82 teams have 30 or more wins on the season.
46% or 38 out of the 82 teams have 25 or more wins on the season.
57% or 47 out of the 82 teams have 20 or more wins on the season.
21% or 17 out of the 82 teams have an average record under .500
Finally, the team that will be traveling the farthest to IRI this year is from... you guessed it Hawaii; Team 359 Hawaiian Kids.

There are some random fun facts about the list.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

from an observers point of view. I'm only giving the info about their robots because you can find their matches and stuff on TBA, and doing all of their events and such would take forever.

16- BOMB SQUAD

Drive Train:
-3 Wheel swerve
-2 in front, both swerve modules
-1 wheel centered in back, also swerve module
-pretty fast, good maneuverability
-might be able to be pushed around by the bigger bots out there.

Ball Control:
-Pinchroller
-It works well- will only be bested by very few other pinchrollers out there

Kicking Mechanism:
-Good kicker.
-From what I remember it was not adjustable power
-Good distance and accuracy

Hanging:
-That had an arm that had 80/20 pieces slide out
-Hooked on top and pulled up
-I'd estimate about 10 seconds

Autonomous:
-Again, from what I remember, they had different autonomous programs for each section, correct me if I'm wrong though
-They did always seem to score in autonomous though.

If want to know anything else about 16 Bomb Squad, ask and I'll see if I know.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 111- Wildstang

Drive Train:
-4 wheel swerve
-very maneuverable
-pretty good speed
-won't be pushing too many people around though

Ball Control:
-Copied team 2949 for Midwest regional and had a vacuum.
-Wasn't built strong enough and wasn't too effective.
-Switched to a backroller (or is it a pinchroller?) for Atlanta
-Heard its decent but that they weren't able to work out the kinks well enough
-That may not be the case anymore

Kicking Mechanism:
-I'm pretty sure they do not have an adjustable power kicker.
-Their kicker is pretty good
-Won't be the best on the field, but also won't dissapoint

Hanging:
Wildstang does not hang.

Autonomous:
I'm pretty sure they have multiple programs for each section.
They usually either score or at least get the balls to the offensive zone.

ANy questions on 111 Wildstang, I'll see if I can answer them.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 71- Team Hammond

Drive Train:
-sorry, I can't quite remember what their drive train was like, and there aren't any pics. I do remember that whatever they had, it was pretty good. It won't disappoint is what I'm saying I suppose.

Ball Control:
-I seem to remember a backroller
-I think it was decent/pretty good

Kicking Mechanism:
-kicked decently far
-I don't think it was variable power

Hanging:
Tall Pole on robot
Extended at end to hook on and pull up
Kinda looks like a candy cane.
Took em about 10-15 seconds depending on how long their lining up took.

Autonomous:
Sorry again, don't really remember

Team 71 is probably the one I remember the least, so if you have more questions, I probably can't help too much more then that.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 1732- Hilltoppers

Drive Train:
It was either 4 or 6 wheel tank
pretty fast
but not weak
still maneuverable

Ball Control:
-I kind of pinchroller, except with a bar on bottom, I'm pretty sure they had a wall at the back.
-They grabbed balls well

Kicking Mechanism:
-I'm pretty sure they have an adjustable power kicker
-Good distance
-Good accuracy too
-Just a great kicker

Hanging:
Hilltoppers do not hang.

Autonomous:
Had different programs for each section.
Ususally scored something in autonomous.

Any more questions, I should be able to answer

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Its a backspin roller
and they have adjustable kicking power

and i'd suggest leaving these teams blank and letting them answer if they'd like, rather than providing incorrect information

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

1114- Simbotics

Drive Train:
-8 wheel tank
-pneumatic tires
-bump easily
-tons of power
-pushes other bots easily
-good speed too

Ball Control:
-Pinch Roller
-Works fantastic
-Would drive up to a ball and would grab it like a magnet

Kicking Mechanism:
adjustable power kicking
long distance
very accurate
just really good.

Hanging:
-Probably best hanging in the whole field, probably whole FRC.
-Takes about 4 seconds
-Clamps bar and rotates up
-Fastest out there

Autonomous:
-Different programs for each section
-Always scores in autonomous

This team is fantastic. Any more questions, ask and I can answer. But just assume that they'll be one of the teams to beat for sure.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35309
if you look in this pic, the roller is the white cylinder, and there's another bar below it which is the "pinch bar". The kicker is under it.

Unless they have changed since Midwest...

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

The picture shows a pinchroller, and thats what they had at Midwest,so unless its changed since then.


and I said at the beginning of the post, I might not be completely right. If I say something incorrect, then correct me. There's nothing wrong with a team looking for some scouting information, so I'm throwing in what I've seen from the regionals we've been to. Every little bit helps.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

If you are unsure on a detail, dont post that detail, at this moment in time I am conversing with a student on 16 and its a backspin roller, always has been.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Thanks Nick, the information you are posting will help many teams, but yes we have always had a backspin roller, and variable kicking power.....

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Team 2056- OP Robotics

Drive Train:
-It's a tank, but I don't remember how many wheels.
-It was a good drive train that maneuvered well and can keep up with hard action

Ball Control:
-pinchroller
-very good

Kicking Mechanism:
-Good Distance
-Good Accuracy
-One of the better out of the group

Hanging:
-Arm that has 2 wheels
-tower bar would go inbetween wheels, and they would drive up the pole
-took about 5-7 seconds
-might be the next best hanging device after 1114

Autonomous:
-Different programs for each section
-Always scored in autonomous

That's all the teams I can give you info on. I hope that took out a little chunk of that list. Were trying to make a scouting list as well, so I know its difficult. At least, just assume that about all of the teams will be at least good if not better.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Thanks Austin, my mistake then. Then what is that bar under the roller in the picture. I know the kicker is the one on the bottom, so whats the thing in the middle?

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

It is a Backstop idler bar, that stops the ball from going into the robot too far. It also spins with the ball so that the ball is always spinning while we back up and rotate, making it hard to lose the ball...

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

2056 does not have a pinch roller. It is a version of a backspin roller but with a really cool feature. It extends outside of the robot for 2 seconds then goes back in for two seconds.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Actually, I know plenty of teams that can block 469. 573 was the first team to block them from the tunnel. Other teams joined in, including but not limited to: 1023, 141, 2337, 66, and quite a bit more. If they get in the tunnel, there's another way to block them. You park your robot perpendicular to theirs and drive back and forth as the balls run down the chute. I've seen 217, 27, 33, and others do this quite a bit, and it is effective. Just look at 217 in the MSC finals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR3l_d8YPtA

We were at the Tardec Invitational at IGVC three weeks ago and there were only a couple matches where 469 started a cycle in the tunnel. The rest of their matches, they were blocked. They ended up in the bottom half of the rankings.

Today at MARC, it was the same story. They were blocked quite a bit. Actually, 1718 pushed them over a bump in one of their first matches.

Team 573 has versed 469 six times. We have blocked them from the tunnel four times. One of the two unsuccessful attempts was due to our C-Rio and the other was a misalignment.

tl;dr version: Blocking 469 isn't new, and there are many teams that have done it before.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Sorry, I suppose I wasn't clear when I said this. I meant how many teams do you know of that can block them from above. Of course you can block them from getting them in the tunnel or block the goals from the balls, but I was just talking about completely altering the balls completely away from them. The tunnel way is good, but one of your alliances robots is wasted doing that all match long. The blocking the goals way doesn't always work because 469's alliance can have a robot block you. Also, if 469 does give up on the ball return, they still have a pretty good ball control and kicker. The way I'm talking about defending them would stop the stream of balls, and force them to stay in the tunnel, preventing them from doing anything else, such as kicking and scoring like a normal bot.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Ah. I didn't notice at the midwest regional that it was an idle free rolling bar. That makes more sene now. Very neat unique spin on the backspin idea (not to be punny lol)

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

That's odd, considering they gave 2791 their spare vacuum and we competed with them when they had vacuums, twice.

Zero. As previously said, twice, this is illegal. Also, nothing stops 469 from disengaging their locks and leaving the tunnel to play in the mid field.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Thank you guys so much. All of this will help greatly. Keep it up!

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

(First, I want every to keep in mind that I am no big genius when it comes to robots, and I don't want to get involved in an argument whatsoever AT ALL.)

pwnageNick, I think what you are doing helps jeremy a lot, and I appreciate that!

However, while some people may view this in a different view, I view this more as an invasion of privacy. I don't see anything that the teams said it was OK for you to post the information. In fact, I think they would say its OK if a member of that team posted it themselves, rather than a person on another team.

If you would like to keep the spirit of gracious professionalism, I would suggest contacting the teams in anyway and asking if they would like to have their information given out. Then I would post the permission and how you managed to get it. That's what I would do.

pwnageNick, please don't take this as an insult. Take it more as a... um..."member who has a concern about your actions."

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

idk. I suppose they must have had a vacuum and switched to this baskspin wheel thing later. At least, that's what thr picture shows on TBA.

There's already been a discussion about this further up the thread. Even though it would only be legal once, it is still helpful to have the option of doing it. And it seems that no one can think of a team that can block them from above like that. And also, if our robot is behind them (but not touching them, because that would be a red card) if they do decide to leave the tunnel they can't because were in the way behind them, and they wouldn't have enough room to get out of the tunnel and swerve sideways out (which idk if they even have a swerve drive).

That's all the info I got. I figured I would help out, since I'm looking to try and put a scouting sheet together as well.

To be honest, I'm just trying to help Jeremy the best I can. And I don't feel that anyone should have to get a team's permission before discussing said team in a discussion thread. That's kind of the point of ChiefDelphi, to be able to have open conversations about topics. Jeremy was looking for information about teams, so since some of those teams had not responded, I threw information out there about some teams that I was familiar with. Did I have all of my info 100% right? No, but I said right before I started that things might have changed or I might have seen something wrong, so if I do put something wrong, correct me. Even if the information you have is small in amount, its huge in helpfulness.

And don't worry, I'm not looking to argue with you, and I didn't take it as an insult.I get where your coming from.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

After reading the past few posts, I retract what I said about posting info. Feel free to send me the info in a PM, I shall only post the info here if the team gives permission.
I apologise for any arguments that have been sparked. I also apologise to anyone who is somehow offended by this.

Since the team records and events are freely available, I can distribute team numbers. Then, people can search for that info and lighten the load for me. PM me if you are interested.

Also, If you have the standings and/or rankings from offseasons(TARDEC, MARC,etc), please PM me. TBA doesn't seem to have them this year.

This project wasn't meant to be an invasion of privacy, but a tool that all teams are free to use.

Thank you,
Jeremy.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Yes, both 1519 and 78 kept their vacuums throughout the season, and have continued to use vacuums at offseason events. These have been quite effective. At all of the tournaments both 1519 and 78 have attended this year (excepting the Championship) either their alliance or our alliance has won the tournament (GSR and two off-season events.)

A little history: we originally planned to use a full-width roller for ball possession. However, when the rule update came out clarifying the rules against possessing more than one ball simultaneously, we decided that a full-width roller would be likely to incur penalties and decided we needed to make a narrower roller. (For more information see http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=15 ) However, we later learned that a vacuum would hold the ball much more effectively than a roller -- in short, the advantage of a roller is that it could be made very wide, while the advantage of a vacuum is that it could hold the ball more tightly. Given our perspective that a full-width roller would incur rule violations, we went with the vacuum.

Now, having attended two regionals and the Championship event and seeing how the relevant rules have been interpreted and which are most strictly enforced, we likely would have been better off with a full-width roller that was slightly less able to retain a ball than a vacuum. We are considering replacing our vacuum with a full-width ball possession roller for IRI in order to acquire balls more quickly, even if it gives up a little bit in ball retention strength.

Nonetheless, we've been able to make pretty good use of our vacuum ball possession, particularly as it functions in conjunction with a pair of "ball shepherding belts" which roll balls in towards the vacuum when the robot is in contact with the ball. (See photo at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35535).

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

UPDATE:

I am going to delay the release until FRIDAY. Several personal delays have prevented me from completing it.

I just want to get a little more information on the teams.

Can I ask some people to PM other teams? If they were posted by pwnageNick, ask for thier permission and any missing details. If they weren't posted at all, ask them if they would like to post.

There are several teams I have already(330,359,980,1592). If you are on the team, may I have your permission to post this? Not here in the forums, but in the scouting document/app i am releasing.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Jeremy, you are more than welcome to post what you have about our team's robot and if you need anymore info you can just message me on here

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

And I wanted to update our robot information... I had said that it may turn into an eight wheel drive, and it indeed will@be an eight wheel drive for IRI :D

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

A question... someone was saying that pwnageNick's strategy would get his team a yellow card. Since eliminations are best of 3, he could try it once, but the second time he would get a red card. So for the 3rd game, if he tried it yet again, would he get a yellow card or a red card? 2 yellow cards = 1 red card, but I don't know what happens when you get three yellow cards.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

You get more red cards.

The intent of the rule is not to get Yellow Cards. There are far, far better "anti-469" strategies; I suggest you use them.

Re: Pre-event scouting--IRI
 

Please do not interpret my post as promoting pwnageNick's idea; I was only asking a question about the rules.