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-   -   Crazy Drive Train Ideas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86059)

JamesCH95 16-09-2010 11:34
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent B (Post 974311)
I know the correct usage of power, the problem is so many people don't so for the average person it seems to have a tendency to have qualities of semantics. Gotta love common english language and its distortion of terms to mean other things.
If you know how to use it properly then do not perpetuate its misuse! That is how common English screws things up.

Trent B 16-09-2010 11:52
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
I use it correctly, 2 years of physics does that to someone :D

There are also always the crazy drivetrains where CIMs and Fisher Price motors are all connected together through a gearbox using planetary gearboxes or some other method to constrain the FP output to the same as a CIMs output RPM. As far as I can tell that would probably be the most powerful setup you could get. Though you would have to rely on Densos, Pneumatics and Globes (if they brought them back) for other components of your drive train.

Mageofdancingdr 17-09-2010 09:18
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 974307)
The pneumatic cyllinder feasibility problem appeared simpler to me when I thought about it a few months ago. Simply add it in as a "turbo boost" to an existing drive train via a 1-way clutch or paulet system. Linking the two rear drive train axles together with 1 shaft (or 2 shafts + differential) would easily allow for this functionality.

Once implemented, we can analyze the weight: it's about ~15lbs extra, just for a brief turbo boost once or twice in a match. YMMV, but it wasn't worth it for me to investigate further.
well, this is what preliminary discussions (me and my friends talking at lunch) usually boiled down to, so if it doesn't seem feasible it's okay being dropped. Plus, I'm the programmer, so I'll just make up the innovative edge on our robot with sensors and functions.

Ether 17-09-2010 09:33
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mageofdancingdr (Post 974427)
3.1415926535897932384626433832
3.1415926535897932384626433833 :)




JesseK 17-09-2010 09:44
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Understanding it's still a whacky thought for potentially great innovation (weight aside), the process of implementing it is invaluable. It's probably best done in the offseason though so your competitions have less chance for failure.

Another idea to link a 'turbo boost' to an existing drive train would be feasible if the drive train implemented a car-style setup with a differential that is driven by a hybrid planetary gearbox. By 'hybrid' I mean that there is 1 output and 2 inputs to the planetary gearbox, much like what is seen in hybrid cars.

This would eliminate the need for a shifting transmission since the 'turbo' gives the extra power. It may also free up CIMs for use in other systems because an alternative power source is available for the drive train. Depending on the team, that may be worth it even during competition season.

gblake 17-09-2010 18:49
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
How about if pneumatics are used to drive a large plate full of small spikes into the carpet under/beside the robot and consequently either keep the robot from being pushed out of position, or "inexorably" move it forward by out-pushing another robot. The large plate(s) plus the many, many small spikes are a way to get more "friction" than is available from gravity pulling wheels into the carpet.

The plate has to be large enough to spread the force over enough carpet to avoid damaging a FIRST FRC field. The spikes have to be numerous enough and small enough to avoid damaging an FRC field.

The lateral/pushing force generated/resisted has to be high enough to be useful (at the moment IDK what that value would be).

Instead of trying to use pneumatics to set the plate(s) and move the bot, the mechanism could perhaps rely on a high-torque motor (the pneumatics set/lift the plate. The motor moves the robot relative to the plate.).

Two plates could be alternated to move any given distance (at some slow-ish speed) by putting one down, then moving the max distance possible using one plate, then putting the second plate down and transferring the forces onto it, then picking the first plate up.... Lather, rinse, repeat.

Of course if the FRC game in question (Overdrive, for example) doesn't encourage pushing contests - Never mind. :)

Blake

AdamHeard 17-09-2010 18:49
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 974430)
Understanding it's still a whacky thought for potentially great innovation (weight aside), the process of implementing it is invaluable. It's probably best done in the offseason though so your competitions have less chance for failure.

Another idea to link a 'turbo boost' to an existing drive train would be feasible if the drive train implemented a car-style setup with a differential that is driven by a hybrid planetary gearbox. By 'hybrid' I mean that there is 1 output and 2 inputs to the planetary gearbox, much like what is seen in hybrid cars.

This would eliminate the need for a shifting transmission since the 'turbo' gives the extra power. It may also free up CIMs for use in other systems because an alternative power source is available for the drive train. Depending on the team, that may be worth it even during competition season.

Another possibly simpler mechanism is the clutch used on nitro and gas Rc cars.

A hollow round (called hte clutch bell) has a gear that drives the gearbox, inside the hollow round is a device driven by the motor with clutch pads sprung loaded in. As the rotational speed of the motor increases, centripidal force causes the clutch pads to move outward and engage the clutch bell. Solves the direction issue, and could be done with COTS components, many larger cars certainly put out more power and torque than a CIM.

This would be better suitted for adding in hte 5th CIM to the drive.

With all that said, I believe a boost is a poor choice to just adding more motors to drive. And with that said, I believe adding more motors in drive is a poor choice compared to adding shifters ;).

Joe Ross 17-09-2010 19:10
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gblake (Post 974476)
Two plates could be alternated to move any given distance (at some slow-ish speed) by putting one down, then moving the max distance possible using one plate, then putting the second plate down and transferring the forces onto it, then picking the first plate up.... Lather, rinse, repeat.
Such a robot is the reason for most of the current traction rules. Team 71 in 2002. Another video with a few shots of the walking. Picture

Quote:
<R08> ROBOT wheels, tracks, and other parts intended to provide traction on the carpet may be purchased or fabricated (“traction devices” include all parts of the ROBOT that are designed to transmit any propulsive and/or braking forces between the ROBOT and the FIELD). In no case will traction devices that damage the carpet or other playing surfaces be permitted. Traction devices shall not have surface features such as metal, sandpaper, hard plastic studs, cleats, or other attachments. Anchors (i.e. devices that are deployed/used to keep one’s ROBOT in one place and prevent if from being moved by another ROBOT) shall not use metal in contact with the carpet to “stay put.” Gaining traction by using adhesives or Velcro-like fastener material is not allowed.

gblake 17-09-2010 20:59
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross (Post 974482)
Such a robot is the reason for most of the current traction rules. Team 71 in 2002. Another video with a few shots of the walking. Picture
Thanks - Apparently it's been too long since I last read the FRC rules end to end.

Katie_UPS 18-09-2010 00:48
Re: Crazy Drive Train Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjenks548 (Post 974089)
How big of wheels? we had 12" this year and i think 107(maybe a different team I'm going off memory) had the same ones too.
Remember the Big wheel trikes that were cool in the 90s? Something like that. :D


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